258 replies to this topic

[Elder Thorn]

crowkiller, on 21 April 2013 - 11:06 AM, said:

we did 8 mans for a bit but since the game only matches premade 8 man vs premade 8 man it kinda sucked.

i know i know, offtopic but:
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[Agent of Change]

it would seem that a lot of people are mad at robots in this thread.

Don't be mad at robots Bro.

I promise not to laugh when I cap tonight just to make sure i'm not trolling, can i be smug or is that still too close?

This Post brought to you by
The Post Lerian Jihad
"We Post Better than You"

Edited by Agent of Change, 22 April 2013 - 04:51 AM.

[Red Line Pilot]

This is a team game right?

So the first thing you do when the match starts you look at the composition of your team. So you see no lights or or other fast mechs? point the rest of your team on this fact. Then try to coordinate an appropriate strategy to avoid the base cap.

It is possible, i've seen it happen in PUG matches!

[Bobzilla]

Budor, on 21 April 2013 - 11:05 AM, said:

People that do not def, do not return to base when its being capped, only run assault or slowass builds deserve to be basecapped in 10/10 games.

So noone should run a mech that doesn't go 100kph or if you don't go 100kph you should spend the match sitting in your own base. Sounds fun!!! Oh, no it doesn't. Guess that was the point of OP.

[Zerberus]

When heavies and assaults start to actually care about the information that scouts risk their lives getting for them, then lights will start to care what heavies and assaults have to say.
In 90% of my matches with the 2D I run around like an insane chicken scouting for where the other team is, report this back, and nbody cares to react.

"Entire team moving along J line to cap" (alpine)

Nobody moves

3 minutes later "Base is being captured". Entire team still where epsi would be.

"You ******* /lamers /useless cap winners"

When this stops happening in 15/20 matches, we`ll have something to talk about. But until then, shut up and L2P.

Edited by Zerberus, 22 April 2013 - 04:56 AM.

[Esplodin]

TOGSolid, on 21 April 2013 - 12:34 PM, said:

My lance is doing it Cicadas. The 3Ls beat us to the punch. DAMN YOU AGENT!

We started in Spiders, but that was stupid easy mode - 9.99 out of 10 win. Then we went to Hunchies - 9.99 out of 10 win, so still easy mode. I was honestly starting to think that the base cap warning was a hud bug for some teams. I think I even did it in a highlander one match. 54KPH for the cap win - wtf?

OP, you think losing to a base cap is boring? Well so is ridge sniping for 10 minutes before everyone runs out of gauss and shuffles for the brawl - IN THE SAME DAMN SPOTS ON THE MAP. You all know the spot for each map, which is exactly what's wrong and why antics like this WORK. Heck, I had to fight muscle memory not to pilot there as sad as that is to say. How the #$!@#%$! is that fun?

Honestly there were a few teams that got smart, defended the base and made us work for it. The surprising thing? Fun was had by both sides in those matches. You might want to try it.

[Glo Worm]

Nightcrept, on 21 April 2013 - 11:43 AM, said:

If I am in one of my lights and I know the other team is mostly larger mechs I will cap immediately.

If that makes you angry then good. Hopefully that makes you play worse.

If you walk your big stompy atlas over to stop me alone I will either kill you or run off and wait to see if you walk off again. If you stay put I will go help my team. If you move I will recap. Either way I get the win or at the least get a larger mech out of the fight.

It's called role warfare.

I picked up a CAP Accelerator just before the assault contest this weekend solely because I knew there would be a multitude of big, slow-moving mechs on the battlefield, leaving their tender, juicy base exposed. Net result 11 basecaps in 18 PUG games. Go cry somewhere else. #Winning!

[Agent of Change]

Bobzilla, on 22 April 2013 - 04:54 AM, said:

So noone should run a mech that doesn't go 100kph or if you don't go 100kph you should spend the match sitting in your own base. Sounds fun!!! Oh, no it doesn't. Guess that was the point of OP.

Because the alternative is everyone runs a Brawler sniper and waddles towards the same spot to have a the same fight every match?

but I'm thinking discussing nuance, balance, and strategy with you would be a lost cause what with your two line master work of Reductio Absurdum.

More to the point, I'll cap ya, so defend or lose.

