36 replies to this topic

[Tarl Cabot]

Konnichi-wa(bow)

Should a unit really be presenting themselves as the entire clan, rather shouldn't they be representing themselves as a unit of that clan? At the moment most of the clan recruitment lines are the clans themselves with the perception of an actual person as the leader of that clan. Shouldn't they be presenting themselves as units under said clan since canon names in game are not allowed for player made units?

Just food for thought, especially if a player believes they have be part of said clan instead of a unit running under those clan colors. The other is an identity crisis, when people come to realize they can not run as Clan Wolf or Ghost Bear except as being part of the general population but need to run as a unit under said clan, and they can not call themselves Clan Wolf/etc, much less Khans .

Example, I am a member of the DCMS (Draconis Combine Mustered Soldiery), the military arm of the Draconis Combine, ruled by House Kurita. I currently am not assigned to a specific unit. Whereas Paladin Brewer is the CO for 9th Sword of the Dragon, a unit serving in the DCMS.

Again, things to consider to reduce the chaos in the near future since PGI will be holding the reigns to the top leadership of both Houses and Clans.

Sayonara (bows out)

Edited.

Niko Snow, on 29 April 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

Similarly to the Houses, the leadership of canonical factions will be considered "Non-Playable" for the time being until Community Warfare is integrated and the game design allows for all these questions to be directly reflected from the in-game setup. This means that no individual player may claim ownership with regards to an entire Clan or House. This also applies for any Merc Corps which have already existed in the lore.

The basic reasoning behind this is that there are many players who have an awareness of the BattleTech Lore and would conceivably want the opportunity to be Khan or House Leader of one of these factions, or to be Natasha Kerensky or Phelan Kell or any other character known from the lore. Additionally, we cannot control nor moderate the actions of individuals in setting up their own third-party fan sites: The question of whether clanwolf.com, clan-wolf.com, or clanwolf.de should be "the Official" Clan Wolf is thus moot; All have to be regarded as fan pages of equal footing and with equal opportunity to take part in their Clan in-game once Community Warfare/Clan Invasion are active and live.

For that reason, no players may claim to be representing "The One True", "The Real", "The Official" clan or house group any more than the next group.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 06 June 2013 - 08:37 AM.

[Kibble]

You are correct sir. This is just the perception of people. Especially coming from other games that do not have a strict policy regarding clans. Clans is a broad term which indicates a group of people and this is has become a staple for many games. It's mainly what they are used to and then to come to a game like MWO where we cannot be "clans" is something new.

Also in the units there is no rule to saying you can't have a khan since I don't think that was ever mentioned by PGI. If you want to be some what within cannon or lore just have your leader as a Star Captain which is what the unit I am a part of does.

[Pariah Devalis]

Indeed, there is quite a bit of hubris to be had proclaiming you are THE Clan so and so, quiaff? Just like it would be peculiar for someone to claim to be House Davion. Representatives of, a subunit of, sure. But the? Peculiar, if you ask me.


No, far better to proclaim your group as a Cluster or Galaxy belonging to an established Clan. There is plenty of room for unique histories and combat doctrines within the whole of a Clan. Hundreds of individual "units" making up the bits and pieces of even a single Clan. Hell, even if there IS only your unit representing the Clan out there (as is the case for mine, as far as I can tell), that is still not sufficient to proclaim your group as the Clan so and so.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 25 April 2013 - 03:46 PM.

[Gremlich Johns]

I agree with Pariah, even though myself and a few others consider ourselves Clan Blood Spirit, we are not so delusional to think we OWN the Clan lock, stock and barrel. As a Homeworlds Clan, CBS does not show in the IS for a couple of years, ANYWAY. You will not see us as Blood Spirits in game unless there is a Homeworlds server or in RP fiction. At least not until 3052. We are planning to be a trinary or binary in one of the invading Clans during CW. Maybe, if the Clans ever make it into the game. (Spring 2014 at the earliest)

[Lukoi Banacek]

Until CW arrives and PGI bothers to enforce their naming convention, it does not matter.

Obviously, our unit will find some designation within CSA to claim once the game goes live. Until then, we call ourselves CSA. If another unit does as well, so be it. It will not be the end of the game nor our involvement in it.

If people are too dense to realize they will not own the Clan name once CW goes live....tough for them. Life does not reward the dullard.

[Tarl Cabot]

Or there will be those who are too dense to start off on the right foot.

Goes both ways.

[CrashieJ]

Lukoi, on 25 April 2013 - 04:34 PM, said:

Until CW arrives and PGI bothers to enforce their naming convention, it does not matter.

Obviously, our unit will find some designation within CSA to claim once the game goes live. Until then, we call ourselves CSA. If another unit does as well, so be it. It will not be the end of the game nor our involvement in it.

If people are too dense to realize they will not own the Clan name once CW goes live....tough for them. Life does not reward the dullard.

