20 replies to this topic

[Avalios]

Heres my dream patch that would only require PGI adjusting #s. Something one person with the access could do in 10 minutes, that would greatly improve(not perfect) the games state of balance.


SRM/SSRM damage 2.0 (up from 1.5)
Streak heat 3.0. (up from 2.0)
Streak ammo 50 per ton. (Down from 100)
(Streaks being 50% hotter and 50% heavier plus half ammo per ton is the balance for having a lock on feature.)


LRM damage 1.0 (up from 0.7)
LRM travel speed 150 mps (up from 100)
(LRM damage is just stupid low right now. 1.0 damage is still lower then normal, but increased speed will make them viable.)


PPC heat 9 (up from 8)
ERPPC Heat 13 (up from 11)
(This never should have changed, fixing JJs was enough to make PPCs a viable weapon)

S Pulse laser heat 2.0 (down from 3.0)
M Pulse laser heat 4.0 (down from 5.0)
L Pulse laser heat 7.0 (down from 7.3)
(Shorter range and higher tonnage is the tradeoff for having pinpoint damage and higher DPS, there is no call for them to be hotter as well. They see very little use currently for good reason)

AC/2 Heat 0.50 (down from 1.0)
AC/5 Heat 0.75 (down from 1.0)
AC/10 Heat 1.50 (down from 3.0)
LBX10 Heat 1.0 (down from 2.0)
Machine gun Damage 0.1 (up from 0.04)
(Autocannons are very heavy and require considerable ammo, there is no reason for them to overheat your mech on top of that. Also for the sake of overall balance pewpew and dakkadakka will compliment each other much better this way giving incentive NOT to boat. Yes i intentionally left the ac/20 out)

There ya have it, all changes made with a few keystrokes and no changes made to weapon weight or crit space which PGI has shown they will never do.

[FrostCollar]

Pulse lasers and the more unloved autocannons need far more than a little heat adjustment to make them more usable. Also, MGs and LB-X 10s would remain useless. Still, the PPC heat suggestions and missile suggestions are good. Does this balance the game? Of course not. "Would I like this patch?" Yes.

[Avalios]

FrostCollar, on 23 April 2013 - 02:45 PM, said:

Pulse lasers and the more unloved autocannons need far more than a little heat adjustment to make them more usable. Also, MGs and LB-X 10s would remain useless. Still, the PPC heat suggestions and missile suggestions are good. Does this balance the game? Of course not. "Would I like this patch?" Yes.

Thanks
Never intended it to be an end all be all patch, but just a shove in the right direction.


Wasn't so much looking at each individual weapon as much as the overall picture of things.
ACs and Lasers should compliment each other. LRMs should.... well.....work. SRMs should be worth the risk of being so darn close. Streaks should be noticeable more costly then dumb fire SRMs.

Edited by Avalios, 23 April 2013 - 02:52 PM.

[Keifomofutu]

Despite all the nerfing of Lrms they still haven't fixed it going all centre torso. LRMs should do high damage(easily avoided) but do it all over your mech not to your torsos.

[Túatha Dé Danann]

Okay, step by step (oh baby)...

Weapons like the AC/10 or the LB/10X are not really used right now, because there is no real benefit. Take out something else and fill in a AC/20 is right now always better. Autocannons need to have a higher DPS for their dakka-dakka role, because they spread and miss. In order to make the AC/5, 10 and LB-X viable, they need to be adjusted right for their range and tonnage/slots in regards to other weapons like missiles and lasers. So, where do we begin?

I see the Large Laser as pretty balanced right now. If I compare the Large Pulse laser to it, the Large pulse got 2 more tons, 0.3 more heat, drastically reduced range and the same reload time. It gets pinpoint damage if the player is able to hold the shot on the target, but against lights, the Large Laser is easier to use than the Large Pulse, because of the constant beam and higher range. I see a heat reduction on that thing down to 6 to be honest.

Similar things for the medium laser and honestly, the small pulse is a joke right now. Same values like a small laser in damage, same costs like a medium laser in tonnage. There is just no point in using it with that puny range.

Autocannons need some kind of recoil, but should get a nice addition in dps. Reduce the heat or better: Reduce the heat per second (that way, you balance intelligent if you adjust hps) and increase the dps.

PPC: I think its allright where they are, we just need to balance out other weapons according to it. Long range, much heat, slow recharge time. Those are not short ranged brawler weapons, but sniping weapons. You dont use it like an autocannon.

Jumping: Include an erratic crosshair while jumping. You don't have a solid ground, you fly through the air! Given those other "tech" in battletech, its sure to assume, that you cannot hit very good. Give the crosshair a lag to follow the jump and add a (tiny) randomizer to the weapon convergence. You want a sure hit while jumping? Use lasers!

Missiles: LRMs are mostly suppressive weapons and have a reason to be used in indirect fire situations. Needing line of sight for artemis that is intended to be able to follow the landscape is pretty... not intelligent. *ahem*

You want to hide from LRMs? Use cover. You want to step out? I hope you have AMS. You are in the open without AMS? You deserve to get hit then. I could imagine light mechs to run away from LRMs, but a medium should get problems.