[Rushin Roulette]

Soooo. let me see if Im getting this correctly...

You spend over half your time trying to figure out where exactly the enemy team is on the big map, set up a big fat 600+ Tonns of equipment behind cover so that you can blast them to Kingdom Come as soon as they get into your range while still wondering where they are.... Then you get the information you need which tells your WHOLE team where exactly the enemy are within 100 meters (no matter if they are under ECM cover or not) and you are COMPAINGNG EVEN MORE?

I hardly ever resort to this... but learn to play... seriously.

If you are being repeatedly rushed and capped by light mechs... why are you always rushing to the middle of the map? Dont waddle quite as far... maybe 500 meters from your base and set up camp there. This way you are close enough to your own base to respond and stomp those "cheating" light mechs while they are far away from any support. Once you have destroyed about half of the enemy mechs in the form of the lights... you will have easy pickings with the few remaining mechs.



Why do you insist on moving so far away from your own base if you;

• dont plan on capping the enemy base yourself
  
• know you are too far away from your own base to respond to any capping attempt against your own team

Edited by Rushin Roulette, 22 April 2013 - 05:06 AM.

[Agent of Change]

Also really funny story about why everyone should cap, and cap hard, until we have capped the stupid out of this game.

No *****, no *****, there I was, there I was:

I dropped with three of my buddies (between us 2 3l's, 1 Jenner, and 1 fast Wang) and we ended up on the high base in River City Night. Tennex (not name and shame) was on my team as well and he knew what i was planning as would any one with eyes on the forums.

I let out the Post Lerian War Cry and we swept into the Lower city to wrap around the back side of the citadel and then to cap. Tennex Announces on global chat that I am going to cap the enemy team so they should think about defending, I then confirm this by having a brief light-hearted exchange with him.

My lance halts in lower city for 30 seconds to observer the enemy base... it looks empty... weird we told them we were coming. So we advance across the water and line up just out side their base with our backs to the ship... ok, no trap... what the hell. We wait another full 30 seconds chatting and observing enemy fire in upper city. Finally we determine they aren't coming back, not one of them, so we roll into their base all four of us and cap uninterrupted.

Then we all mock them because we can't do anything else.

When you tell them what you are doing, when you wait to see if they will react, and then wait more because no one is that arrogant or dumb to not even check it out, visually at least, then you are dealing with people who want to lose.

Edited by Agent of Change, 22 April 2013 - 05:15 AM.

[jper4]

Red Line Pilot, on 22 April 2013 - 04:51 AM, said:

This is a team game right?

So the first thing you do when the match starts you look at the composition of your team. So you see no lights or or other fast mechs? point the rest of your team on this fact. Then try to coordinate an appropriate strategy to avoid the base cap.

It is possible, i've seen it happen in PUG matches!

over the weekend we had someone look at the composition of our team- announce "we're going to lose" and disconnected (we only had 2 assaults -counting the quitter, 4 heavies a medium and a light i think). we win 8-4. which vaguely ties into the "wait 5 minutes before cap allowed" thing- i'd say even with elo added at least a third of my matches finish in under 5 minutes (about what that one took) not capping so having to wait that long to start capping isn't going to fix much, except now the last light has to run around the map for X amount of time before the cap timer is relased which means the other team can leisurely march over to their base and wait for the light to come capping when it's "allowed" to.

if i'm in a medium and we'll have no lights i'll try to stay in the back of the formation and "pretend to be a light" on cap defense. if i'm in a heavy (i have 1 stalker in the mech bay and under 20 matches on it still, no lights at all) and i see we have med/lights on the team i'll expect them to cap defend on the bigger maps because experience has shown i can't make it back from the battle line in time. small maps i'll give it a shot even though the base is usually under 50% by the time i arrive.

however i've had several good base brawls of late where the people trickling in at a steady rate to keep/prevent the cap eventually broguht everyone to the base for the final brawl. a couple of them had the base at a sliver of health for several minutes until one defender accidentally slipped out of the base for the vital last tick (was killed another time). also had last ditch cap attempts fail by the same slivers of base health when the survivors of the team that was winning make it back just in time to finish off our last mech trying to cap.