I'm guessing that when Group naming is inserted you'll keep the faction name and moderators/bots will check if the GroupSign has any battletech significance, if so, it will be rejected and the group will be forced to come up with a new one. you will have groups vying for names when it first hits, so expect a lot of "1st Rubensons" and "Keyboard Novacat Cluster"

what it really boils down to is "what faction are you from?" because even if you're the most hates gaming "clan" in existence as long as the guy right next to you sees you have the same insignia, he won't care.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Tarl Cabot, on 25 April 2013 - 04:56 PM, said:

Or there will be those who are too dense to start off on the right foot.

Goes both ways.

Regardless, Nature does not reward the weak or the dull. So, why worry about it? Community self-regulation is a pipe dream and a waste of time. Tilt windmills if you wish, but until PGI enforces their naming convention (and for that matter ALLOW unit names in game, presumably with CW), none of this matters.

We choose to call ourselves CSA *for now* in order to attract capable pilots that we invite to try out (we do not do open recruiting in our case). We all understand, we do not get to claim the entire clan once the game goes live, but we represent CSA. Until such as it matters (aka CW), we will use the name as our form of advertisement and group identity.

[Gremlich Johns]

Kibble, on 24 April 2013 - 04:00 PM, said:

Clans is a broad term which indicates a group of people and this is has become a staple for many games.

Incorrect, "clans" not "Clans".

"Clans" are found in Scottish lore and Battletech canon. Anything else, i.e. "clans," is affectation and indicates a group.

note the difference in the case of each term.

"Player created group name" clan, vice Clan "Player created group name". the former is not objectionable. Semantics? Maybe. But the Lore guides the game. The BT fans who know the lore will always take exception to "Clan I call it this because I wanna" - because it is wrong. We do not care if you want to call your group "Clan whatever". Why? Because you cheapen the game. You will never be taken seriously. This is not a Troll, it is just that you are wrong and we are right, whatever your feelings are on the matter - because the battletech history supports and guides our point of view, not yours.

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 27 April 2013 - 12:09 PM.

[Zerberus]

I am Mechwarrior Zerberus of the Clan Wolf Watch, I serve and answer to Ulric Kerensky and only Ulric Kerensky. Any other "unit" (or an imposter, gods forbid) assuming or claiming the right to command me and /or my lancemates will be declared dezgra and annihilated by the entirety of Clan Wolf in retaliation. The sole exception being that Ulric has seen fit to reinforce your forces with members of the Watch and you are the Battlefield Commander, in which case your word is law and will be heeded until at least one of us is dead.

OOC: I don`t care what you call yourself, if you are not a Dev or the de facto leader of the ingame faction "Clan Wolf", your commands to me and assupmtion of control over me will be answered with a challenge to a Trial of Refusal or Grievance, depending on whether your unit is attempting to command me or you personally are doing so.

Edited by Zerberus, 26 April 2013 - 08:45 AM.

[Der BruzZzler von Wiesndoof]

Pariah Devalis, on 25 April 2013 - 03:46 PM, said:

No, far better to proclaim your group as a Cluster or Galaxy belonging to an established Clan. There is plenty of room for unique histories and combat doctrines within the whole of a Clan. Hundreds of individual "units" making up the bits and pieces of even a single Clan. Hell, even if there IS only your unit representing the Clan out there (as is the case for mine, as far as I can tell), that is still not sufficient to proclaim your group as the Clan so and so.

^^This!
For an example, me and my mates represent just a small cluster of the Smoke Jaguar Delta Galaxy.

[Viper69]

Zerberus, on 26 April 2013 - 08:19 AM, said:

I am Mechwarrior Zerberus of the Clan Wolf Watch, I serve and answer to Ulric Kerensky and only Ulric Kerensky. Any other "unit" (or an imposter, gods forbid) assuming or claiming the right to command me and /or my lancemates will be declared dezgra and annihilated by the entirety of Clan Wolf in retaliation.

I think we have that fellow floating around on the forums here. Seriously have you seen how many Kerensky there are? I think what the OP is getting at is who decides who is the official Clan such and such. As of right now you have Jade Falcons, Wolves and many others all with Khans, and rank. So obviously they have established themselves as the Clan, not a sub group of said Clan.

[Zerberus]

^I have seen these "Kerensky"s, and at this time am not convinced that they are not in fact impostors, as I do not have access to our databases on Tiber from my advanced perch here in the IS. I do however find it curious that so many of them appear to be aligning themselves with houses, which leads me to believe that they are in fact either impostors or distant descendants that share the name by chance only....

OOC: I think those like for ex. Clan Wolf that presume to be the entire clan (which already brings up the question of "which one? The english, German, or Russian Clan wolf?" will be forced or at least strongly coerced to forego that designation in game in favor of a specific unit or group of units.

For me personally? I belong to the Wolf`s Watch, meaning that they have no jurisdiction over me anyway (only the ilKhan, Khan, and later the Loremaster do, and it also give me lots of IG freedom being secret service and all, as our actions and equipment are not really that well documented.), so I don`t really care as long as they don`t go completely overboard and make Clan Wolf look like a group of childish douchebags in the process.

Edited by Zerberus, 26 April 2013 - 09:03 AM.

[Joker Two]

It's not like there isn't plenty of information on the Galaxies and Clusters for the Clans either, the Smoke Jaguars have touman listings if you know where to look, and even the Burrocks have some fan-collected data of snippets from TROs and Sourcebooks (I have some links, if you're a Burrock who needs them PM me.)

