152 replies to this topic

[Tatula]

Yokaiko, on 24 April 2013 - 08:43 AM, said:

If you made it to base they CAN'T complete the cap, one friendly mech standing in base stops the cap completely.

I know. I'm saying the turbo-cappers can cap so fast that I can't make it all the way into the base from, say, the flat area before the hill on the Caustic Valley map.

[Yokaiko]

Aloha, on 24 April 2013 - 08:50 AM, said:

I know. I'm saying the turbo-cappers can cap so fast that I can't make it all the way into the base from, say, the flat area before the hill on the Caustic Valley map.

Sucks you didn't have a light then. I heard there is something you can do about that.

[qki]

Crunk Prime, on 24 April 2013 - 04:40 AM, said:

Actually, yes, we do want a fun shoot'em up game mode.

Without a base to worry about we can go anywhere on the maps we want to go, without having to worry about our base. Maybe on Frozen City we want to go through the caves and ambush them. Maybe we want to go the long way around and come up behind them. Maybe we want to lure them over to that half sunken/frozen tanker ship and fight them in the open where theres nowherwe to hide.

Lights would even have a use as now with no bases who knows which way the enemy is heading. Why dont you send your lights out to find them, and decide if what to do next.

Because "scouting" is not what lights are for in this game, and you are a noob for saying that. Noble as the idea is, it's not rocket science to simply guess where the enemy will be (Theta on Tourmaline, death valley in alpine, theta or forest colony, theta or upper on river, caldera on caustic).


Standing on the cap is a valid strategy, because it forces a reaction - prevent the cap, or lose. If you can't (or won't) disengage to intercept, Why should I chose to not punish you for it?

MWO is designed to be aa tactical game, and part of what light 'mechs are balanced around is harassment. Not scouting, but harassment. And that includes capping bases.


Besides the rare occasion when both teams miss eachother completely, and decide to rush the cap, because if the enemy is not here, there's a pretty good chance they're about to do the same to our base, and nobody will get back in time to stop it.


That's all a consequence of not employing the proper tactic, and that makes it your (the player's) fault.

Talk all you want about "a fun time with stompy robots", but every game is better, if you can finish the story with "and then we won". That's how humans work. And here you are, employing the lowest, most ret***ded tactic known to man - go cry on the forums, until the devs beat the game for you.



Stop making up your own, imaginary rules for the game, and play by the actual rules of the game. Capturing the base is the PRIMARY way of winning in assault mode, and if you pay it no mind, you will suffer. End of story.

[hammerreborn]

Aloha, on 24 April 2013 - 08:38 AM, said:

I do try to scout and keep an eye on the flanks, but those little ECM'ed lights are pretty hard to spot sometimes.

There is not a single map that you can't see a raven coming a mile away.

[Tatula]

Yokaiko, on 24 April 2013 - 08:50 AM, said:

Sucks you didn't have a light then. I heard there is something you can do about that.

If you're saying that I should drive a light, then I'm sorry to say I'm still trying to level up my Hunchback at the moment. Maybe later when I can spare the time and c-bills I'll try to level up a light. In the mean time, maybe give us PUGs a break and step off the cap at 90% if you see one of us enemy mech coming back to try to defend.

[Yokaiko]

Aloha, on 24 April 2013 - 09:03 AM, said:

If you're saying that I should drive a light, then I'm sorry to say I'm still trying to level up my Hunchback at the moment. Maybe later when I can spare the time and c-bills I'll try to level up a light. In the mean time, maybe give us PUGs a break and step off the cap at 90% if you see one of us enemy mech coming back to try to defend.

Usually if I'm in a light I'm solo dropping. So I'm "us pugs" too. In fact, I drop solo more than teamed.

[Tatula]

hammerreborn, on 24 April 2013 - 08:58 AM, said:

There is not a single map that you can't see a raven coming a mile away.

Sure. If he's standing out in the open. But last I check, my sensors do not include x-ray vision that can see behind a hill or a building. Also, Commandos and Spiders are smaller than a Raven, and they also have ECM capability.

But again, we digress. I'm only complaining about the turbo-cappers, not capping in general.

[Yokaiko]

Aloha, on 24 April 2013 - 09:16 AM, said:

Sure. If he's standing out in the open. But last I check, my sensors do not include x-ray vision that can see behind a hill or a building. Also, Commandos and Spiders are smaller than a Raven, and they also have ECM capability.

But again, we digress. I'm only complaining about the turbo-cappers, not capping in general.

They always have to pass somewhere, I catch them all of the time. I can ring off a list of grids.


No one is watching normally.

:edit

Old grids, I don't know the new grid locs yet.

Edited by Yokaiko, 24 April 2013 - 09:19 AM.

[Tatula]

Yokaiko, on 24 April 2013 - 09:07 AM, said:

Usually if I'm in a light I'm solo dropping. So I'm "us pugs" too. In fact, I drop solo more than teamed.

