116 replies to this topic

[aniviron]

Does anyone remember the pulse lasers from Mechwarrior 2? I want that. ;D

edit: in all seriousness pulses need a serious overhaul in this game though

Edited by aniviron, 06 May 2013 - 12:55 AM.

[MustrumRidcully]

Team Leader, on 27 April 2013 - 08:03 AM, said:

THOSE are the pulse lasers I want! Giant laser machine guns!

Oh, but machine guns are anti-infantry weapons. This will automatically cut their DPS in half...
And just think what a 6 pulse laser Commando could do with an Atlas if you do this!

[Wintersdark]

MustrumRidcully, on 06 May 2013 - 01:06 AM, said:

Oh, but machine guns are anti-infantry weapons. This will automatically cut their DPS in half...
And just think what a 6 pulse laser Commando could do with an Atlas if you do this!

Quoting for extra +Like-age.

The above post is awesome.

[MustrumRidcully]

I didn't want to kill this thread with my machine gun concern/joke.

So I'll add something to it:

The big question, I think, is how to balance continous stream weapons in MW:O. Continous stream of bullets or lasers - or even a rapid recycle rate weapon like the AC/2 - suffer from one big flaw - every time you twist your torso or do any other maneuvers to avoid or misdirect incoming fire is damage lost.

If I sit in my Dual AC/20 Jager, I can basically spend 3 out of 4 seconds watching my surroundings and trying to avoid getting hit in the face. If I'd play a Dragon with 4 hypothetical Machine-Gun-Like Pulse Lasers and an AC/2, I couldn't do this.

And that's not all - if an enemy runs by and I only have a brief window of opportunity, I might be able to deliver 40 damage with that AC/20 Jagemech to him. Sure, it would require a lot of skill (or luck?) to hit, but with an equal DPS pulse/MG/AC2 setup, I'd deal a lot less, and I'd even likely to spread it. A 40 damage hit to the leg might take out a leg. 20 damage spread across both legs and the left torso won't have the same impact.

So, how can we compensate for this?

I suppose the obvious solution is having continous weapons deal more damage per ton and heat than short burst weapons like Gauss, AC/20, PPCs and AC/10s.

[AZA311]

I voted NO. The Pulse Laser is already unique and a very deadly weapon for the player who knows how to use them

You do not have to worry about LPL having their own niche. They already do!

Do not take them away.

Add another laser weapons class. Rapid fire lasers/Machine gun lasers. More options = more tactics = more fun

[MustrumRidcully]

AZA311, on 11 May 2013 - 10:04 PM, said:

I voted NO. The Pulse Laser is already unique and a very deadly weapon for the player who knows how to use them

You do not have to worry about LPL having their own niche. They already do!

What niche is that?

[ExtremeA79]

I like your idea, but what about making pulse lasers automatic, fires until you release the trigger.

[Tombstoner]

I am missing the targeting bonus of the pulse laser badly.... not from being a bad shot... I just have a different paradigm for this game. If pulse lasers are converted to a continuous damage weapon it will add a nice bit of variety to weapon selection.... also it would look cool.

This would for me be an acceptable translation for the lack of any to hit bonus and a competitive reason to take them vs. say the erLL. A weapon that also has time on target issues. I also think time on target is why people moved to the er-PPC so fast once the net code was fixed and er-ppc speed was buffed. ppc's are all or nothing weapons, lasers need far more skill to do full damage.

Since the weapon would be continuous with zero recharge the player would be able to keep the beam on target and potentially not miss with damage and prevent wasted heat generation. This lets the player control the damage output/heat accumulation for the weapon. In the hands of skilled player this would be a very efficient weapon. (New flavor of the month.

As it is (IMO) the best weapons in the game are all or nothing systems with reduced potential over distance. The harsh'ist being srms and lrms - 0 damage over max range, but have a flat damage curve.

The ranges and damage drop off for all lasers need to be treated just like AC/ppc's/gause.

for snap shots vs. say 2 x ac-20's. The efficiency of the damage done relative to heat generated, your capacity to soak and dissipate that heat. What i consider the core of game balance. why alphas rule. This class of weapon can be highly efficient in a way other weapon cant be and this add's a new dimension for weapon balance the game really needs.

This idea can also be applied to auto cannons, make them continuous instead of single slugs. weapons fire as long as ammo holds out. basically massive scaled up versions of MG's

This creates two categorizes of weapons. The all or nothing damage per unit heat generated ppc's(no ammo)/gause(has ammo); heat and ammo for inter weapon balance vs. the continuous damage but controlled damage per heat generation of the pulse laser(no ammo)/ autocannon(with ammo) again heat vs. ammo for balance. between the pulse laser and the auto cannon. then balance between the high alpha weapons.

Very simple symmetry that should aid in weapon balancing. low alpha high player controlled heat efficiency vs. the high alpha all or nothing play style (current meta) meaning full choices for both styles.

Edited by Tombstoner, 16 May 2013 - 03:04 PM.

[Small Baguette]

I'd be very interested in this, I currently use MPLs a good bit but a change in dynamic would be welcome.

I'm a massive fan of brawling so more ways to make that viable in the current meta would be a bonus too.

[jeffsw6]

I voted "yes" on this poll. I don't agree with the OP's exact numbers or necessarily his concept, but I support over-hauling the pulse lasers so they are more valuable. I think his idea has merit.

[Corvus Antaka]

imho the simple solution would be to lower the recycle time on the pulse lasers pushing them inot a more heat inefficient but high burst damage brawling role, and/or maybe lowering the beam duration by .25 to .5 across the board on them.

[jakucha]

I do really well with large pulse, but medium and small definitely need some changes.

