20 replies to this topic

[Felicitatem Parco]

I'd like to tell a story from my brief foray into MW4...:Mercs.... the free version.

I was training with some of my DHB fellows in a 4v4 drop and I wound up taking point in my JagerMech. I was the first of my squad to crest a hill and located the enemy team, and then got hammered hard by the full force of 4 BattleMechs while only managing to scratch one of them in the process, then they were gone. I was practically helpless, beaten and battered, but they were off and away without a care.



The enemy was running a Bristling Caterpillar. You run a 4-man Lance of Mechs at a similar speed in a line, always moving, staying about 30 meters apart from each other, where each man follows exactly in the footsteps of the Mech in front of him. You don't cut corners, or stop to look around... you just move as a caterpillar that's bristling with guns and lasers. When the "head" of the caterpillar locates a target, he fires and then darts off to one side, causing a kink in the caterpillar. This allows the next man to move his Mech to the exact same location where the first Mech fired, firing a salvo, then dashing to the same side and following the Head's footsteps... that allows the third man to move up to exactly where the first Mech fired, yaddayadda, eventually all 4 of you have fired a salvo on the same target and are already moving to cover before they can mount a response.

The Bristling Caterpillar is meant specifically to hit a single target 4 times while keeping your whole team in motion and not allowing the enemy return fire to become focused on any of your teammates. You focus on one of them easily enough, but they can't focus on one of you very well - the Head, although the first target to present himself to the enemy, will be the first one to get to cover, and the other 3 Mechs in line will all share return fire rather equally.

The key focuses here is to maintain a consistent and evenly-spaced line and to not cut corners when you're following someone, and also for the Head to always keep moving. If you cut corners, you will compress the line and increase the chances of causing friendly fire and blocking people's shots. If the head stops, then everything clumps up and you become vulnerable to enemy return fire.

This technique works best with Cavalry-type Mechs with fast engines and lots of hitting power. The hit-and-run philosophy works well for flanking attacks where your whole lance just pops out around from behind a hill, dumps 4 volleys into an unsuspecting enemy, loops around backward, then has already disappeared back to whence they came before the enemy can bring multiple weapons platforms to bear on your location.

You don't need Voice Comms to pull this off, just 1 person to volunteer as the Head and 3 faithful followers who will trust the Head to not lead them directly into the enemy's clutches. So long as the head does hit-and-run fighting and lets everyone cool off enough between strike runs, you can make any random Pick Up Game crew look like a big stompy Premade slaughterhouse.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 23 April 2013 - 08:45 PM.

[Drollzy]

interesting... very viable thanks for sharing

[Ohari]

I've actually be apart of this in game...and inadvertently while PUGing. Someone said follow me...and I did. next thing i know Im walking in a conga line shooting people. BUT I had no clue to the tactic and eventually broke formation...I died.

[Rushin Roulette]

Its a good tactic.

The best counter for this tactic would be a catterpillar funnel I guess (name could be something else). The idea is to place your team left and right behind a bottleneck which either forces the catterpillar through the funnel and through the crossfire or to go a long way around.

So that the defenders dont shoot each other, the plan is to shoot once at the caterpillar head, turn and then shoot again from behind once that mech has passed and another shot at the rear of the caterpillar tail. Fast mechs can then pursue the tail and finish him off from behind as this will either force the caterpillar to sacrifice the tail, turn 180 degrees and back to teh funnel or force the tail to break ranks.

This funnel tactic distributes the damage on the caterpillar head on the front and back, which is a down side. On the up side however, the damage to your ambush team is also distributed just as evenly because you are turning yourself.

[ohtochooseaname]

ECM can make the caterpillar more dangerous to implement: there isn't really time to scout, so you can get surprised by a bunch of enemies in a place you didn't expect, and run headlong into them.

[Khanublikhan]

This caterpillar tactic breaks down when the lead mech cannot turn and disengage (Frozen City tunnel).

Counter the caterpillar (line astern - battleship formation) with a line abreast. Focus fire the lead mech. Any lead mech turning aside should suffer heavy front torso damage / ideally lose an arm.

The line abreast defender formation should torso twist heavily between shots to spread damage.

The caterpillar conga would also make a predictable path for an artillery strike or air strike.

Edited by Khanublikhan, 24 April 2013 - 12:01 PM.

[Tremendous Upside]

Khanublikhan, on 24 April 2013 - 12:00 PM, said:

This caterpillar tactic breaks down when the lead mech cannot turn and disengage (Frozen City tunnel).