Gauss: Similar to PPCs - its a sniping weapon. Balance it that way. Lower DSP, but once in a while it fires over long range for high pinpoint damage.

Also: The maps favor sniping. I want to see maps which favor ALL kinds of tactics. You play with brain? You should get a reward.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

I'd settle for any sort of meaningful patch at this point.

It's been like a month and a half where I read a patch that I felt was really making strides to make the game truly better.

I don't even care if this would work fully or not, just do it and adjust again in the next patch.

[Snailio]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 23 April 2013 - 03:14 PM, said:

I'd settle for any sort of meaningful patch at this point.

It's been like a month and a half where I read a patch that I felt was really making strides to make the game truly better.

I don't even care if this would work fully or not, just do it and adjust again in the next patch.

Not to mention a patch that fixed more than it broke...

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Snailio, on 23 April 2013 - 03:19 PM, said:

Not to mention a patch that fixed more than it broke...

You know what's funny? I don't mind things breaking. The problem was, the patch that broke things...had no substance.

If they released a patch with a ton of big changes to try and bring underpowered weapons into line, and adjust gameplay for the better, and THEN we ended up with some bugs...i'd be cool with that.

But when you release a patch that seems to be strictly a money grab during beta? That doesn't sit well, and created this giant issue we have now.

[Avalios]

Keifomofutu, on 23 April 2013 - 02:54 PM, said:

Despite all the nerfing of Lrms they still haven't fixed it going all centre torso. LRMs should do high damage(easily avoided) but do it all over your mech not to your torsos.

I stayed away from any type of balance that would require coding, this was strictly a numbers change. I agree streak and lrms are still fundamentally broken but thats a different topic.

Nicholas Carlyle, on 23 April 2013 - 03:14 PM, said:

I'd settle for any sort of meaningful patch at this point.

It's been like a month and a half where I read a patch that I felt was really making strides to make the game truly better.

I don't even care if this would work fully or not, just do it and adjust again in the next patch.

Agreed, they take forever to make any type of balance changes. Then make the oddest choices of things to change.

[Bagheera]

Avalios, on 23 April 2013 - 02:43 PM, said:

AC/2 Heat 0.50 (down from 1.0)

My Jager-DD loves this idea.

Though the objectivity of its driver has reservations.

Edited by Bagheera, 23 April 2013 - 04:16 PM.

[Avalios]

Bagheera, on 23 April 2013 - 04:16 PM, said:

My Jager-DD loves this idea.

Though the objectivity of its driver has reservations.

AC/2 Boats are currently just a fun quirky build. Not really a competitive mech. Perhaps 0.50 was overshot and 0.75 would be a more realistic AC/2 heat.

As with any of the changes i listed, just meant to get the ball rolling in the right direction......where it exactly stops could always be adjusted again.

[skullman86]

I think the ballistic and missile suggestions are great (streak nerf may be a bit excessive lol), but I don't think I'm sold on the PPC/pulse laser changes.

PPCs- I know there has been a spike in their use lately and there does appear to be a problem with balance, but I think raising the heat might kill the system's appeal and send all the users running to ballistics, large lasers, and maybe even missiles again.

Pulse Lasers- They should run hotter and be heavier for what they are doing. If they are underwhelming (I know Smalls get a lot of complaints), I would buff them in a way to promote their unique role rather than try to match them with standard lasers. I suggest increasing damage and/or lower the cooldown time enough so that their weight and heat are justified.

...I still voted yes though.

[Bagheera]

Avalios, on 23 April 2013 - 04:22 PM, said:

AC/2 Boats are currently just a fun quirky build. Not really a competitive mech. Perhaps 0.50 was overshot and 0.75 would be a more realistic AC/2 heat.

As with any of the changes i listed, just meant to get the ball rolling in the right direction......where it exactly stops could always be adjusted again.

Well, to be fair, I was mostly being funny. Your suggestions as a whole are pretty good, if a little generous to ballistics. And I love ballistics.

[Ancalagon]

I would just get rid of PPCs and use large lasers instead if this actually happened. There is no quick and easy fix; I know PPCs would become way less viable if they had their default heat (even if you could hit things with them in closed beta, they still sucked because people could close in on you and just spam SRMs into your face before you did any decent damage at all). PPCs are only OP right now because of the various builds that can boat 4 or more. Instead of nerfing everything, they need to find a way to make everything else slightly more attractive. Wait till HSR comes for SRMs, then we can see if they really do need a buff or not.

[El Bandito]

This patch won't solve everything,*cough* ECM *cough*, but I want it.

[RenegadeMaster]

I voted "No" because this would cause weapons to become in-balanced, and I am surprised why Yes outnumbers No by about 2 to 1.

Here's why "Yes" would screw the game:

• All missile damage needs to stay at its current levels until damage spread/transfer is fixed. Otherwise all missiles would be OP like it was before earlier this Spring. The good news is that Paul said he wants to change the LRM speed.
  
