258 replies to this topic

[Taemien]

Dante Giuseppe Lassenerra, on 21 April 2013 - 01:14 PM, said:

Ok, so by your logic, you being in the faster 'Mech and running past the enemy to cap is okay. But OP's avoiding you? What? You're in the faster 'Mech, you can run circles around him; but you choose to run PAST him and cap? And HE's avoiding YOU? He doesn't even know you're there until he gets the "Friendly base is being captured" warning. Hell, if you run ECM he probably won't even see you! (which is fine, got nothing against ECM)

I do this in assaults and heavies too, including my Jagermech and Founders Atlas. Its rather hilarious when they send in the lights to chase me away and they find themselves outgunned (I'm a pretty decent shot). Sorry but if someone is too far to come back to their base, it means they did one of two things: Went for my base -or- Ran to a dugin position on the map.

So yes in a sense I can run circles around their mechs in a fast mech. I choose not to do that when they are bunched up in a ball. I'd rather not have 8 mechs shooting at me while I only have 30ish of Torso/Leg armor.

Besides, why do I have to change my strategy? If it wins it works. They have to change theirs. So here's what people like the OP have to do:

Whine/Lose
Fight/Defend
Quit

Which is it going to be? (this isn't directed just at the one I quoted, not sure if they are for or against the OP's position) I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing and you cannot stop me. No amount of name calling, peer pressure, whining, or whatever is going to make me stop. So what are you all going to do? How will you stop me? Are you all going to quit? Please tell me you will. I want to hear it.

I'm waiting to hear the solution on this debacle you all got yourselves in.

[TB Freelancer]

Absolutely zero sympathy for the capping sucks whiners.

I've got two examples of matches I played today.

1. Playing river city, we pound the other team, we have 4 heavily beat up mechs (my CT, RT and LT are exposed, a few weapons destroyed) they've got one left but no one knows where he is and we are in upper city, most of us are moving to their base, one guy is quite literally within 50m of it, then the base capture warning comes up. Everyone, even the guy closest to the base runs for the mech capping our base, turns out he was in a fresh highlander in a brawler config, in the space of 20 seconds 3 guys are dead and he's got a 20 second lead on the cap.

Those three guys had to get that one kill and in so doing snatched defeat from the jaws of a guaranteed victory.

2. Just 20 minutes ago (as of this writing) I'm in a match in Forest Colony with a Davion 3L lance and mostly assaults and heavies for the rest of the team. We're not far from our base but its clear the other side is steadily moving towards ours, I warn the guys that the main body is pushing towards our base. What does my team do, it keeps drifting farther and farther away from our base, the Davions try capping and get chased away by a pair of (I'm assuming) assaults, meanwhile 6 heavies and assaults are sitting on our base, our team put itself in the middle of the water and we lost.

EDIT: I just don't know what to say about that one aside from "No fair we had a 3 Davion handicap!"



Now the confusing thing to me is that everyone seems to want to deathmatch, play for their own personal glory, get as many kills as possible, winning is nice too...

....but when they know the enemy is sitting on their base, they suddenly lose their appetite for a fight, hang back a few hundred meters away taking pot shots and expect the next guy to throw himself on a grenade and 'stop the cap' or wade in and soften them up so they can rack up a few more kills from a 'safe' distance.

I've said it multiple times, but the vast majority of times I've seen a base cap, there were clear signs it would happen, it was entirely preventable, and the team who lost only has its own foolishness to blame.

Edited by TB Freelancer, 21 April 2013 - 07:57 PM.

[Vellinious]

I play a 3L to **** people off. I go cap at the beginning of the game to do 2 things... **** off the opposing team, and split the opposing teams forces. On the way there, I take a peak for spotting duty, and report my findings to my team. If they don't come back for me, I stay on cap until there's a sliver left, and then go find a lonely enemy mech to annihilate. If it looks like the battle is going poorly for my team, and it's now 2 v 6+, I'll go finish the cap and save the win.

In other words....I'm fulfilling my role. Don't like it? Equip less PPC's so you can move faster.

[Sephlock]

TB Freelancer, on 21 April 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:

I've said it multiple times, but the vast majority of times I've seen a base cap, there were clear signs it would happen, it was entirely preventable, and the team who lost only has its own foolishness to blame.

In fairness, its not reasonable to expect a brawling Atlas or similarly slow assault build to run back to base. It is, on the other hand, reasonable to expect faster mechs to do so, and when they don't, its on them, not the super slow guys.