Counter the caterpillar (line astern - battleship formation) with a line abreast. Focus fire the lead mech. Any lead mech turning aside should suffer heavy front torso damage / ideally lose an arm.

The line abreast defender formation should torso twist heavily between shots to spread damage.

The caterpillar conga would also make a predictable path for an artillery strike or air strike.

Jump jets fix this problem. It's why I run highlanders now. No ones blocking mah shots!!!

[Artgathan]

I believe this tactic is referred to as an Australian Peel-Back (or Center-Peel depending on how you learned it). It's used by RL military units (typically to perform a retreat in response to an ambush) and it's extremely effective. The only way to really counter it in a head-on engagement is to have a superior volume of fire in comparison to the guys performing the Peel.

Apart from that, flanking the caterpillar can be effective, but a smart formation will quickly turn and engage the threat (again, just as military units do). Typically this will involving charging through the enemy that is flanking you in order to regroup, while doing the greatest amount of damage possible while moving through them.

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

I could see this as very effective with a group of disciplined pilots in 80-100 kph mechs.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Artgathan, on 24 April 2013 - 02:22 PM, said:

I believe this tactic is referred to as an Australian Peel-Back (or Center-Peel depending on how you learned it). It's used by RL military units (typically to perform a retreat in response to an ambush) and it's extremely effective. The only way to really counter it in a head-on engagement is to have a superior volume of fire in comparison to the guys performing the Peel.

Apart from that, flanking the caterpillar can be effective, but a smart formation will quickly turn and engage the threat (again, just as military units do). Typically this will involving charging through the enemy that is flanking you in order to regroup, while doing the greatest amount of damage possible while moving through them.

Yeah, it's similar, but you don't always have to peel back. In the example I mentioned, it involved a unit breaking off to one side in order to open a lane of fire for the next Mech in line, but if the Carterpillar was traveling laterally and came across a target perpendicular to their line of travel, they could just keep moving in a straight line and take pot-shots off to that side as they move straight to cover instead of breaking off and having to turn toward cover.

This is an effective way to "explore" gaps between hills or buildings from a few hundred meters away instead of traveling parallel to the path between the hills because if you do see an enemy, you'll be moving a high speed already, you'll be moving toward the next cover already, and 4 of you will get to pull-off shots.

[Cyke]

It looks like it can be effective, but I doubt it's likely for a lance of four random PUGs to pull off correctly!
And in PUGs, unfortunately we only get that lance once, and often we never see them again even if we worked magic together..

You'd probably still need to add 'em all to Friends and arrange for a few 4-man drops to pull off any sort of coordinated maneuvers like this..

Still, I guess it all depends on the type of players your 3 random lancemates happen to be..

[NinetyProof]

I don't see how anybody would view this as a valid tactic in the current MWO game. Sounds nice to talk about in theory, but if you actually take it into a game, on a map, against real live opponents it not only breaks down completely, but actually will kill the other person slower and allow *more* overall incoming damage to land.

In a 4 on 1 scenario, the OP shows an example of each person in the Lance landing 1 Salvo each on the Opponent Mech and maybe the Opponent Mech landing 2 or more Salvos on "different" targets. Essentially this is a: 4 each 1 v 1 encounter.

Versus a 4 on 1 scenario, where all 4 have a "firing aspect" on the one target which is essentially a: 1 each 4 v 1 encounter.

Hmm ... 4 each 1v1 or 1 each 4v1 ... which is better?

I don't think anybody would say the 4 each 1v1 is better then the 1 each 4v1 scenario. If you roll up on an enemy, facing you or not, in a staggered line with 4 mech each having a firing solution, the other mech is probably not lasting two salvos and the opponent probably only got off 1 Salvo in return.

Furthermore, I don't think there is a single situation you can setup on a single map where you could illustrate this actually being a "good" tactic. Go ahead and try .. pick a map ... pick a choke point / ridge. Pick the ideal situation. Then layout the Caterpillar tactic vs a staggered firing line situation and see which is better.

I don't think you could demonstrate, under "ideal" conditions that this tactic is better then a standard staggered firing formation. The theory sounds good, but in practice it would be terrible in application.

[Artgathan]

NinetyProof, on 25 April 2013 - 11:12 AM, said:

I don't see how anybody would view this as a valid tactic in the current MWO game. Sounds nice to talk about in theory, but if you actually take it into a game, on a map, against real live opponents it not only breaks down completely, but actually will kill the other person slower and allow *more* overall incoming damage to land.

In a 4 on 1 scenario, the OP shows an example of each person in the Lance landing 1 Salvo each on the Opponent Mech and maybe the Opponent Mech landing 2 or more Salvos on "different" targets. Essentially this is a: 4 each 1 v 1 encounter.

