19 replies to this topic

[G-LOC]

Omni slots locations and my own crazed musings.

Obviously thinking far ahead so please don’t shoot me down on whether or not we are getting the clans soon/if at all etc.

The Maddog shares an entire lower Torso (everything below the twist) with the Timberwolf and yet for some inexplicable reason it has LASER stalks rather than Omni pods as per the Timberwolf; this makes me wonder where on earth the omni part of it is? I seem to remember ages ago reading a book where it had 2 gauss rifles In the torsos so are these where the omni-slots actually are? And by this analogy does the same apply to the Timberwolf’s shoulder racks and are the hexagonal pods in the arm even omni? Is everything that can contain a weapon Omni and do mech builds just tend to be balanced rather than boaters?

the Maddog would be an amazing mech as a compliment/replacement for my current Gauss-Cat build (2 Gauss, 4 ER medium LASERs) Basically the same setup in a 5 tonne lighter mech with Clan equipment.

There are other mechs which don’t have classic omni pods and I would love to know where they keep their omni slots:

Warhawk is a classic example, great big PPCs on the arms, do these get swapped out for different arms?

[Pariah Devalis]

http://www.freepaten...189-0-large.jpg

This is an example of a modular system of electronics. The plug in ports are built into the frame, but the actual electricals and fiddly bits of the component is encased in the module being slotted in. In MW terms, a C-ERPPC will have all the capacitors, cooling lines, field inhibitors, and magnetic containment hardware prepackaged into the gun, and it gets slotted into a port on the mech.

In the case of most omnimechs, some serious liberty was taken with the art, but I imagine how it should really look like is a basic mounting with cutouts that all chassis of one type share. The gauss Mad Dog is an odd one because historically the model of it has its side torsos ripped out, which, honestly, probably should not be. More likely, it has the missile ports plugged by a spacer panel and the laser barrels on the arms were slotted out with a gauss clipped to the stump via a connector. Overall, the mech should look fairly similar regardless of the configuration, with the only change in appearance being the weapon systems themselves.

[Cole141]

As far as the Vulture is concerned, the "laser stalks" you refer to are simply the uncased portions of the weapon. It still runs all of the connectors through modular ports rather than everything being built into the arm itself, but it exposes the barrel, rather than pluging it into an arm case. So I could easily take those ER Large Pulse Lasers off and add ERPPC's if I wanted. The Gauss rifles you refer to are for a completely different congiuration of the Vulture. This is refered to as Alt. Config C, and it replaces the Prime Config's arms with mounts designed to mount Gauss riles, and sacrifices the torso missile slots entirely. It is still very much an Omni-Mech.

Edit - Grammer Clanner.

Edited by Cole141, 23 April 2013 - 06:36 AM.

[G-LOC]

Pariah Devalis, on 23 April 2013 - 05:16 AM, said:

http://www.freepaten...189-0-large.jpg

This is an example of a modular system of electronics. The plug in ports are built into the frame, but the actual electricals and fiddly bits of the component is encased in the module being slotted in. In MW terms, a C-ERPPC will have all the capacitors, cooling lines, field inhibitors, and magnetic containment hardware prepackaged into the gun, and it gets slotted into a port on the mech.

In the case of most omnimechs, some serious liberty was taken with the art, but I imagine how it should really look like is a basic mounting with cutouts that all chassis of one type share. The gauss Mad Dog is an odd one because historically the model of it has its side torsos ripped out, which, honestly, probably should not be. More likely, it has the missile ports plugged by a spacer panel and the laser barrels on the arms were slotted out with a gauss clipped to the stump via a connector. Overall, the mech should look fairly similar regardless of the configuration, with the only change in appearance being the weapon systems themselves.

Thanks for the great reply,

If a Timberwolf has a big boxy LRM20 sitting on its shoulders surely it is not going to be designed so that its bigger than it has to be, which really leads to the point that if it were to fit an LRM 20 to the arms (slots permitting which I would imagine they are) it would take up exactly as much space and really look very similar to the ones mounted on the shoulders, this way any LRM20 module can be swapped at will and placed anywhere on any Mech with enough space. The downside is that the Timberwolf we all know and love would look vastly different in anything but its prime configuration, which is by no means a bad thing it just blows the current paradigm.