[Team Leader]

Tombstoner, on 16 May 2013 - 02:57 PM, said:

I am missing the targeting bonus of the pulse laser badly.... not from being a bad shot... I just have a different paradigm for this game. If pulse lasers are converted to a continuous damage weapon it will add a nice bit of variety to weapon selection.... also it would look cool.

This would for me be an acceptable translation for the lack of any to hit bonus and a competitive reason to take them vs. say the erLL. A weapon that also has time on target issues. I also think time on target is why people moved to the er-PPC so fast once the net code was fixed and er-ppc speed was buffed. ppc's are all or nothing weapons, lasers need far more skill to do full damage.

Since the weapon would be continuous with zero recharge the player would be able to keep the beam on target and potentially not miss with damage and prevent wasted heat generation. This lets the player control the damage output/heat accumulation for the weapon. In the hands of skilled player this would be a very efficient weapon. (New flavor of the month.

As it is (IMO) the best weapons in the game are all or nothing systems with reduced potential over distance. The harsh'ist being srms and lrms - 0 damage over max range, but have a flat damage curve.

The ranges and damage drop off for all lasers need to be treated just like AC/ppc's/gause.

for snap shots vs. say 2 x ac-20's. The efficiency of the damage done relative to heat generated, your capacity to soak and dissipate that heat. What i consider the core of game balance. why alphas rule. This class of weapon can be highly efficient in a way other weapon cant be and this add's a new dimension for weapon balance the game really needs.

This idea can also be applied to auto cannons, make them continuous instead of single slugs. weapons fire as long as ammo holds out. basically massive scaled up versions of MG's

This creates two categorizes of weapons. The all or nothing damage per unit heat generated ppc's(no ammo)/gause(has ammo); heat and ammo for inter weapon balance vs. the continuous damage but controlled damage per heat generation of the pulse laser(no ammo)/ autocannon(with ammo) again heat vs. ammo for balance. between the pulse laser and the auto cannon. then balance between the high alpha weapons.

Very simple symmetry that should aid in weapon balancing. low alpha high player controlled heat efficiency vs. the high alpha all or nothing play style (current meta) meaning full choices for both styles.

Good post, I agree. Even if they don't want to remove current pulse lasers, they should add the alternative suggested here as say "repeating lasers" or something. That would be awesome. Open up a whole new aspect of the game and would give flamers a chance to be useful, dramatically heating up anyone using multiple lasers firing quickly. The flamer would be the counter to the high DPS of repeating Lasers, which would be a high skill high reward weapon

[Phoenix Branson]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 02 June 2013 - 04:07 PM, said:

imho the simple solution would be to lower the recycle time on the pulse lasers pushing them inot a more heat inefficient but high burst damage brawling role, and/or maybe lowering the beam duration by .25 to .5 across the board on them.

Sounds good too me!

[aniviron]

Tombstoner, on 16 May 2013 - 02:57 PM, said:

I am missing the targeting bonus of the pulse laser badly.... not from being a bad shot... I just have a different paradigm for this game. If pulse lasers are converted to a continuous damage weapon it will add a nice bit of variety to weapon selection.... also it would look cool.

This would for me be an acceptable translation for the lack of any to hit bonus and a competitive reason to take them vs. say the erLL. A weapon that also has time on target issues. I also think time on target is why people moved to the er-PPC so fast once the net code was fixed and er-ppc speed was buffed. ppc's are all or nothing weapons, lasers need far more skill to do full damage.

Since the weapon would be continuous with zero recharge the player would be able to keep the beam on target and potentially not miss with damage and prevent wasted heat generation. This lets the player control the damage output/heat accumulation for the weapon. In the hands of skilled player this would be a very efficient weapon. (New flavor of the month.

As it is (IMO) the best weapons in the game are all or nothing systems with reduced potential over distance. The harsh'ist being srms and lrms - 0 damage over max range, but have a flat damage curve.

The ranges and damage drop off for all lasers need to be treated just like AC/ppc's/gause.

for snap shots vs. say 2 x ac-20's. The efficiency of the damage done relative to heat generated, your capacity to soak and dissipate that heat. What i consider the core of game balance. why alphas rule. This class of weapon can be highly efficient in a way other weapon cant be and this add's a new dimension for weapon balance the game really needs.

This idea can also be applied to auto cannons, make them continuous instead of single slugs. weapons fire as long as ammo holds out. basically massive scaled up versions of MG's

This creates two categorizes of weapons. The all or nothing damage per unit heat generated ppc's(no ammo)/gause(has ammo); heat and ammo for inter weapon balance vs. the continuous damage but controlled damage per heat generation of the pulse laser(no ammo)/ autocannon(with ammo) again heat vs. ammo for balance. between the pulse laser and the auto cannon. then balance between the high alpha weapons.

Very simple symmetry that should aid in weapon balancing. low alpha high player controlled heat efficiency vs. the high alpha all or nothing play style (current meta) meaning full choices for both styles.

Just quoting this because it is an excellent post and I would like to see this on the test server as soon as it goes live.

[Wolf Ender]

I love everyone's suggestions on this thread and I hope the devs experiment with different things in regards to pulse lasers.

I don't know if anyone else has already suggested it but i REALLY think we could add a lot of flavor and personality to the whole family of pulse lasers if we gave them impulse and knock properties similar to what some ballistic weapons have. obviously not something as dramatic as those annoying AC/2s, but something to shake people around more than regular beam lasers do as of now.

[WolvesX]

I support Syllogys basic idea for pulse lasers fully and wholy!

Great thinking Syllogy!

[Skoaljaw]

+1
I support this.

[Modo44]

Ditto on making them recycle faster and/or shortening the burst time.

[Crimson Fenris]

Make pulse lasers the same weight than their regular counterparts.

Now you get :
- small-range, higher damage, high-heat lasers
- long-range, lower damage, low-heat ones.

Fixed.
You're welcome.