[James Warren]

I only really cap bases in the Spider because I have to for the sake of the team. Its not exactly thrilling on the larger maps because while my team is engaging the enemy I am just sitting watching a capture bar.

Its one of those damned if you do, damned if you don't situations. I could just ignore the caps and suggest we slug it out in the middle, but undoubtedly someone on the other team will go and capture everything anyway and we'll lose. Or someone on my team will start nagging me to capture, even though I'd rather be harassing and distracting the enemy.

You could in theory divide your team into two groups, but then if one group encounters the entire enemy team they are most likely going to die pretty quickly. This is why in most conquest games the majority move in a large group towards the central point, while the lights (which are more often than not the minority) do the legwork. I doubt 12 vs 12 will play out much differently.

On the large maps, having a fast 'mech capture can easily put your team 20-50 points ahead before the enemy team is even spotted. I think this is a problem that should be addressed at some stage, perhaps the points should be closer together in the middle or there should be fewer of them. On the two large maps it just takes far too long to reach other points during the course of a game; realistically most players will only see one or two unless they are playing a dedicated capture role.

[Treckin]

Neverfar, on 21 April 2013 - 03:42 PM, said:

You don't get off that easy. I used your exact post to show how falliable it was. It's your dishwashing liquid, now soak in it.

Please then elaborate because I definitely don't understand (did anyone?).

You quoted my post yet showed nothing exactly. Please, do step in and explain.

[Sir Digby Chicken Caesar]

Budor, on 21 April 2013 - 11:05 AM, said:

People that do not def, do not return to base when its being capped, only run assault or slowass builds deserve to be basecapped in 10/10 games.

In other words: only play lights and fast mediums. PGI, take note and stop making assault and heavy mechs.

[Jman5]

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar, on 21 April 2013 - 05:32 PM, said:

In other words: only play lights and fast mediums. PGI, take note and stop making assault and heavy mechs.

In other words: If you're going to play a build that limits you to 45-55 kph, there will be consequences.

It sounds to me that many of the players out there want superior firepower, superior armor/hitpoints, and no discernible downside.

Oh, but he can still circle strafe me! That's all the advantage he should get!

Big ******* deal. You can absorb the blows of a raven for 5 minutes and all you need to do is wait for him to trip up a few times for your alphas to obliterate him.

Do you want to know what is more annoying than base capturing? Rounding a corner in my hunchback and having my side torso cleaved off in a single volley from 700 meters out. At least with base capturing you have the opportunity to respond.

[Crunk Prime]

Taemien, on 21 April 2013 - 03:48 PM, said:

I do this in assaults and heavies too, including my Jagermech and Founders Atlas. Its rather hilarious when they send in the lights to chase me away and they find themselves outgunned (I'm a pretty decent shot). Sorry but if someone is too far to come back to their base, it means they did one of two things: Went for my base -or- Ran to a dugin position on the map.

So yes in a sense I can run circles around their mechs in a fast mech. I choose not to do that when they are bunched up in a ball. I'd rather not have 8 mechs shooting at me while I only have 30ish of Torso/Leg armor.

Besides, why do I have to change my strategy? If it wins it works. They have to change theirs. So here's what people like the OP have to do:

Whine/Lose
Fight/Defend
Quit

Which is it going to be? (this isn't directed just at the one I quoted, not sure if they are for or against the OP's position) I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing and you cannot stop me. No amount of name calling, peer pressure, whining, or whatever is going to make me stop. So what are you all going to do? How will you stop me? Are you all going to quit? Please tell me you will. I want to hear it.

I'm waiting to hear the solution on this debacle you all got yourselves in.

Easy up there brother. If you try any harder you might rupture something.

[Fabe]

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar, on 21 April 2013 - 05:32 PM, said:

In other words: only play lights and fast mediums. PGI, take note and stop making assault and heavy mechs.

Or if your playing in premade make sure your team takes a better variety of mechs instead of going all heavy/assault.

[Deadlament]

I don't understand the complaining around base capping. It's a clear part of the objectives for the battle and it's up to the team to communicate and play to win.
I have lost many a game to base capping by some courageous light mech or even heavy mech who has placed themselves in the right place at the right time. This is what it's all about.
In terms of telling people what mech to play, it's up to the individual. I play light and assault mechs and both are great fun to play. The key here is to play to the strengths of your mech, not its weaknesses. Don't go toe to toe with a light mech and don't try to run fast in an assault mech.
As far as the game goes, from what I've seen (only played this for two months now) the key seems to be communication. The team that is able to talk to each other and place their forces in the right place wins every time.