That's cool. I mentioned PUG only because that means there is no guarantee that we'll have lights on my team. At least not at the current state of MM.

[Yokaiko]

Aloha, on 24 April 2013 - 09:20 AM, said:

That's cool. I mentioned PUG only because that means there is no guarantee that we'll have lights on my team. At least not at the current state of MM.

Me either, that is why I make sure its taken care of.

[hammerreborn]

Aloha, on 24 April 2013 - 09:16 AM, said:

Sure. If he's standing out in the open. But last I check, my sensors do not include x-ray vision that can see behind a hill or a building. Also, Commandos and Spiders are smaller than a Raven, and they also have ECM capability.

But again, we digress. I'm only complaining about the turbo-cappers, not capping in general.

If they are turbo-cappers they are beelining for your base by default, and other than RCN (which I admit you can't see them from a mile away in) my statement still stands.

Forest Colony/Snow:
-Upper team stand near the radar dish, can see the rush from cave or lake
-Lower team stands on hill near arch, can again see both

River City:
-Teams can basically see movement of the other from spawn, if not upper stays on base, lower gets on citadel

Alpine:
-Upper team has someone on either the largest peak, or has somone scout down the road to the left
-Lower team also sends someone down the right side to the same place upper scout goes

TD:
-upper team and lower team goes right/left to roughly the same point

Caustic:
-Factory team goes 3 line
-Non-factory team goes right

I think thats all of them >.>

EDIT: missed frozen city:
-Watch cave
-Scout goes outside ridge line

Edited by hammerreborn, 24 April 2013 - 09:31 AM.

[Yokaiko]

hammerreborn, on 24 April 2013 - 09:29 AM, said:

TD:
-

Plus there is that spot that you can see the edge of the map from theta, I've had to turn my ECM to counter to avoid notice through there.

[DeaconW]

Crunk Prime, on 24 April 2013 - 04:48 AM, said:

I actually laugh at the people saying I should just leave if I dont like it. Well, I have. My game is uninstalled. What now?

Then why are you here clogging up the forums other than to QQ?

[Yokaiko]

Crunk Prime, on 24 April 2013 - 04:25 AM, said:

I love all the founders in here that make it known that all they do is back cap people, and then tell people they have to learn how to play.

You are the reason why I and many other people stopped playing the game. Its the reason why I can go to almost any video game website and ask people about MWO and they ask why I would even want to play the game. Its why I wont recommend the game to friends.

Should have been named Punk Prime. It would suite better.

[hammerreborn]

Crunk Prime, on 24 April 2013 - 04:25 AM, said:

I love all the founders in here that make it known that all they do is back cap people, and then tell people they have to learn how to play.

You are the reason why I and many other people stopped playing the game. Its the reason why I can go to almost any video game website and ask people about MWO and they ask why I would even want to play the game. Its why I wont recommend the game to friends.

YOURE WELCOME!

/The power of GOLD!~

[Agent of Change]

Yokaiko, on 24 April 2013 - 09:43 AM, said:

Should have been named Punk Prime. It would suite better.

Hey i take offense to that the punks are a noble people

we would not like to have any one associated with that crunk trash associated with us.

[Yokaiko]

Agent of Change, on 24 April 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

Hey i take offense to that the punks are a noble people

we would not like to have any one associated with that crunk trash associated with us.

Noted I apologize.

Everything else would either get ****** treatment, and/or not rhyme with his name

[Tatula]

hammerreborn, on 24 April 2013 - 09:29 AM, said:

If they are turbo-cappers they are beelining for your base by default, and other than RCN (which I admit you can't see them from a mile away in) my statement still stands.

Forest Colony/Snow:
-Upper team stand near the radar dish, can see the rush from cave or lake
-Lower team stands on hill near arch, can again see both

River City:
-Teams can basically see movement of the other from spawn, if not upper stays on base, lower gets on citadel

Alpine:
-Upper team has someone on either the largest peak, or has somone scout down the road to the left
-Lower team also sends someone down the right side to the same place upper scout goes

TD:
-upper team and lower team goes right/left to roughly the same point

Caustic:
-Factory team goes 3 line
-Non-factory team goes right

I think thats all of them >.>

EDIT: missed frozen city:
-Watch cave
-Scout goes outside ridge line

Thanks. This is somewhat helpful. I have been trying to keep an eye out for the turbo-cappers, but I don't always succeed.

[Mawai]

I think this is a good suggestion.

A game mode where you can either capture a base or eliminate the other team to win.

The base would need to be placed semi-randomly so that it did not turn into exactly the same game every time.

Tactically, this would be the equivalent of two opposing forces trying to control the same objective ... a generally common occurrence.