• These suggestions for lowering ballistic heat are too extreme, except for the LBX10 which could use a buff when compared to the AC20's weight and power.
  
  • If all these heat changes were implemented, I would choose ballistics over energy 50% more than I already do, and that's bad to make all of a certain type of weapon much less viable.
• I also disagree with the changes to medium pulse laser and PPCs.
  
  • MPLs are currently viable alernatives to MLs when crit space is low, but a few tons are available
    
  • PPCs/ERPPCs can be viable alernatives to LLs depending on the mech chassis - They still make for tasty pop-tarts
    
  • I do agree with the decreases in heat for the small and large lasers, as those are much less viable as alternatives to their non-pulse counterparts.
    
  • The presumption that pulse lasers have "pinpoint damage" is inaccurate since the difference with pulse is the amount of time that the beam fires for and not a change in spread/accuracy.

[ArmageddonKnight]

I havnt voted becouse u missed one crucial step.

lower heat capacity and increase cooloff speed.

Then u wouldnt need to mess with PCC heat. becouse people wouldnt be able to boat 6 of them anymore wihtout instantly overheating massivly.

AC heat wouldnt need to be lowered so massivly, though in some casses they would. Ac2's for example have such a high heat generation for their tonnage vs say a AC20 that even with the cooloff rates increased, u would have to lower heat per shot to somthing like 0.7

[focuspark]

generally like the OP idea, however I do not think that SSRM should be buffed until they're fixed. perhaps leave SSRM at 1.5 and return SRM to 2.0 might work. I think i'd rather see LRM and SSRM at 1.0 damage and SRM at 2.0.

[Avalios]

RenegadeMaster, on 24 April 2013 - 11:28 AM, said:

I voted "No" because this would cause weapons to become in-balanced, and I am surprised why Yes outnumbers No by about 2 to 1.

Here's why "Yes" would screw the game:

• All missile damage needs to stay at its current levels until damage spread/transfer is fixed. Otherwise all missiles would be OP like it was before earlier this Spring. The good news is that Paul said he wants to change the LRM speed.
  
• These suggestions for lowering ballistic heat are too extreme, except for the LBX10 which could use a buff when compared to the AC20's weight and power.
  
  • If all these heat changes were implemented, I would choose ballistics over energy 50% more than I already do, and that's bad to make all of a certain type of weapon much less viable.
• I also disagree with the changes to medium pulse laser and PPCs.
  
  • MPLs are currently viable alernatives to MLs when crit space is low, but a few tons are available
    
  • PPCs/ERPPCs can be viable alernatives to LLs depending on the mech chassis - They still make for tasty pop-tarts
    
  • I do agree with the decreases in heat for the small and large lasers, as those are much less viable as alternatives to their non-pulse counterparts.
    
  • The presumption that pulse lasers have "pinpoint damage" is inaccurate since the difference with pulse is the amount of time that the beam fires for and not a change in spread/accuracy.

So much incorrect information here.........
Splash was nerfed in the same hotfix SRM/LRM damage was nerfed. It was splash that was broken not the damage level. Some splash still exists but very little, increasing missile damage wont make things the way there were for that 3-4 day period when splash was crazy.
Most of the ballistics listed are barely used and it isn't because they are too hot(Except AC/2s). It's because they are too heavy for what they do. Lowering the heat will just make them a good balance to use in conjunction with lasers. Since they would then compliment each other.
PPCs and LLs are completely different weapons used for completely different reasons, they aren't comparable.
Pulse lasers do pinpoint damage because they shoot many "pulses" that deal a larger portion of damage to one location. Regular lasers strafe their damage everywhere.

ArmageddonKnight, on 24 April 2013 - 11:43 AM, said:

I havnt voted becouse u missed one crucial step.

lower heat capacity and increase cooloff speed.

Then u wouldnt need to mess with PCC heat. becouse people wouldnt be able to boat 6 of them anymore wihtout instantly overheating massivly.

AC heat wouldnt need to be lowered so massivly, though in some casses they would. Ac2's for example have such a high heat generation for their tonnage vs say a AC20 that even with the cooloff rates increased, u would have to lower heat per shot to somthing like 0.7

I only intended to change #s, not game dynamics. That is something for a different thread.

focuspark, on 24 April 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:

generally like the OP idea, however I do not think that SSRM should be buffed until they're fixed. perhaps leave SSRM at 1.5 and return SRM to 2.0 might work. I think i'd rather see LRM and SSRM at 1.0 damage and SRM at 2.0.

In case you didnt notice the changes to SSRMs were an overall nerf. Yes slightly increased damage, but more heat and less ammo.

Edited by Avalios, 24 April 2013 - 02:05 PM.

[GODzillaGSPB]

Love it. But it's too reasonable for PGI. And even if not...it would take them months! lol...sorry, sarcasm was off 50% today.


PS: 17 votes by ppc-boaters so far. Yeah...I said it was off. I bought twelve-dozen sarcasms, gotta use them...

Edited by GODzillaGSPB, 24 April 2013 - 02:07 PM.