I suppose the liberty taken with diagrams is the crux of the matter, it does frustrate me how some of the older BT diagrams are just very crude representations of humanoids with no real semblance to the practicalities of how weapon systems/ sensors/engines/weight and balance etc on a mech would work, it does seem like the more recent stuff makes a lot more sense rather than a single artist creating a fanciful looking robot that would be entirely impractical as anything other than a giant statue.

[Cole141]

No no. Omni's aren't that modular. That would be where Alt Config's come in if there is a Config in the specification parameters you desire. The missile ports on the Mad Cat are missile ports and nothing more. The arms had modular "Omni" slot connectors that allow you to throw a multitude of weapons, barring missiles ofcourse on them quickly, like say I want an CAC/5 instead of an CERLL. That's the way I've learned to understand it, it may be even more restrictive than that.

[TibsVT]

"The Mad Dog's most distinctive feature is its side torso and arm pods, which are practically full modules by themselves, suggesting that the Mad Dog was conceived as a long-range support unit. The torso modules, angled high, are ideal for missiles while the arms serve as extended turrets suited for direct-fire weaponry."

I do not believe the arms on a Timber Wolf are modules alike the Mad Dog and as such cannot be removed in the same fashion. Only the pods on end.

Edited by KelesK, 23 April 2013 - 06:56 AM.

[Cole141]

The Vulture's prime design was intended to perch on an over watch area like a cliff and rain LRMs on the target, then it would move fast to the wounded mech and crush it with it's ERLPL's and ERMPL's. I've always loved the mech myself and pilot it whenever I can as Inner Sphere, with modified missile ports to hold streaks with the LRM's and CERPPC's instead of the ERLPL's as well ofcourse.

As for the Mad Cat, the only difference in the arms is the the Vulture has no form of cowling over the Omni ports on the arms so you see the laser's "barrels".

[G-LOC]

There are way to many contradictions here... I'm getting lost.

Again it could be a very liberal use of the term omni, are we saying that roughly you can change out roughly equivilent weapons, say a PPC for a Gauss rifle but not an LRM 20, are the rules on this defined anywhere? My understanding was omni applied to all types of weapons the only limitations being space and tonnage.

So hypothetically, would a Timberwolf with 2 ERMPulse and 2ERLPulse LASERs on it's arms have identical arms to the Maddog prime? I would like to think it would and the same should apply vice versa. If this is not the case what part of the maddog prime is even Omni?

The only issue with the cowling argument in the previous post is the Maddog's LASERs are considerably longer than the Timberwolf's pods.

[Liquid Leopard]

CTF GLOC, on 23 April 2013 - 02:37 AM, said:

Omni slots locations and my own crazed musings.

Obviously thinking far ahead so please don’t shoot me down on whether or not we are getting the clans soon/if at all etc.

The Maddog shares an entire lower Torso (everything below the twist) with the Timberwolf and yet for some inexplicable reason it has LASER stalks rather than Omni pods as per the Timberwolf; this makes me wonder where on earth the omni part of it is?

There are other mechs which don’t have classic omni pods and I would love to know where they keep their omni slots:
...Warhawk is a classic example, great big PPCs on the arms, do these get swapped out for different arms?

That makes sense to me.
It looks to me like the Mad Dog and Timberwolf share their upper arms.
I remember a configuration of the Timberwolf where it had a bunch of pulse lasers, and I imagined it having arms like the Mad Dog Prime.

The Mad Dog's weight limit could be determined by the torso structure not being as strong/heavy...
Missile launchers and such can be interchanged within the side torso boxes...
The forearms are removeable and have a Clan USB port at the elbow...

