43 replies to this topic

[Aesthir]

Let me start by saying this: Right now, my favorite mech to pilot is my Hunchback 4SP. Some pulse lasers, a couple of streaks, and a big engine for some speed. It's a light brawler that's just plain fun. So I figured I'd try to level up another hunchie chassis, get closer to unlocking that next level.

Unholy gods, what a mistake.

Whoever designed the hunchback (I'm talking in-game lore, not slighting the developers) must have had some serious mental disability that made him think "Let's design a medium mech with all its weapons in one spot, then make that one spot half the size of the mech." With the exception of the 4SP, all the Hunchies are just like Zed putties: Hit them in one spot and they just fall apart.

Trying to level this mech, it's like I have a paint scheme with a giant bullseye on my right torso. I don't think I've gone thirty seconds after seeing an enemy before seeing that side of my mech blown off, thus in one or two shots my mech goes from having weapons to not.

I lose a right torso on my 4SP, I lose about half my weapons (a little less, 'cause the 4SP's got a head slot) just like every other good mech out there. On any other chassis though, that torso blows and you're down to 2 energy slots, one of which is in your head and can't hold anything bigger than a medium laser. And even newbies know right where to shoot: it's the big obvious box stuck on the shoulder with a max of 48 armor. I can't even imagine what it would be like for anyone dumb enough to put an XL engine in there. Probably bump into a wall and explode.

I get that we're trying to stay close to the tabletop game and other lore, but if we can't shuffle around some hardpoints so the arms are more than one piddly little energy slot, maybe we can have some more armor on a hitbox that takes up half the size of the mech? Just something that makes me feel less like a duckie at a shooting gallery.

[blinkin]

it makes sense with the 4G because that allows it to mount oversize weapons, but you have a very good point with the rest.

[The Strange]

You should torso twist and take hits in the arms and left torso. Everyone knows to shoot the hunch in the right torso. Also, try to stay near a larger Mech, like an Atlas or Stalker, so they take the fire and you aren't the obvious target. Mediums aren't made to take huge amounts of damage, you need to use some teamwork to survive.

[Sable Dove]

The Strange, on 18 April 2013 - 07:30 PM, said:

You should torso twist and take hits in the arms and left torso. Everyone knows to shoot the hunch in the right torso. Also, try to stay near a larger Mech, like an Atlas or Stalker, so they take the fire and you aren't the obvious target. Mediums aren't made to take huge amounts of damage, you need to use some teamwork to survive.

Uhhh... That would work if it were possible. You can hit RT on the Hunchbacks from virtually anywhere.

Mediums are underpowered in general; mostly because they're basically heavies with far less armour or firepower, and with just barely more speed, while being about the same size. There's not much a medium can do that any other class can't do better.

[Spheroid]

The 4P is extremely deadly. Why are you taking all the enemy fire? Sounds like a tactical problem not a deficiency of the Hunchback itself.

[FrostCollar]

It's not the designers fault. Big weapons require a ton of space and thus require large mountings. Unfortunately, that's absolutely not the case in MWO so mechs that have them provide some obvious targets.

Just look at the Hollander. You needed a mounting that preposterously oversized just to fit a gauss. However, when it fits right into a Raven or Spider's MG mount, a mech like that would be laughably underpowered in MWO even compared to those generally ineffective builds.

Spheroid, on 18 April 2013 - 08:42 PM, said:

The 4P is extremely deadly. Why are you taking all the enemy fire? Sounds like a tactical problem not a deficiency of the Hunchback itself.

He's talking about other Hunchie variants.

Edited by FrostCollar, 18 April 2013 - 08:44 PM.

[Spheroid]

FrostCollar, on 18 April 2013 - 08:43 PM, said:

It's not the designers fault. Big weapons require a ton of space and thus require large mountings. Unfortunately, that's absolutely not the case in MWO so mechs that have them provide some obvious targets.

Just look at the Hollander. You needed a mounting that preposterously oversized just to fit a gauss. However, when it fits right into a Raven or Spider's MG mount, a mech like that would be laughably underpowered in MWO even compared to those generally ineffective builds.



He's talking about other Hunchie variants.

