83 replies to this topic

[Suprentus]

XSerjo, on 23 April 2013 - 12:14 PM, said:

This will never ends...

Most of animals (and humans!) has nearly the same density: the density of water.

We must assume that all battlemechs have the same density (really, they're using same materials for structure, for armor, same weapon-systems).

Then we have to calculate density of all mechs and compare.

And only then we are able to say: this mech is over/under-sized!


All other approachs looks like brain-masturbation. We have to compare numbers, it's the only way, our feelings may be wrong.

Well, to be fair, you have cases like the Orion that say (from Sarna):

Quote

Technicians love the Orion, because its spacious interior makes performing repairs and maintenance far easier than many other 'Mechs.

So it's also safe to assume that 'Mech density isn't always the same.

But yeah, numbers aside, you can SEE enough of a difference. I don't expect this game to be scientifically accurate. I only expect a reasonable amount of realism, which in this case, I think it is realistic enough.

Edited by Suprentus, 23 April 2013 - 12:19 PM.

[Victor Morson]

Abrahms, on 23 April 2013 - 11:50 AM, said:

hunchback is 100x better than the centurion.

..my head hurts.

[IdolElite]

I'm just offended that someone said my Centurions are irrelevant...

[Iron Frost]

I wish the Cent was a bit smaller as much as the next guy, but the volume actually looks about right compared with the Awesome. The awesome carriers a ton more volume through its torso and legs from both the front and side profile. It's just a function of their cent design - it is far more spread out / stringy than some other mechs.

[Loler skates]

Suprentus, on 23 April 2013 - 11:00 AM, said:

This really escapes you people? That's like asking why the girl on the right is as big as the girl on the left, and wondering why the left is heavier.



Now compare the Cent and Awesome.



It's really not hard to see why the Awesome's heavier.

It's a good thing silhouette design isn't the most important feature when it comes to how easy a mech is to hit right!?

because that cent is just as easy to hit because the tiny waist means nothing.

[Merky Merc]

Just give me a bushwacker or crab so I can have a low/slim profile 95 kph + medium, Kthx.

[Bloody Moon]

XSerjo, on 23 April 2013 - 12:14 PM, said:

This will never ends...

Most of animals (and humans!) has nearly the same density: the density of water.

We must assume that all battlemechs have the same density (really, they're using same materials for structure, for armor, same weapon-systems).

Then we have to calculate density of all mechs and compare.

And only then we are able to say: this mech is over/under-sized!


All other approaches looks like brain-masturbation. We have to compare numbers, it's the only way, our feelings may be wrong.

Ehm, as you probably know according to BT lore mechs are hollow between their internal structure and armor so their density is not constant.

With that said from the gameplay perspective this design decision is still bad.

Edited by Bloody Moon, 23 April 2013 - 12:35 PM.

[XSerjo]

Suprentus, on 23 April 2013 - 12:18 PM, said:

Well, to be fair, you have cases like the Orion that say (from Sarna):



So it's also safe to assume that 'Mech density isn't always the same.

But yeah, numbers aside, you can SEE enough of a difference. I don't expect this game to be scientifically accurate. I only expect a reasonable amount of realism, which in this case, I think it is realistic enough.

Agree, but density-calculation will give us a numbers. That's better then nothing...

The second step were discussed: calculate the "armor density per surface area". This'll give as second parameter.

[One Medic Army]

Let's be fair, the Centurion is a hard to kill target.

The Trebuchet however...Could use a little scaling love.

[Zakie Chan]

My biggest issue is the width of its shoulders and legs, I would like to see it keep the same height but have it not look like a line backer... (I posted a comparison with an photoshop of what Im talking about on page 2)

Mass is the scaling factor, which is a ratio of volume to density. As Bloody Moon points out, density is not constant.

Given the size of a Centurion compared with a 30 ton Spider and a 100 ton Atlas, for gameplay and immersion I would expect a Centurion to be closer in size to a Spider than an Atlas.

[Suprentus]

Loler skates, on 23 April 2013 - 12:24 PM, said:

It's a good thing silhouette design isn't the most important feature when it comes to how easy a mech is to hit right!?

because that cent is just as easy to hit because the tiny waist means nothing.

What are you getting so angry about? Calm your ****. I'm not arguing how easier or harder it is to get hit in any chassis. I'm just explaining why one is heavier than the other.

[Tennex]

woah comparing the centurion to the awesome - one of the easiest mechs to hit in the game - isn't really fair

[Alex Wolfe]

Tennex, on 23 April 2013 - 10:25 AM, said:

lol did you just happen to have that image handy. because its glorious

Thanks. Made that one few weeks ago, on occasion of the April Fool's tasteful "people say Cent is too big, don't remodel, put a 100m one in a screen, comedy!" joke.

Over months of beta I have amassed a huge OC folder that reads like an official indictment.

[Rofl]

What I don't understand is how are those LRMs so big and weigh so little?! Science me that, internet folk.

[Jeager51]

The Trebie and the Cent are as big as Awesomes so that Light pilots mistake them for Assault mechs and pew pew at them instead of the Larger mechs. That is how the Trebie and Cent are 'support' or 'escorts' for Assaults. Since there is no other thing a Medium can do that another Mech doesn't do better (and only one can poptart), the Devs came up with this size thing to give you a reason to use them. When grinding for C-bills you can get blown up faster, and get to a new match super quick in a medium unlike an assault that has all that armor and weaponry, or a light that is small enough to use cover while it runs.

[Loler skates]

Suprentus, on 23 April 2013 - 12:33 PM, said:

What are you getting so angry about? Calm your ****. I'm not arguing how easier or harder it is to get hit in any chassis. I'm just explaining why one is heavier than the other.

I'm not angry in the slightest but if that helps you to feel better so you can ignore the central point of my post do go ahead.

for notice when I'm agitated I tend to use swear words a lot and express my self in FULL CAPS and put lots of exclamation marks.

OKAY!!!

[Suprentus]

Loler skates, on 23 April 2013 - 03:10 PM, said:

I'm not angry in the slightest but if that helps you to feel better so you can ignore the central point of my post do go ahead.

for notice when I'm agitated I tend to use swear words a lot and express my self in FULL CAPS and put lots of exclamation marks.

OKAY!!!

ALRIGHT! ****!!!!11!!11!ELEVEN!ONE

Edited by Suprentus, 23 April 2013 - 03:12 PM.

[Wolf Ender]

I get really mad when I see my shot go through that gap between the Centy arm and torso. it FEELS like it happens a lot...but i think it's the "AWW C'MON MAN" factor that just makes it feel like it happens a lot but really it's rare. Not enough of a factor to balance out the huge overall size of the Centy

[CharlesBronson]

I too think the mediums are way to big compared to mechs both heavier and lighter than them. Reading some peoples posts about how its not too bad as far as volume goes or the look of it seems about right, and for the most part I can agree, but those saying that the size of the mediums is ok as is, probably don't pilot mediums too often.

I have to double take to make sure that a treb isn't a highlander, thats wrong. And if I am in a treb, I don't have the armor to be taken as a highlander and prioritized as a target like one. I vote scale them back.

[Keifomofutu]

Profile is much more important to game balance than overall volume. It also tends to colour player impressions of size. Centurion seems really big hence most players think of it as being huge. You shoot from the front so how big your mech is from the front is very important. A thin waist won't save the mech.