152 replies to this topic

[qki]

Don't get too upset about it. Found a neat article on scrubs recently (in relation to fighting games), though I can't seem to find it at the moment. Basically, it defined a scrub as someone who has misconceptions about the game, and it's rules.

Basically, the whole argument comes down to people complaining that the enemy doesn't play the way THEY want him to play. Said way involving conveniently walking towards their shooty mechs and their guns, instead of utilising the assets they have.

And trying to pass that off as "no skill in capping" - desperate to make the cappers look like bad players, who are afraid to face the "skilled" in combat. As if skill was only found in manual dexterity to execute precise mouse movements and key presses (ie aiming and movement). Darwin would be proud. Sun Tzu - not so much.


And the dreaded "turbo cap" actually happens on the rare occasion, when both teams comletely miss eachother and find themselves staring at an empty base, knowing that the enemy is likewise looking at an empty base, and there's just no way to make it back in time, so the only option is to pile in and hope you cap faster.


Such a thing could be remedied by not increasing the speed of the cap for additional players, and maybe tweaking the base speed (possibly up) so falling back is always possible, but not making the cap too slow to be any real threat - remember that the whole tactic depends on forcing a reaction - ideally drawing a portion of the enemy force back, splitting their strength and making it easier for your team (unless they suck so bad that when they are handed a 7v4 situation, the best they can do is get 2 of themselves killed). That, or finding the enemy force all tied up and unable to make it back in time. Either way - they've been outplayed.

But the usual "strategy" here is to go cry on the forums and hope the devs remove from the game eerything that's causing you problems.

[Tatula]

But all Homeless Bill is asking for is a THIRD game mode. He never mentioned getting rid of the current two game modes. Why is having a King of the Hill game mode a bad thing? I sure wouldn't mind more variety.

[8RoundsRapid]

Aloha, on 25 April 2013 - 07:55 AM, said:

But all Homeless Bill is asking for is a THIRD game mode. He never mentioned getting rid of the current two game modes. Why is having a King of the Hill game mode a bad thing? I sure wouldn't mind more variety.

It's not a bad thing, and I too would like some more variety before I install this game again.

I used to think having more game modes would fracture the player base more than necessary, but I don't believe that any longer. After playing some other f2p games that have respawns (gasp!), multiple game modes (arcade and sim, to name 2), and add elements of pve directly into the pvp scenarios, I realize those games aren't fractured or harmed by the multiple game modes. On the contrary, they are thriving and offer something for eveybody. Why can't MWO do that?

[Yokaiko]

Aloha, on 25 April 2013 - 07:55 AM, said:

But all Homeless Bill is asking for is a THIRD game mode. He never mentioned getting rid of the current two game modes. Why is having a King of the Hill game mode a bad thing? I sure wouldn't mind more variety.

Changed the OP completely, originally he was calling for caps to be removed from assault so he could slowly plod around and try to win by sheer weight.

[Homeless Bill]

Yokaiko, on 25 April 2013 - 10:03 AM, said:

Changed the OP completely, originally he was calling for caps to be removed from assault so he could slowly plod around and try to win by sheer weight.

Because I totally don't care which one happens. I wrote it that way because if there can only be two game modes, only one of them should be capture frenzy. Other people in the thread suggested it should be added instead of taking over Assault's position, and I'm totally down with that.

And as I've stated over and over in this post, I don't run slow things. If you're going to argue against my idea, at least counter the content instead of peddling your ********, ad hominem attacks.

No one has answered my question yet, so I'll ask it again: Why not? Why do you people seem so intent on keeping barbarians like me in your game mode. All I'm doing is ******* in the pool. Get me out and throw me in a cage with the other animals so you can have your civilized game. What negative effect will it have to give us a mode that we enjoy? Why do you insist on making everyone play like you do?

[qki]

I did - sorta. Because light mechs are balanced around their ability to create chaos - the whole role warfare thing, where different mechs are viable. Part of that is to initiate caps when nobody is looking.

If you take that away, light mechs just become 30% of an assault mech. Fast, but lightly armed and armoured. And scouting is not as great as some people think - you can guess where the enemy is easy enough. Which limits the light 'mech to causing distractions by firing at the rear and making the enemy turn around - and that's very different from entering the cap zone and forcing a reaction, or taking advantage and capping when the enemy is tied up.