No, he is disparaging every other non-swayback version. I have never found the hunch that vulnerable even on my 4G. On the 4P you have to destroy the armor and all the internals. It even has natural critpadding when you put 6 mlas and heatsinks in there as well. With a standard 250 and speed tweak no hunchback should be taking that much damage if played smartly.

Edited by Spheroid, 18 April 2013 - 09:02 PM.

[FrostCollar]

Spheroid, on 18 April 2013 - 08:53 PM, said:

No, he is talking about every other non-swayback version. I have never found the hunch that vulnerable even on my 4G. On the 4P you have to destroy the armor and all the internals. It even has natural critpadding when you put 6 mlas and heatsinks in there as well. With a standard 250 and speed tweak no hunchback should be taking that much damage if played smartly.

Hold up, you're talking quite a bit about the game in particular. It was my impression that we were talking about the Hunchback in general.

Aesthir, on 18 April 2013 - 07:11 PM, said:

(I'm talking in-game lore, not slighting the developers)

[blinkin]

ok because the misinformation is bugging me he is referencing the 4SP which is the SRM variant that lacks the "hunch" that all of the others have. the 4P is the the light bright with the hoard of lasers in the hunch.

[Ravingdork]

I've mastered every HBK except the 4G. They are perfectly fine. You just have to know how to play the game intelligently, and to adjust your armor to suit your play style.

Me, I have 40 points of armor on the front of my right torso and only 8 on the back. I never turn my back on an enemy unless all my front armor is stripped away already. Short of encountering multiple enemy targets all by my lonesome, I regularly walk away with my right torso intact. Roughly half the games I play see my 4H's AC20 use up all of it's ammo (3 tons).

[MasterErrant]

the hunch is a pretty mediocre mech in TT unless you take it where it's meant to be...vreeping through city streets ambusing assault mechs.

[Kamatayan]

I played hunchies from the start and was ok with it. However I moved on to the treb as I was looking for a faster medium. Every mech just plays differently.


Off topic tho, I would like to point out the absurdity of the fact that a hunchie needs such a big obious target to put weapons in; I wonder about those ac20 and ppc ravens.

[blinkin]

Kamatayan, on 18 April 2013 - 09:25 PM, said:

Off topic tho, I would like to point out the absurdity of the fact that a hunchie needs such a big obious target to put weapons in; I wonder about those ac20 and ppc ravens.

I WANT A GIANT PPC HANGING OFF OF MY JENNER!!!

i have an ERPPC jenner and i think it would be freaking awesome to see the giant energy cannon hanging off of one side. i want the intimidation and WTF factor to be more prevalent when i play my jenner.

[The Strange]

In that scenario, I believe the Jenner IS the ERPPC. They just took the cannon and put some legs on it.

[blinkin]

The Strange, on 18 April 2013 - 09:40 PM, said:

In that scenario, I believe the Jenner IS the ERPPC. They just took the cannon and put some legs on it.

it has jump jets too!

if i remember correctly it has a 285xl, 4x small lasers, 1x medium laser, 1x ERPPC, total of 12 DHS, 4x jump jets i think, endosteel, and ferro fibrous. it has been a couple weeks since i last played so the specifics are a bit hazy. it is freaking awesome to pilot especially since they got rid of the wierd firing lag that PPC used to have. most light mechs don't like taking an ERPPC hit to the face. it has ALMOST made my jenner viable against streak lights (i can kill the EXTREMELY stupid ones).

[EvangelionUnit]

Spoiler

Aesthir, on 18 April 2013 - 07:11 PM, said:

Let me start by saying this: Right now, my favorite mech to pilot is my Hunchback 4SP. Some pulse lasers, a couple of streaks, and a big engine for some speed. It's a light brawler that's just plain fun. So I figured I'd try to level up another hunchie chassis, get closer to unlocking that next level.

Unholy gods, what a mistake.

Whoever designed the hunchback (I'm talking in-game lore, not slighting the developers) must have had some serious mental disability that made him think "Let's design a medium mech with all its weapons in one spot, then make that one spot half the size of the mech." With the exception of the 4SP, all the Hunchies are just like Zed putties: Hit them in one spot and they just fall apart.