still do suffer the "A goes left, B goes left and both sides end up at each other's base to complain about the other side capping- yet won;t budge at that point because they know the other side is going to finish the cap if they move." on occasion.

on alpine i've found the base with the higher starting point tends to lose to cap more than the lower spot for whatever reason. on tourmaline also the lower spot (sigma?) tends to get capped more than the upper (gamma?- i always mix them up) one closest to the debris ring in the sand- in that case i think it's because gamma has a easier time to reposition their sniper points to fire at gamma than sigma does (may be the reason in alpine as well)

[Erasus Magnus]

right now, light mechs do not have a satisfying meta besides of cap racing, fighting over caps with their kind and occasionally disruptive attacks on the big boys. as long as this meta doesnt change, the cap race is legit.

[Zerberus]

Agent of Change, on 22 April 2013 - 05:13 AM, said:

When you tell them what you are doing, when you wait to see if they will react, and then wait more because no one is that arrogant or dumb to not even check it out, visually at least, then you are dealing with people who want to lose.

This is essentially my point. These people are playing to lose, and then coming on the forums whining when they do... Absolutely mind boggling, possibly brain-dead.

Tanar, on 22 April 2013 - 05:24 AM, said:

still do suffer the "A goes left, B goes left and both sides end up at each other's base to complain about the other side capping- yet won;t budge at that point because they know the other side is going to finish the cap if they move." on occasion.

This is even more of a trip than the people that don`t care, when both teams rush to cap and then flame the other team for doing exactly that. Every time that happens I look at my bong and think: "Maybe I`ve smoked enough for today."

Edited by Zerberus, 22 April 2013 - 05:33 AM.

[Footupyzz]

Cifrer, on 21 April 2013 - 11:15 AM, said:

You're a damn *****. You are saying we should only run mediums, fast heavies(I.E. Dragons), or lights and run halfway across the map from the fight to stop a capper. Or we should just sit at cap the whole match to defend it, because that's a great idea right? Lets not bring our firepower to the fight with our assault so our team gets whacked and then we get to defend cap outnumbered. Because lets be realistic, the whole ******* team isn't going to just sit at cap with you to protect it.

The issue isn't people who like to play assaults or heavies, it's the POS match maker. Until that crap is fixed this is going to be an issue.

I know the response to a post like this is "blah blah blah run a 4 man" and I say to that ****. You know there's a problem, you don't want it to get fixed, screw off with your idiocy.

Yes, people try to return to base to stop the capper. No, we don't only play assaults or slow mechs. Pull your head out of your *** before you post.

it's funny how some people think only by insulting to get their point across.

We players make the game ...so everybody look at yourself...before writing in forum with childish reactions.
We all did our part in these so-called OP-builds, running with four lights and so on. The prove is on youtube...and we all liked it.

Edited by Footupyazz, 22 April 2013 - 05:32 AM.

[Zerberus]

Side note: What also often happens is that we`ll tap the cap just to **** off the other team, and then break off. Pure psychological warfare with no intention to cap. We often communicate this to our team, and usually plan to regroup with the main force shortly afterwards.

Then some douche from the other team will flame us the instant he hears "base is being captured".

At which point in time we think to ourselves "yeah, **** you too, *******", and then we DO push the cap through, specifically to **** that person off.

Not that it really matters or "might" reduce the number of fast caps, just what happens in about 70% of the matches where I intentionally cap the base. The other 30% are last ditch efforts.

Edited by Zerberus, 22 April 2013 - 05:42 AM.

[Agent of Change]

I will voluntarily end a cap attempt if my team is in a good position.
I will finish the cap if it seems the mostly likely win, i have a point to make or people are dicks about it.

[Roadbuster]

KKRonkka, on 22 April 2013 - 02:18 AM, said:

I have nothing against light mechs but either it's ECM/streak spamming or insta rush to base. So, what's wrong in capping concept in general:

- Capping FLAG/POINT belongs to WOT damn you, MWO was supposed to present the future

- You have 8 mechs fighting over tiny tiny tiny piece of land which is lame. EPIC. Yeah, those drills which were added lately are ******* awesome, I admit that

- The second the match starts, you notice one factor missing on your side: luck. MM didnt give light mechs to your team. "Oh look, it's alpine/tourmaline... and enemy has (insert >1 amount) ECM lights running to caps!". Who wants to play when luck determines your end result, not skills?

