258 replies to this topic

[Dante Giuseppe Lassenerra]

I don't mean to start a flamewar or anything, I just love this game and the built-in balance the whole battletech universe has. They've got 30 years of rules and games that translate well into a simulation game. I just don't see why that needs to be modified.

[Alymbic]

[Training Instructor]

I tried playing mediums and heavies this weekend, but it's not as fun as irritating people by winning games they want to win.

"Waaaahhhh, I brought an assault sniper to Alpine Peaks and all I got was 120dmg and no kills because some 25-40 ton mech didn't want to face me in combat"

[Jman5]

• Every game I look at my team composition to get a feel for our strengths.
  
• Every game I check the map to make sure someone scouts the alternate path toward our base. I continuously check the map over the course of the game to maintain map awareness of my team and the enemy.
  
• Every game that doesn't have a designated scout down the alternate path, I go down personally. NO MATTER WHAT MECH I AM IN.
  
• Every game, I scan the battlefield for the enemies and count how many I see and where.
  
• Every game when I see enemies heading toward our base, I communicate it with my team.
  
• Every game where a cap rush does get by our team, I run back to save it if I can.
  
• I'm not infallible, but because I put in more effort than you, I don't often lose to base captures.

Let's face it. You're losing because you're too lazy to put in an equal amount of effort as the base capturing team. This problem rests entirely on you and your teammates. You are not entitled to have a lighter team face you in a lopsided slugfest. If you can't scout and position properly, that's your fault not theirs.

Edited by Jman5, 21 April 2013 - 05:03 PM.

[Wintersdark]

Dante Giuseppe Lassenerra, on 21 April 2013 - 01:28 PM, said:

I've been around since closed beta, thanks. And I've been playing Mechwarrior games since the 90's. I don't bother with the forums much.

And you still didn't know why assault has bases? It's pretty obvious why it does if you're not brand spanking new.

Quote

I don't give a **** about ELO's or HSR or whatever. Skill. This game takes skill, and patience. That's what I care about.

It does indeed. But you SHOULD give a **** about Elo and HSR, because they matter.

Why does Elo matter? It matters because with an Elo system in place, in most cases you're not going to be faced against a team that's significantly more or less skilled. Before Elo, if you were a good player, this was a safe assumption and you could build tactics around the fact that most players were worse than you. Now, that assumption is extremely bad, because most players you face will be roughly at your skill level.

Quote

Again, I've seen light pilots beat the crap out of assaults, and I'm not talking one on one. I've had a whole lance taken out by three ravens, I've had a whole TEAM get taken out by four Centurions. I don't mind, those players kicked *** and my team did our best. Boiling the game down to "Well I've got the smaller 'Mech so they'll kill me automatically" doesn't work. Hell, I've seen teammates who couldn't hit the broadside of a barn with an LB10-X AC. There's no point in making excuses, it's a game, your skill level rises the more you play. Like, it's so damn simple: make a new gametype with no capping, just combat. Everyone will get better at the game.

Everyone gets better at the game by playing it, regardless. You haven't addressed my response above, though, as to why there isn't a no-cap Team Deathmatch mode: because the results of "bad games" in TDM make for a worse gameplay experience than the "bad games" in assault.

Simply put:
Assault Worst Case: Having a game end after 2 minutes, and free up everyone's mechs so they can play another match immediately. This situation has MANY potential valid defenses to stop it too.
TDM Worst Case: Having games regularly drag on for 15 minutes because the asshat with the 3L decides to troll all 15/23 other players.

[Wintersdark]

Mystere, on 21 April 2013 - 01:30 PM, said:

I am really disturbed by the fact that there are people out there who actually expect light pilots to just stand still and die.

Do you want to kill my light? Then come and get me! That is my game. Why should I play yours and just get butchered?

