29 replies to this topic

[SirLANsalot]

Jonathan Paine, on 23 April 2013 - 08:11 AM, said:

Yet another ill conceived attempt at solving a problem not fully understood. How does your solution affect Gauss+Dual ERPPC? Double Gauss? Double AC20?

It doesn't. It fixes BOATING guns, not proper configurations of mechs. AC20 jager, no different then the dual 20 K2 back in the day, or the dual gauss. Twin ERPPC, if you read it, thats the intended number of PPC's you should have on any mech, 2, aka a PPC20. Dual AC20 has its own drawbacks, as I already stated, ballistics already have there own balancing features built in. All those builds are not "boats" as you can only be able to take TWO of any of those guns, and even then very little ammo or trade speed for more ammo. They have all there own balance by being heavy guns and high crit space.
Energy Doesn't have that, nothing it has is heavier then 7 tons, and nothing is bigger then 3 crits, so it becomes very easy to max your energy slots with whatever the hell you want.

Abledime, on 23 April 2013 - 08:18 AM, said:

As a pilot who runs a 6 LL stalker I personally find that the Alpha strike is fairly useless, I much prefer to chain fire from a distance, I have maybe two alphas if I'm lucky, but i can chain fire almost indefinitely, an Alpha is only used to kill a meck I have badly damaged and blow off most of its weapons...

or if i have a pesky light running straight at me and then they just deserve a alpha.

The system would still penalize the 3rd+ of your LL's, even when single firing them, those larges would be hotter then the first two you placed. Example would be this. The first 2 LL are in the LT and RT, the 3rd/4th/5th/6th are in the LA/RA. The two in the torso would operate as normal, but the ones coming from the arms wouldn't, and would generate more heat, regardless of how you fired them.

Syllogy, on 23 April 2013 - 08:13 AM, said:

So... the HBK-4P, AWS-9M, all 3 Jager's, Stalkers, Cicadas, Jenners, and Commandos are up the creek then, right?

No, they are mechs made to boat there guns, so would have there "limiter" increased before penlites start.

This also only applies to BIG GUNS, ML and below are NOT penalized as they are INTENDED to be boated.

[SirLANsalot]

badump

[Troutmonkey]

Caustic Canid, on 23 April 2013 - 03:10 AM, said:

I also am starting to come around to the idea of a heat scale that punishes people for overheating, and punishes the more heavily the longer/more often they do it. As well as reducing the heat cap and raising heat efficiency to encourage more individual shots and less all out alphas.

^^^

[Troutmonkey]

Having each weapon generate different amount of heat would be pretty stupid. Make it so that the more weapons of the same type you have, the higher the heat penalties to all weapons, say 5% extra heat for each weapon stacked after the second one.

1x PPC - 8 heat per PPC
2x PPC - 8 heat per PPC
3x PPC - 8.4 heat per PPC (5% penalty)
4x PPC - 8.8 heat per PPC (10% penalty)
5x PPC - 9.2 heat per PPC (15% penalty)
6x PPC - 9.6 heat per PPC (20% penalty)

After the extra heat is sorted, actually make penalties for overheating, like DOT for each second you're over 100% heat.

Medium lasers and smaller should be immune to these penalties

Edited by Troutmonkey, 25 April 2013 - 12:31 AM.

[SirLANsalot]

Troutmonkey, on 25 April 2013 - 12:30 AM, said:

Having each weapon generate different amount of heat would be pretty stupid. Make it so that the more weapons of the same type you have, the higher the heat penalties to all weapons, say 5% extra heat for each weapon stacked after the second one.

1x PPC - 8 heat per PPC
2x PPC - 8 heat per PPC
3x PPC - 8.4 heat per PPC (5% penalty)
4x PPC - 8.8 heat per PPC (10% penalty)
5x PPC - 9.2 heat per PPC (15% penalty)
6x PPC - 9.6 heat per PPC (20% penalty)

After the extra heat is sorted, actually make penalties for overheating, like DOT for each second you're over 100% heat.

Medium lasers and smaller should be immune to these penalties

this would work very well too. As an overall penalty (stacking) instead of different values.


Gonna add this as an edit.

[Bloody Moon]

And i get to facepalm once more...
So my builds that use 4LLs are less desirable than the regular poptart 3D and HGN builds not to mention other similar FOTM ones?

By the way there is a logical fallacy in "engine not capable of producing enough energy/heat/whatever":
2LL+2PPC would essentially need roughly the same power output as 4LL or 4PPC does, how come the first build wouldn't have penalties?

[Hellcat420]

Therion I, on 23 April 2013 - 01:53 AM, said:

I believe there is lore for not being able to boat certain weapons as the engines cannot provide enough power to fire multiples. Think it applies to gauss but someone who is more familiar with the lore might know better.

in lore there were not a lot of boats because you couldnt just swap out weapons on an is mech like its an omnimech. in order to customize a mechs weapons you had to have a lot of money and a mech factory to refit your mech. that is why custom is mechs(heromechs) were rare in lore. the videogames ignored this for easier gameplay.

Edited by Hellcat420, 25 April 2013 - 05:21 PM.

[Syllogy]

Hellcat420, on 25 April 2013 - 05:20 PM, said:

in lore there were not a lot of boats because you couldnt just swap out weapons on an is mech like its an omnimech. in order to customize a mechs weapons you had to have a lot of money and a mech factory to refit your mech. that is why custom is mechs(heromechs) were rare in lore. the videogames ignored this for easier gameplay.

There were lots of boats. Omni Mechs have nothing to do with the amount of boats.

[Hellcat420]

Syllogy, on 25 April 2013 - 05:46 PM, said:

There were lots of boats. Omni Mechs have nothing to do with the amount of boats.

there were some variants that were boats, but not a lot of them.

[SirLANsalot]

Bloody Moon, on 25 April 2013 - 12:53 AM, said:

And i get to facepalm once more...
So my builds that use 4LLs are less desirable than the regular poptart 3D and HGN builds not to mention other similar FOTM ones?

By the way there is a logical fallacy in "engine not capable of producing enough energy/heat/whatever":
2LL+2PPC would essentially need roughly the same power output as 4LL or 4PPC does, how come the first build wouldn't have penalties?

2x LL and 2x PPC would not be a boat now would it? It would be a balanced mech, utlising multiple weapon systems as BT intended.

As for you other point. There is no limit to what the eng can output in power, ITS FUSION not FISSION, it literally is a small sun your mech walks around with at its core. Just how small of a sun is what the ratings are for, but its still a small sun with boundless energy.

A normal mech is ment to only use, at most, 2 or 3 "large caliber" energy weapons. Not 4, not 80098, just 2 (pair). Look around at most of the stock mech loadouts in the BT universe. Ya they would normally SUCK here because we don't have the system they were built around. But you can see how there made, like PPC's are treated like AC20's basically, but without the massive crit or tonnage costs associated with such a large gun. Thats because PPC's are supposed to be "heavy" by the amount of HS you need to off-set, or at least try to off-set, its massive heat. Here in MWO you can almost ignore the heat and just shoot and intentionally overheat. You can do that in BT too (and MW:T is the TT computerized) but you have massive penlties when overheating or running too hot. All of that is not here since instead of random dice rolls we have YOU doing the aiming and shooting so any of the normal balancing that would apply in TT doesn't here, since this ISN'T The TT.