In my mind, IS technology could always be customized. Hence, the Battlemech Creation rules in the basic rulebook. The main difference is that a lot of customization would require engineering, validation by simulation, and then labor-intensive swapping of parts. The way we're customizing our mechs in MWO, we're just paying for parts, not labor. If enough people cared, it could be patched to make a bigger difference between regular mechs and omnimechs. Then, we would no longer just pay for parts and put them in their hardpoints on a whim. We'd pay for labor, and the mech should probably sit out a battle or two.

Meanwhile, omnimechs wouldn't have ballistic, missile, or energy hardpoints. They'd have omni-hardpoints, and could swap them out in a fraction of the time. As long as you're sticking with the established configurations, the engineering and testing has already been done. Components would be swapped out in the time it would take to perform normal repairs, so it wouldn't have to sit out a battle. If you wanted your omnimech to have a configuration different from the normal ones, you'd be back to paying quite a bit for the work of engineers and mechanics.

So, since I want to play "mech mechanic" I'd pay almost as much tweaking an omni-mech as anything else.

[Lucian Nostra]

No different weapons aren't going to look exactly alike, the pods tend to look vastly different than eachother and don't get stuck with the same chassis look for the most part.



A good example is the above Nova Cat, it's prime variant is 2 ER PPCs in one arm, 3 ER Large Lasers in the other arm. But when it switches to it's alt configuration B with a trio of LRMs per arm it doesn't keep the same arm structure or get Timberwolf style launchers

[Cole141]

You also have to take into account that the Mad Cat had Marauder arms, and more armor than the Vulture meaning it will be bulkier in almost every aspect and have, well, Marauder arms. Sooo... There's that.


Edit - Lucian, I dot understand what your trying to convey. Those are two compleatly different mechs. It's kind of like saying an Atlas-D is the same as an RS. Or am I misunderstanding you?

Edited by Cole141, 23 April 2013 - 08:40 AM.

[Ashnod]

Cole141, on 23 April 2013 - 08:32 AM, said:

You also have to take into account that the Mad Cat had Marauder arms, and more armor than the Vulture meaning it will be bulkier in almost every aspect and have, well, Marauder arms. Sooo... There's that.


Edit - Lucian, I dot understand what your trying to convey. Those are two compleatly different mechs. It's kind of like saying an Atlas-D is the same as an RS. Or am I misunderstanding you?

Hes trying to explain how the pod weapons work and how they appear... And that is the same mech, a Nova Cat is a Nova Cat, the weapons that are podded on afterwards determine the configuration..

You can't take an AS7-D and change it into an AS7-RS.

Edited by Ashnod, 23 April 2013 - 09:00 AM.

[Cole141]

I know you cant make an Atlas D into and RS, that's my point. My understanding is that an Omni goes into Alt Config when it's payload is reconfigured in a way that the structure of the mech has to change to accommodate it. Like the Vulture's A Config holding three missile pod slots instead of its LRM pod slots, or the extra arm hard point for the B, or how all of the weapon hard points were removed so the gauss rifles could sit on the C.

Edit - Gammer Clanner again.

Edited by Cole141, 23 April 2013 - 09:45 AM.

[Lucian Nostra]

It goes into an alt config when the weapons are changed, it doesn't have to change the overall look of the mech to be an alt config

Cole141, on 23 April 2013 - 09:25 AM, said:

I know you cant make an Atlas D into and RS, that's my point. My understanding is that an Omni goes into Alt Config when it's payload is reconfigured in a way that the structure of the mech has to change to accommodate it. Like the Vulture's A Config holding three missile pod slots instead of its LRM pod slots, or the extra arm hard point for the B, or how all of the weapon hard points were removed so the gauss rifles could sit on the C.

Edit - Gammer Clanner again.

[Cole141]

That would mean that there are at least +100 variants for every omnimech ever. Alt Configs are structural refits of the mech in question. Omni's aren't magic mechs.

Lol I misspelled grammar correcting a spelling mistake.