I trust that you're not thinking I expect lights to stand still and die, and are continuing with my point. It sounds like it, but for the use of "yours" with my post being quoted

I expect lights to use their speed, and to win the match however they see fit. If that's by capping, so be it. The opposing team has many potential defenses to that, and one of them - heading back to base - forces the lights to fight, if that's what the opposing team wants.

I don't expect a lone light to try to effectively engage 4 assaults that are supporting each other, and this is my point. Unless there is a truely enormous skill disparity, that's a losing proposition. The light may attempt to separate them, or may attempt to cap. Either is valid. Capping is arguably better, because it serves as both a winning move and attempt to split up the enemy force.

Edited by Wintersdark, 21 April 2013 - 01:42 PM.

[TOGSolid]

Mystere, on 21 April 2013 - 01:30 PM, said:

I am really disturbed by the fact that there are people out there who actually expect light pilots to just stand still and die.

Do you want to kill my light? Then come and get me! That is my game. Why should I play yours and just get butchered?

BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT PLAYING THE GAME RIGHT BAWWWWWWWWW.

[Bishop Steiner]

Lefty Lucy, on 21 April 2013 - 11:15 AM, said:

You use your own scouts to spot the back door rush. You don't send your heavy team too far from base until you know what the enemy is doing.

This is really simple.




LOL, 8 mans are *good* because you only play against other organized teams. Playing an organized team against randoms is bad for you (you don't get any better), bad for them (they get stomped), bad for the game (less people play), and not fun.

Agreed, though when Pugging, can't say I can choose a team with Scouts. I got nothing against getting capped. I do find it very boring when my team OR the other Cap when there is no need. Got no issue if it's toward the end of a close match, or a team is getting rolled, they cap. totally valid. Just rushing off to cap from the start? Why not go play a f*cking racing game?

[Lefty Lucy]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 April 2013 - 01:42 PM, said:

Agreed, though when Pugging, can't say I can choose a team with Scouts. I got nothing against getting capped. I do find it very boring when my team OR the other Cap when there is no need. Got no issue if it's toward the end of a close match, or a team is getting rolled, they cap. totally valid. Just rushing off to cap from the start? Why not go play a f*cking racing game?

Well, yeah, if you don't have any faster mechs, you pretty much just have to stay near your base to avoid cap. It can make for a boring "let's just wait each other out" fest, but it's better than losing because your team decided that Atlases need to be in the middle of the map as fast as possible.

When PUGging, I try to communicate a simple, effective strat at the beginning. If this fails then I just follow along with the crowd and hope the enemy team isn't more organized than my own.

[Wintersdark]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 April 2013 - 01:42 PM, said:

Agreed, though when Pugging, can't say I can choose a team with Scouts. I got nothing against getting capped. I do find it very boring when my team OR the other Cap when there is no need. Got no issue if it's toward the end of a close match, or a team is getting rolled, they cap. totally valid. Just rushing off to cap from the start? Why not go play a f*cking racing game?

Indeed, it's not much fun to have matches end after 2 minutes to a cap rush.

But I still maintain, it's better than sitting around for 15 minutes while a couple asshats troll both teams by hiding and dragging matches out.

[The Mech behind you]

Dante Giuseppe Lassenerra, on 21 April 2013 - 01:28 PM, said:

*Shrug* I get around okay going 78.

I tried the slow Dragons too. Ended with ... I have all 5 Dragons and the smallest Engine on them is XL 340 (thats about 100 kph). I just feel like a road bump if my Dragons are slower than 100

[Nightcrept]

Dante Giuseppe Lassenerra, on 21 April 2013 - 01:14 PM, said:

Ok, sorry to double-post, but WTF, LEARN TO PLAY THE GAME.

Ok, so by your logic, you being in the faster 'Mech and running past the enemy to cap is okay.  But OP's avoiding you?  What?  You're in the faster 'Mech, you can run circles around him; but you choose to run PAST him and cap?  And HE's avoiding YOU?  He doesn't even know you're there until he gets the "Friendly base is being captured" warning.  Hell, if you run ECM he probably won't even see you! (which is fine, got nothing against ECM)

YES, it's called role warfare, as in LEARN YOUR ROLE.  I drive a Dragon with 280XL, I can get around a map just fine, light 'Mechs are still more nimble and faster AS A RULE.