[Tatula]

qki, on 25 April 2013 - 11:56 AM, said:

I did - sorta. Because light mechs are balanced around their ability to create chaos - the whole role warfare thing, where different mechs are viable. Part of that is to initiate caps when nobody is looking.

If you take that away, light mechs just become 30% of an assault mech. Fast, but lightly armed and armoured. And scouting is not as great as some people think - you can guess where the enemy is easy enough. Which limits the light 'mech to causing distractions by firing at the rear and making the enemy turn around - and that's very different from entering the cap zone and forcing a reaction, or taking advantage and capping when the enemy is tied up.

Then don't play a light in Assault mode. The Conquest mode is perfect for lights. What you are insisting is that you like to play lights and you want to play in Assault mode to punish the people who doesn't like to play lights.

[hercules1981]

Yokaiko, on 25 April 2013 - 10:03 AM, said:

Changed the OP completely, originally he was calling for caps to be removed from assault so he could slowly plod around and try to win by sheer weight.

Any 1who would actually want a mode without caps is crazy cause there could always be that 1 guy that could sneak off when the battle goes bad for his team and hide/shutdown till the end of the match then every1 in that match needs to wait till the 15 min timer is up. I don't think so, the only way of besides making a 3rd game would be to put in a no cap 3 min timer, mayb 4 for the big maps just so there is a chance for fighting b4 cap happens but having another game mode would b the best in my eyes and leave assult alone because as I said in this thread b4 I'm almost positive I have seen it written that there will be turrets base defence of some sort so it will change the way assult plays out even if its just a little bit.

Edited by hercules1981, 25 April 2013 - 06:03 PM.

[Fabe]

What would every one think if in addition to having one large cap point in the middle of the map there where some small cap points that would give some sort of bonus to the team who controlled them? Maybe each one gave the same benefits as the capture accelerator module. Or what if the cap point was behind a large walled of area with wall so high that Spiders have dreams about being able to jump them.There would be two main gates one for each team but there would also be secondary access points with control points that need to be capped to open them allowing for alternate ways in.

These idea could make for additional strategy and tactics while giving players who like to cap in light some thing to do.

[Crunk Prime]

Bill, dont even waste your time responding yo Yokaiko, Qki, JosephMilan and the like. They are trolls, and all they do is troll.

They go into any thread they can and bring down and ruin any kind of conversation they can.

Did you know that to join the goons, one of the requirements is to come onto this forum and purposefully de-rail at least one thread?

[Homeless Bill]

Crunk Prime, on 25 April 2013 - 08:04 PM, said:

Bill, dont even waste your time responding yo Yokaiko, Qki, JosephMilan and the like. They are trolls, and all they do is troll.

They go into any thread they can and bring down and ruin any kind of conversation they can.

Did you know that to join the goons, one of the requirements is to come onto this forum and purposefully de-rail at least one thread?

None of my friends or family like to argue IRL. Sometimes, I just enjoy fighting. Even when it's a forum troll. I know; it's sick. But I can't help myself. Four years of debate did awful things to me.

[qki]

Troll harder yo.

I don't derail every thread I see, but I have a thing for bringing down the pretentious crybabies. People who come on like they're the smartest being on earth, and their simple, 100% foolproof solution to all the game's problems, and 4 lines into the post it becomes apparent they have not even takien two minutes to consider the impact of the proposed changes on the actual game.

And the proper term is Devil's Advocate, not troll.

[Crunk Prime]

qki, on 26 April 2013 - 01:29 AM, said:

Troll harder yo.

I don't derail every thread I see, but I have a thing for bringing down the pretentious crybabies. People who come on like they're the smartest being on earth, and their simple, 100% foolproof solution to all the game's problems, and 4 lines into the post it becomes apparent they have not even takien two minutes to consider the impact of the proposed changes on the actual game.

And the proper term is Devil's Advocate, not troll.

You just proved yourself wrong.