[Pariah Devalis]

In fact, an Alt Config is, minus all the weapon systems and non-hardwired electronics, exactly the same, ton for ton, slot for slot, as a Prime configuration without its weapon systems and non-hardwired electronics. Basically, all the variants of any given omnimech are omnipod configuration presets based on a standardized omnimech core configuration that is made up of the armor, engine, internal structure, and "hardwired" systems (which vary entirely on the mech itself, such as the Warhawks OBSCENE number of hardwired DHS or the Adder's hardwired Flamer). Any alt config is simply a 'standardized' omni-pod configuration pattern, which means the base mech must remain the same.

Aesthetically, then, mechs should not have massive changes to their appearances between the alt configurations of their chassis. The only visual identification one should have between any two configurations of an Omnimech (barring the mech was custom configured in a factory, and potentially no longer an omnimech per the rules) would be the different weapons mounted on it.

[Zerberus]

Lucian Nostra, on 23 April 2013 - 08:26 AM, said:

I always felt that that particular config looked the most menacing of, well, just about anything. Just look at those HUGE fists and the completely insane number of missile tubes. If I`m counting right, that`s 90 tubes.

If they weren`t LRMs they`d actually be scary... Oh wait, ****, they`re clan LRMS. MOMMMYYYY!!!!!!

Edited by Zerberus, 23 April 2013 - 03:44 PM.

[IceSerpent]

CTF GLOC, on 23 April 2013 - 02:37 AM, said:

The Maddog shares an entire lower Torso (everything below the twist) with the Timberwolf and yet for some inexplicable reason it has LASER stalks rather than Omni pods as per the Timberwolf; this makes me wonder where on earth the omni part of it is?

Mad Dog's "omni parts" are side torsos and arms, it can have different "stalks" depending on the loadout.

Quote

I seem to remember ages ago reading a book where it had 2 gauss rifles In the torsos so are these where the omni-slots actually are?

Gauss rifles are not in the torsos, but in the arms.

Quote

And by this analogy does the same apply to the Timberwolf’s shoulder racks and are the hexagonal pods in the arm even omni?

Yes, both torsos and arms on TW are omni.

Quote

Is everything that can contain a weapon Omni and do mech builds just tend to be balanced rather than boaters?

Not everything - i.e. flamer on an Adder is not an omni slot.

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the Maddog would be an amazing mech as a compliment/replacement for my current Gauss-Cat build (2 Gauss, 4 ER medium LASERs) Basically the same setup in a 5 tonne lighter mech with Clan equipment.

Normal Mad Dog C carries only twin gauss rifles, so you will have to sacrifice something in order to fit those lasers. Given that omnimechs are not suppsed to let you swap engines, that something is likely to be gauss ammo.

Quote

Warhawk is a classic example, great big PPCs on the arms, do these get swapped out for different arms?

They do. Arms on a Warhawk are omni pods. I think LRM launcher is not though (not 100% positive).

[Fire and Salt]

Except that you will be able to customize the engine in an omni mech...

Changing the engine in an omni mech is no more difficult than in the IS mech we have currently. If Rhonda Snord can put a 275xl in a highlander, then there is no reason why you can't change the engine in an omni mech.


The difference is difficulty. Replacing the adders flamer with a ML would be about as hard as replacing a hunchbacks medium lasers with a flamer.

However, swapping the LPL off a mad dog for a PPC would be much easier.

[IceSerpent]

Fire and Salt, on 07 May 2013 - 08:46 AM, said:

Except that you will be able to customize the engine in an omni mech...

Changing the engine in an omni mech is no more difficult than in the IS mech we have currently. If Rhonda Snord can put a 275xl in a highlander, then there is no reason why you can't change the engine in an omni mech.


The difference is difficulty. Replacing the adders flamer with a ML would be about as hard as replacing a hunchbacks medium lasers with a flamer.

However, swapping the LPL off a mad dog for a PPC would be much easier.

"OmniMechs are not fully modular. An OmniMech's structural components: its engine, internal structure, armor and any equipment installed on the base chassis of OmniMech are "hard-wired" and cannot be modified outside of a total redesign of the 'Mech. While customization of these components is theoretically possible in the field, it is avoided as it hard-wires all the 'Mechs components and effectively transforms it from a OmniMech into a standard BattleMech."