The only issue is the one I mentioned above ... the base could not be in the same location all the time or it would get boring very quickly. Ideally, there would be about a dozen different capture locations that could be utilized with one selected randomly for the match.

I also think that it is a good idea for the overall capture speed to be inversely proportional to the number of mechs on the field ... thus only 3 mechs remaining would cap much faster than when 16 mechs are in play. This would tend to discourage a team from just getting to the capture point and sitting on it.

[Homeless Bill]

DeaconW, on 24 April 2013 - 04:14 AM, said:

"For the Love of God, Remove Light Mech Relevance in Assault! I can't counter them in my slow *** short range brawler build!"

Wrong. I run a fast 9M and PB almost exclusively. Speed is my thing - I just prefer to use it for killing instead of standing in a box.

Syllogy, on 24 April 2013 - 04:15 AM, said:

Great Idea! Let's also remove the timer.

That way, even if it takes you 4 hours to hunt down that last dadgum ECM Spider, at least it's True Team Deathmatch.

You either didn't read the OP or your reading comprehension is on par with a 4th-grader. How do you not understand the concept of a single base? It's the exact same mechanism that's there right now to prevent the run-around - it's just right in the middle of where the battle is supposed to be, and thus that much easier for everyone to get to.

If you're going to make a snarky response, at least read what you're responding to.

Agent of Change, on 24 April 2013 - 04:23 AM, said:

Your proposal creates a mindless march forward an kill each other in the same place dynamic, which if 2 bases is two confusing may be what you are looking for.

My biggest gripe about CapWarriors is how stunningly arrogant a lot of you are. You seem to think you're smarter and better than anyone that doesn't want to stand in a box to win a game about killing stuff. News flash: you're boring. I'm more than capable of defending, flanking, distracting, and yes, even standing in a box. When I run with my clan, I play to win because it's what's expected. The rest of the time, I'd rather just shoot stuff.

You're delusional if you think current Assault games don't play out the same way over and over again (granted, 8-mans are a totally different thing). 90% of the time, it's wander up to the middle, snipe it out, move closer, brawl or steamroll depending on remaining numbers. In the mean time, a light may or may not have gotten on someone's base. That team either has a good light that takes care of it, sends a couple 'mechs to respond and gets rolled, or they don't react and they lose. The tactics. The strategy. It's all so fresh.

My idea would at least cause unused areas of maps to see the light of day. There's plenty of opportunity for flaking, ambush, and strategy in deathmatch - moreso in my mind than when you have to worry about guarding the nest.

Agent of Change, on 24 April 2013 - 04:23 AM, said:

Cap speed needs to remain a constant as that way it remains a viable alternative. With lights being brought into the power level we can expect them at capping and harassment are their jobs. Slowing it slightly over all is something that may be reviewed, Won't some one think of the lights!

No. That's the whole point of my mode: capping is not a viable alternative. Capping is a safeguard against the run-around. Want to ***** how everyone will run heavy? Play one of the other two modes (because you know they'd add a mode instead of actually changing Assault). It's clearly a mode for idiots and simpletons; you wouldn't want to be seen participating in such a boorish activity.

Agent of Change, on 24 April 2013 - 04:23 AM, said:

Your last point makes no sense. The base exists as a tactical objective for people who can hold more than one concept in their brain at a time and forcing a team into a continuum of attack/defense. of course most teams don't continuum so they get capped, I say the problem is with the teams.

I'll clarify (also edited my OP): I didn't mean that the current base setup is only intended to stop the run-around. Right now, the base is a perfectly valid way to win; in my new mode, the base is only there as a mechanism to punish cowardice.

Joseph Mallan, on 24 April 2013 - 03:02 AM, said:

There are multiple ways to win a match. Accept that and you will feel much better.

Agent of Change, on 24 April 2013 - 04:23 AM, said:

You seemed confused allow me to help. When you are capped its your fault, most people with functioning cortexes once pondering the question will come to that realization but to address your points directly:

It's not about being unable to defend the base - it's not wanting to. Why do capwarriors get two modes, and gladiators get zero? It adds nothing to the game for a lot of people besides tedium. Some of us are simple people that just want to shoot stuff. We're being captured? Who cares? I'd rather fight like a warrior until we lose and drop again.

Let me say this loud and clear for the "Defend the Base" people: I don't give a **** about winning. If winning means standing in a square instead of fighting, I don't want to win.

Why do you want people like me in your gametype? I'm that last Raven that has a shot at capturing, but charges the last two enemies anyways. I'm that guy you love to ***** at for losing. Why won't you let me have my own playpen, so that you can play your "tactical" version of this game in peace?

I play on my clan's competitive team, so I'm well acquainted with capturing as a strategy. Capturing is a perfectly valid way to win, you need to defend your base, and I'm fine with that. When I roll with my clan, I'll stand on that square until I sink into the stand; the rest of the time, I just want to blow **** up.