Add real objectives, like proper sized zones (city districs, streets etc) with more sensible way of capping than STANDING there... or destroyable objects. Why so static. Why so boring. Why so unimaginative.

I can only agree.
An "assault" game should not be about defending your starting point. Which is only the point where you land and nothing else usually.
Assault means that you drop somewhere on a battlefield. There is no base.
You are there to attack and destroy/cap something. Either a structure or another group of mechs, but not their landing point.

There should be more structures to cap or destroy instead of the landing zone.
For example the dropships on Tourmaline and Frozen City, the ship on Forest Colony, some specific buildings on River City, or the radio stations on Alpine.

Put 3-6 such assault objects on each map and give each team the objective of capturing some and destroying the other.
Depending on how many you can cap and keep save or how many of them you can destroy you should get different rewards.

Defending a base should be a seperate game mode.

[Joseph Mallan]

Roadbuster, on 22 April 2013 - 05:52 AM, said:

I can only agree.
An "assault" game should not be about defending your starting point. Which is only the point where you land and nothing else usually.
Assault means that you drop somewhere on a battlefield. There is no base.
You are there to attack and destroy/cap something. Either a structure or another group of mechs, but not their landing point.

There should be more structures to cap or destroy instead of the landing zone.
For example the dropships on Tourmaline and Frozen City, the ship on Forest Colony, some specific buildings on River City, or the radio stations on Alpine.

Put 3-6 such assault objects on each map and give each team the objective of capturing some and destroying the other.
Depending on how many you can cap and keep save or how many of them you can destroy you should get different rewards.

Defending a base should be a seperate game mode.

Assault. you go to where the enemy is and beat the Hel out of them. But if the main objective of the match is first capture the base second beat the stuffing out of your enemy. Why not eat our cake and have it too. be able to cap, go find the bad guys and kill em all! At teh end of 15 minutes the side with the most objectives compete wins (cap +8 kills win) Or in he event of a tie the team with more damage done wins. Cause 'moar iz bedder' right?

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 22 April 2013 - 06:03 AM.

[Bobzilla]

Agent of Change, on 22 April 2013 - 05:01 AM, said:

Because the alternative is everyone runs a Brawler sniper and waddles towards the same spot to have a the same fight every match?

but I'm thinking discussing nuance, balance, and strategy with you would be a lost cause what with your two line master work of Reductio Absurdum.

More to the point, I'll cap ya, so defend or lose.

I only pug so can't rely on teamates. If I use anything with speed I don't have to worry about being capped, as I know I will return to base. But if im in a slower mech (i like to use different things), my only 2 choices are sit near the base away from the action, or play the game and risk a cap loss. I always choose to play the game as sitting in one spot doing nothing is really boring to me, and if im not envolved in the match the teams are 7v8. Unlike defending, capping is taking yourself out of the action but you still produce a result for your team.

I guess you find sitting in one spot and doing nothing super exciting. I don't, its not why i play this game. But to each his own have fun sitting there. I'll probably still get as much xp/cbills as the capper, but more fun as well.

[Agent of Change]

Bobzilla, on 22 April 2013 - 06:19 AM, said:

I only pug so can't rely on teamates. If I use anything with speed I don't have to worry about being capped, as I know I will return to base. But if im in a slower mech (i like to use different things), my only 2 choices are sit near the base away from the action, or play the game and risk a cap loss. I always choose to play the game as sitting in one spot doing nothing is really boring to me, and if im not envolved in the match the teams are 7v8. Unlike defending, capping is taking yourself out of the action but you still produce a result for your team.

I guess you find sitting in one spot and doing nothing super exciting. I don't, its not why i play this game. But to each his own have fun sitting there. I'll probably still get as much xp/cbills as the capper, but more fun as well.

Coordinate with your pugmates, or at least try, i know mostly you'll get insults or silence. But at the end of the day you shouldn't have to be the only one tryign to defend.

the other major problem we have that is illustrated beautifully be high alpha sniper builds is selfish play. When you are more focused on you than your teams success then bad things are gonna happen.

I;m not accusing you of anything i'm just putting some thoughts out there.