A light mech's role is not to assault an entire lance of mechs. It's role is to use its speed to scout, harass and draw away the enemy. If your team is dumb enough to let one cap you then learn to play better...lol.

[TOGSolid]

Norman Kosh, on 21 April 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

I tried the slow Dragons too. Ended with ... I have all 5 Dragons and the smallest Engine on them is XL 340 (thats about 100 kph). I just feel like a road bump if my Dragons are slower than 100

I'm pretty sure you can be tried for war crimes if you unironically own a Dragon that goes less than 90 (not having speed tweak yet is a valid excuse).

[Lefty Lucy]

Norman Kosh, on 21 April 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

I tried the slow Dragons too. Ended with ... I have all 5 Dragons and the smallest Engine on them is XL 340 (thats about 100 kph). I just feel like a road bump if my Dragons are slower than 100

Yep. Especially if you're packing an XL, if you're only going to go 78 you might as well be driving a cataphract or catapult. The *only* benefit of driving a Dragon is that it's a 60 ton mech that can go 100 kph.

[Mystere]

Wintersdark, on 21 April 2013 - 01:41 PM, said:

I trust that you're not thinking I expect lights to stand still and die, and are continuing with my point. It sounds like it, but for the use of "yours" with my post being quoted

Your trust was well placed.


Here's a thought for the OP and others complaining about capping. If the capper wins enough games, he will eventually move on to a higher Elo rating and will be out of your hair in no time.

Edited by Mystere, 21 April 2013 - 02:19 PM.

[Nonsense]

Training Instructor, on 21 April 2013 - 01:36 PM, said:

"Waaaahhhh, I brought an assault sniper to Alpine Peaks and all I got was ...

Because you get to choose which map you play, amirite?

[Terran123rd]

Wintersdark, on 21 April 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

As far as I'm concerned, the moment someone starts invoking "Call of Duty" to make their point, it's a hopelessly lost cause. CoD is essentially the MWO equivilant of Godwin's Law.

I hereby christen the phenomenon "CODwin's Law".

[Jazzbandit1313]

Mystere, on 21 April 2013 - 01:30 PM, said:

I am really disturbed by the fact that there are people out there who actually expect light pilots to just stand still and die.

Do you want to kill my light? Then come and get me! That is my game. Why should I play yours and just get butchered?

No i expect you to run around my ankles and at least try to fight

[TOGSolid]

Terran123rd, on 21 April 2013 - 02:32 PM, said:

I hereby christen the phenomenon "CODwin's Law".

Seconded.

[Jazzbandit1313]

Jman5, on 21 April 2013 - 01:37 PM, said:

• Every game I look at my team composition to get a feel for the our strengths.
  
• Every game I check the map to make sure someone scouts the alternate path toward our base. I continuously check the map over the course of the game to maintain map awareness of my team and the enemy.
  
• Every game that doesn't have a designated scout down the alternate path, I go down personally. NO MATTER WHAT MECH I AM IN.
  
• Every game, I scan the battlefield for the enemies and count how many I see and where.
  
• Every game when I see enemies heading toward our base, I communicate it with my team.
  
• Every game where a cap rush does get by our team, I run back to save it if I can.
  
• I'm not infallible, but because I put in more effort than you, I don't often lose to base captures.

Let's face it. You're losing because you're too lazy to put in an equal amount of effort as the base capturing team. This problem rests entirely on you and your teammates. You are not entitled to have a lighter team face you in a lopsided slugfest. If you can't scout and position properly, that's your fault not theirs.

So according to you this is effort's definition
Effort - Throttle up to 130 KPH (or whatever) run around the enemy team without being Noticed. Throttle down. sit there.

that sir is a little bit of a wrong definition. You think it takes effort to back cap a team? HA.