Trying to level this mech, it's like I have a paint scheme with a giant bullseye on my right torso. I don't think I've gone thirty seconds after seeing an enemy before seeing that side of my mech blown off, thus in one or two shots my mech goes from having weapons to not.

I lose a right torso on my 4SP, I lose about half my weapons (a little less, 'cause the 4SP's got a head slot) just like every other good mech out there. On any other chassis though, that torso blows and you're down to 2 energy slots, one of which is in your head and can't hold anything bigger than a medium laser. And even newbies know right where to shoot: it's the big obvious box stuck on the shoulder with a max of 48 armor. I can't even imagine what it would be like for anyone dumb enough to put an XL engine in there. Probably bump into a wall and explode.

I get that we're trying to stay close to the tabletop game and other lore, but if we can't shuffle around some hardpoints so the arms are more than one piddly little energy slot, maybe we can have some more armor on a hitbox that takes up half the size of the mech? Just something that makes me feel less like a duckie at a shooting gallery.

hunchback is just another money sink, DHS, ES and you can use the 4SP, 4P and 4G with 2 ER PPCs each arm and one ERPPC and medium laser in the head + 250 std engine

just as good as all other ER PPC sniper ...

Edited by EvangelionUnit, 19 April 2013 - 05:41 AM.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Mechs "In universe" are much less accurate because the pilot has to account for the movement they're experiencing in the cockpit from getting jostled around in their harness... they just kinda shot at the enemy and for the most part hope the weaponry hits when it's all said and done... yeah it takes some finess to line up the shot to begin with, but if you're moving at high speeds in the BT universe, it's kinda a crap shoot. [or moving fast for your chassis]

It's not really an issue from the perspective of the mech creator, but how combat was invisioned. Percision as we see it in MWO doesn't exist in the Battletech universe.

[Zordicron]

To the TT design of a hunchback:

One must note, the theory behind the design was "AC20 in 50 ton mech" with this design in mind, "biggest ballistic we can on smallest mech that could still be viable to maneuver and survive" it becomes evident that putting it in an arm mount would make the mech crazy lopsided, so torso mount(closest to the middle for weight balance) it was. Why do this? because this way you can have an AC20 unit in the field that moves faster then 50k, good for support role to your assault mech in close quarters, provides some big firepower to that med/light advance group lance.

So then we take the artwork for it- and it looks like you would imagine if you picture taking a howitzer and fitting it onto like a jeep. The vehicle is designed around the gun, because the weight and bulk of the weapon literally demands so much special considerations that there is no other way to do so. hunchback- side torso is huge because the weapon is, cockpit offset because it has to be, small arms to keep bulk and weight down, sturdy legs(short, fat) to hold up the weight and give a solid platform for the gyro to compensate with.

As for the variants:
it is important to note that the variants are supposedly all constructed by altering the original AC20 mounted hunchie. So, given that the framework for huge gun and all those considerations that went with it are supposed to be already there, it becomes then the idea "what else can we put where that giant open space is" So, crazy stuff like 6x ML comes up, but also good size missile launchers(quite a few tubes on hunchie missile mounts).

I would go so far as to say the one variant the OP likes is really the most difficult to imagine variant, as on the appearance side of things, it looks like the most structural alteration would need to be done to accomodate missiles on both sides of the torso.

in the end, it is mechs like the hunchback that make mechwarrior what it is. most mechs of each weight class can mount similar weapon systems, it is in the appearance and quirks of design that we get the variation in play and performance that makes tweaking loadouts and playing mechwarrior so fun. In the end, if the hunchie doesnt work for you, there should be another chassis that you like better.

[Corvus Antaka]

unless yu run the 4SP life is all about protecting the hunch. the hunchback excels by being ignored, hide behind your friendly atlas, and keep enemies off him. or shoot and run away. spped and small hitbox are life.

use the hunch to your advantage, ppl will get frustrated if yu guard it well.

and most importantly always put a medium laser in your head, you can win matches with that thing.

[Hauser]

Most annoying thing right now is that with all the jump sniping going on nobody advances any more. If I bring a hunchback I'll be sitting behind cover until the score get 3-0 either way and make a last stand as the other team comes rolling in or move in to mop up the last guys.