[Inkarnus]

@op what would the team do without bases think about that!
Yes they would get to the uglyst camper spot on the map they can reach first
and sit there in a killbox for ppl to come oh wait thats what they do now
already.Then blame about the cappers
that they cap while getting no rewards still you sit there in your killbox.
Nice strategy how about evolving it? or maybe not dropping
with 400 man lance? or only assault lances?

[Yokaiko]

Crunk Prime, on 25 April 2013 - 08:04 PM, said:

Bill, dont even waste your time responding yo Yokaiko, Qki, JosephMilan and the like. They are trolls, and all they do is troll.

They go into any thread they can and bring down and ruin any kind of conversation they can.

Did you know that to join the goons, one of the requirements is to come onto this forum and purposefully de-rail at least one thread?

I thought you quit?

But I am trolling?

[Crunk Prime]

I did quit.

But Id like the game to be better so I can come back to it and play it again some day and even play against all of you.

People trolling everything doesn't accomplish anything.

[jay35]

Crunk Prime, on 24 April 2013 - 04:40 AM, said:

Actually, yes, we do want a fun shoot'em up game mode.

Without a base to worry about we can go anywhere on the maps we want to go, without having to worry about our base. Maybe on Frozen City we want to go through the caves and ambush them. Maybe we want to go the long way around and come up behind them. Maybe we want to lure them over to that half sunken/frozen tanker ship and fight them in the open where theres nowherwe to hide.

Lights would even have a use as now with no bases who knows which way the enemy is heading. Why dont you send your lights out to find them, and decide if what to do next.

Correct. Removing the tiedown to the base means fuller use of the map's geography and expanded thinking. One can imagine what a scary thought that might be for some, though.

That said, I don't really care about KOTH, I'm more interesting in an honest TDM mode (rather than the faux version we have now in Assault, which isn't actually Assaulting anything either) and a proper base assault/defense mode. Those two game modes are what the current Assault mode poorly attempts to fill the role of. And both of them would make better use of the maps than the current Assault mode does.

Edited by jay35, 26 April 2013 - 04:51 AM.

[xDeityx]

jay35, on 26 April 2013 - 04:47 AM, said:

Correct. Removing the tiedown to the base means fuller use of the map's geography and expanded thinking. One can imagine what a scary thought that might be for some, though.

This is a misconception. Removing an objective means that you are forced to hunt down the enemy wherever they are hiding. There is still an objective to which you are tied down, it's just a moving one (if you're lucky...usually it's more like a hiding one). This is usually in the most advantageous terrain they can find for poptarters, especially in the current metagame. A small percentage of the map would still be used. Basically a pure TDM game mode comes down to patience. It's boring as p1ss.

We tried this game mode extensively in MWLL and when we were doing scrimmages for fun with people who didn't take the game too seriously it was usually fine. As soon as you introduce rewards for winning though people toss fun out the window and the huge flaws of the pure TDM game mode show themselves. I posted this in the TDM thread but never saw a response:

xDeityx, on 25 April 2013 - 11:32 AM, said:

What TDM brings:

-Entire teams of long range poptarters that move to the most advantageous spot on the map and never move.
-Last man standing light 'mechs that drag out the round by hiding and evading the entire time.

Until you can solve these two problems with TDM there is no point in furthering a discussion of that game mode. It's true that Assault and Conquest are crap game modes, but focus your energy on suggesting a good game mode, not an inherently flawed one that's even worse than what we already have. Assault mode is an evolved TDM that solves those two problems above but creates a different set of problems due to players being lazy or bad. I'd rather have the problems that Assault brings that I can solve by not being a halfwit than the ones that TDM creates by being too shallow of a game mode that relies on people playing by a gentleman's agreement to meet each other in the middle of the field and slug it out.

I think the KotH game mode suggested in the OP would be better than anything we currently have available. +1

edit: dirty word filter is ridiculous.

Edited by xDeityx, 26 April 2013 - 05:41 AM.

[Yokaiko]

xDeityx, on 26 April 2013 - 05:40 AM, said:

I think the KotH game mode suggested in the OP would be better than anything we currently have available. +1

edit: dirty word filter is ridiculous.

Sounds like assault hell to me. Don't like it.

[Crunk Prime]

The game already is assault hell.