Versus a 4 on 1 scenario, where all 4 have a "firing aspect" on the one target which is essentially a: 1 each 4 v 1 encounter.

Hmm ... 4 each 1v1 or 1 each 4v1 ... which is better?

I don't think anybody would say the 4 each 1v1 is better then the 1 each 4v1 scenario. If you roll up on an enemy, facing you or not, in a staggered line with 4 mech each having a firing solution, the other mech is probably not lasting two salvos and the opponent probably only got off 1 Salvo in return.

Furthermore, I don't think there is a single situation you can setup on a single map where you could illustrate this actually being a "good" tactic. Go ahead and try .. pick a map ... pick a choke point / ridge. Pick the ideal situation. Then layout the Caterpillar tactic vs a staggered firing line situation and see which is better.

I don't think you could demonstrate, under "ideal" conditions that this tactic is better then a standard staggered firing formation. The theory sounds good, but in practice it would be terrible in application.

How exactly would a standard staggered firing formation all draw lines of fire onto a target in an urban environment or while traversing a narrow choke point?

[Drollzy]

Next to impposible to organise in a random PUG drop but I think some lances on comms could pull it off. You would have to be in centurians or atleast 90KPH plus and with regards to enemy lights drag them away from their support then wolf pack them with your 8 fast mechs once done reform your catapillar to take out the heavies. It does sound interesting in theory but against another 8 man on comms you would only be able to pull it off once. Second time round they will be tighter... against other pugs or a team that is scattered this would be bloody murder With the way sniping is at the moment though not too sure...lol might have to try it with some of the guys for a laugh you never know.....

[Phoenix Gray]

It sounds like the old horse cavalry "caracole". The ability to pour a series of attacks into one target is a plus, but the fact that 3/4 of the lance is not firing at any given moment seriously dilutes both the firepower and suppressive value of the total attack. If your target unit has friends you could be in for a surprise.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Yeah, this tactic is viable under the right circumstances, as in when you're going from cover-to-cover in a sweeping pattern. It's not a good tactic to charge an encampment head-on because you'll get smashed... crossing the enemy's T is a bad idea.

Some say it's only good on paper, but it sure worked well against me in actual combat, and it's worked for me as well. You have to use terrain to your advantage, or rather, learn to work with disadvantageous terrain. It's always better to run 4 Mechs abreast if you have the chance, yet you can't fit 4 Mech abreast through chokepoints and you can't all move to cover spontaneously without bumping each other's shoulders.

The Bristling Caterpillar is most effective for attacking flanks because it requires fast movement to be effective and can be effective without having to form a grouped clump of Mechs. The point of this attack is not to eliminate your enemy, but rather to allow you to locate, strike, and retreat rapidly to maximize the local (delivered/received) fire ratio.

Assault Mechs should not use this approach, but fast Mediums or Heavies (specifically XL Dragons) and even Lights can use this very well.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 26 April 2013 - 10:17 AM.

[Phoenix Gray]

Attack in echelon off the lead mech would probably work better.

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

Phoenix Gray, on 26 April 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:

Attack in echelon off the lead mech would probably work better.

With voice comms and especially on open maps, you're probably right ... but with a PUG team, it would be a bit difficult to coordinate, compared to "everyone go XX kph, stay XX m from the mech in front of you, follow the leader, and shoot what he shoots in turn".

[barnmaddo]

Seems good, but this wouldn't work so well with slow mechs, where the enemy can form up into a firing line before the rest of the line can get back into cover.

How do you handle someone following the last mech around and shooting it's legs?

Edited by barnmaddo, 26 April 2013 - 06:37 PM.

[Tarl Cabot]

Different games, different approaches. What the OP posted can be used in MWO, to a point. How many time have you seen a comrade engage an enemy who is in a crevasse and stay there instead of moving on as he is getting pounded while blocking everyone else shots?

In MPBT Solaris, the terrain was flat for the most part nor did the weapons did have the extended ranges as they do in MWO, lance formations were used often when it was med/hvy/assaults/true lance. For lights once contact was made predesignated targets it was (generally knew who were the better lights).

None of the above will really work in MWO except for the lance coordination, the calling of primary targets and focus fire. That is where actual teams shine added on top of choke points, tons of cover and communication, even those without TS/VOIP. If enough can be communicated via chat to get the 2 lances to a specific location and wait for ones/twos to come around/over the corner, that guarantees a field of fire and focus fire without lots of communication. Just takes some patience.