[TB Freelancer]

Sephlock, on 21 April 2013 - 04:46 PM, said:

In fairness, its not reasonable to expect a brawling Atlas or similarly slow assault build to run back to base. It is, on the other hand, reasonable to expect faster mechs to do so, and when they don't, its on them, not the super slow guys.

No offense but that garbage you just wrote is just self serving rationalizing. What you're saying is, "I don't need to go back because (insert weak argument here) someone else will take care of it, I'll keep trying to rack up kills and pad my stats."

When you and your whole team are well on your side of the map, your base is being capped and;
if warn your team and nag them about defending the base,
if you outright stop any movement away from your base,
if you put your mech in a slow reverse while facing and keep the enemies advancing forces occupied effectively;
if you put yourself in an effective position to help your team; and,
if you've done none of those things, you're doing it wrong. Period.

Now if you've done all those things and find yourself without any kind of support, then ignoring the base cap is acceptable. You've done all that can be expected of you to reasonably support your team, but your team is full of morons who rationalize not defending the base for selfish reasons like I'm an assault, I'm already 300m away, that guy is about dead and one lucky shot will net me another stat to pad, blah blah blah.....

[Agent of Change]

*Ahem*

CAP!

that is all

This post brought to you by
The Post Lerian Jihad
"We Post Better then You"

Edited by Agent of Change, 21 April 2013 - 07:57 PM.

[Vahnn]

Don't rush to center of the map, watch side routes for enemy cappers, have someone ready to return to base to interrupt cap until backup can arrive.

BUT WAAAAH, IT'S SO HARDDDDDD, YOU MEAN I HAVE TO COMMUNICATE WITH MY TEAMMMMM?!

Yes.

[Stoicblitzer]

need weight class matching. you could have 0 lights and they could have 4. capping is valid.

[Sir Digby Chicken Caesar]

Jman5, on 21 April 2013 - 06:33 PM, said:

In other words: If you're going to play a build that limits you to 45-55 kph, there will be consequences.

However, those consequences should not involve a screwed up matchmaker dropping one team with multiple lights and the other with none.

Oh, and I dare you to sit there and 'absorb' blows from any half-decent Raven pilot for a full five minutes.

[Nightfire]

I spent a good deal of the weekend leveling up my Cicadas and I'll be honest, I went for the quick cap first every time and then prepared to fight while capping. With this weekend being Highlander and Friends Online, I'm not stupid enough to run into the middle of a lance of assaults, well not more than 3 times! You play the game your way, I'll play it mine!

Point of note though, for those that despise those of us that cap so much that they yell out to the opposing team our mech type, that we are heading for their cap and what grid they can currently find us in ... I will report you each and every time! I've had to do that this weekend and it felt good!

It's one thing to play the game a different way than I do, it's another to try and force your desires upon me!

[Silentium]

This makes me wonder how the matchmaker prioritizes who will go into a match; meaning, does it consider ELO first, then weight? Also, couldn't it be possible that the matchmaker is having trouble dealing with all of the assaults in the tourney in addition to all the HGN new shinies?

I mean, a couple matches tonight, people were surprised to see a Jenner. The opposing team had no lights at all. How can the matchmaker do its job if there is hardly anything to work with?

I am going to go out on a limb and make the following guesses:

1. The light population shrank
2. The majority of remaining lights run as a team (trolling or otherwise).
3. 4 man's aren't broken up resulting in imbalances in team composition, because there aren't any/enough lights launching at the moment to even things out.

[TruePoindexter]

I've rescued countless games now by back capping during a front line fight that went very poorly.

Keep an eye out for the enemy disposition - if you see they have anything fast understand that there's a real danger of losing to a cap despite killing the majority of the enemy team and plan accordingly. Strong teams that don't themselves have something fast will push forward so that they can cap and still win via a cap race.

TLDR: Pay attention and prepare for it.

[Corvus Antaka]

you know, if 2 assaults stayed behind and DEFENDED the base, this wouldnt be a problem.

the whole point is to play for tactical nodes. way to many of you rush out thinking the objective is to kill the enemy team.

it isnt. the objective is the bases. killing the whole other team is just 1 possible way of winning.