I don't think I've seen anyone claiming to represent "The Federated Commonwealth", or "The Capellan Confederation." I get that there's a different gaming connotation to "clan" (with a lower case "c") outside of 'Mechwarrior, and that people are more familiar with the name of the Clan than of some Cluster, but it is a problem, both in terms of the arrogance of the players and conflicting claims to command of the same faction. I haven't seen any First Princes, Archons, or Captain-Generals, but I've seen several Khans.

[Zerberus]

BTW, there is one Clan name that I will accept as "valid" with little reservation due to other factors.

That being "Clan Crunchy Frog".

This is the only Non-Canon Clan that I will not really question to any degree.

Edited by Zerberus, 26 April 2013 - 12:50 PM.

[Pariah Devalis]

There is a reason there is no rank of Khan and SaKhan in the Dragoncats. Lore wise, we would be eyes for the Nova Cat watch, but practically speaking nobody here, regardless of how highly they hold themselves or their unit, will be in charge of their entire Clan. No matter how big it is, their unit is still only one part of the Clan as a whole and has no say in what PGI decides to have their Khans tell us to do.

It would be interesting if the big player Clans like the fifty thousand offshoots of Clan Wolf identified their unit as if it was a subunit. For example, say, the 262ed Battle Cluster or the 1st Wolfpack or something. It not only is thematically more interesting, but makes sense of multiple units claiming to be the exact same entity. I would question things if I saw another Nova Cat organization that had ranks above Galaxy Commander, for example. Just downshift the rankings and work within a galaxy.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 26 April 2013 - 01:59 PM.

[Lord Ikka]

Its interesting that us in IS units have been dealing with this for about a year now, and we've pretty much worked out all our issues. Can't wait till clanners realize that they won't be able to use well-known Galaxies and Clusters either. Most of us IS units have already put plans into place to change names when CW comes out and name bans are in place.

[Zerberus]

Lord Ikka, on 26 April 2013 - 02:56 PM, said:

Its interesting that us in IS units have been dealing with this for about a year now, and we've pretty much worked out all our issues. Can't wait till clanners realize that they won't be able to use well-known Galaxies and Clusters either. Most of us IS units have already put plans into place to change names when CW comes out and name bans are in place.

WIthout wantong to be disrespectful of anybody, the more farsighted clans have , too. IIRC the Russian Wolf and Jade Falcon for ex. have already laid claim to a few cluster and galaxy names, as is proper, and I know for a fact I`m not the only Clan Wolf Watch "member". I may be just a "lowly" point commander that occasionally gets a whole star at his disposal, but in the watch that`s all the command structure we really need as we generally don`t go out looking for combat in complete stars or binaries, much less entire clusters or the whole galaxy.

OOC: Essentially any "lone wolf" firmly associated to Clan Wolf would be either an "unassigned" mechwarrior waiting for a new unit to form and being tossed from star to star in the meantime, or a Clan Wolf Watch warrior. With the latter being (in theory) older and more "decrepit", but in actuality likely being more dangerous due to years of experience. Watch members are generally old veterans who`s skills be wasted in a solahma unit.

The same of course holds true for most other clans, but the difference is theat the Wolves more or less always had a watch, Wolf`s dragoons for ex. are our direct informants. The other clans consider spying to be dishonorable, and therefore have to experience true dishonor before fully embracing it, event though they (should) have an existing Watch at this point in time. The Wolf Watch is essentially to a large degree what made Clan Wolf so unstoppable during teh initial Phase of Operation Revival, because unlike everybody else they knew everything they needed to know to wage the most effective campign possible.
/OOC

IC: Some may (rightfully) ash why I as a Trueborn am "without" a Bloodname.... This is not the case, we simply have had our names obscured until our honorable death to all but Ulric and his successors so as not to bring dishonor to our bloodnames due to our "subversive" nature, and will otherwise forever be known only by our lupine callsigns (or in my case old terran mythological, being old has advantages). Funny thing, we actually, well, "ran out" of forboding callsigns, so the new guy is called "Fluffy". I actually had to show him pictures of a Zerberus called Fluffy from old terran scriptures (OOC: Harry potter novels for those that don`t get the reference) to get him to accept it as being of equal value. God forbid that we get another recruit before someone dies so that we can at least recycle something like Fenris or Lupus.

I could tell you mine, but then I would have to kill you. In your sleep.

Edited by Zerberus, 26 April 2013 - 04:11 PM.

[Gremlich Johns]

Zerberus, on 26 April 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

That being "Clan Crunchy Frog".

It's not got much frog in it


and as far as any IS-centric team thinking that the Clans are not getting it together, we do not just "live" in the MW:O forums. We are out here and several of us have dedicated threads on our own forums for Clan-only business and privacy.

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 27 April 2013 - 12:13 PM.

[Adrienne Vorton]

the problem will solve itself as soon as the clan system is fully in game... since PGI plans to design them system-controlled, like the houses, units will be that: a unit, no one can claim to be the "one true" clan wolf or what ever...

Edited by Adrienne Vorton, 27 April 2013 - 02:42 PM.