253 replies to this topic

[TruePoindexter]

TOGSolid, on 26 April 2013 - 09:56 AM, said:

http://www.metronomeonline.com/
54 BBPM.

Oh neat - I may practice my UAC5's with this. Good training on firing discipline and everyone I feel has room for improvement.

[Aaron45]

Carl Wrede, on 26 April 2013 - 09:42 AM, said:

My personal view on it is that any use of whatever kind of macro is cheating and should not be allowed.

well they said they are using the number keys to switch weapons faster
if its true then i ´d say anyone can do it= ingame function= no cheat. Wether its honourable? i dont know anyone has to decide that by his own.

[Bromineberry]

Carl Wrede, on 26 April 2013 - 09:42 AM, said:

My personal view on it is that any use of whatever kind of macro is cheating and should not be allowed.

Same here.

Case a: A macro "helps" you in doing something you already can. It helps you (in this case) hitting the buttons quicker and/or more precise. You can do it on your own, but not as good as the script can.

Case b: An aimbot "helps" you in doing something you already can. It helps you aiming quicker and/or more precise. You can do it on your own, but not as good as the aimbot can.

I never EVER understood, how "a" can be regarded legit if "b" isn't.

Edited by Bromineberry, 26 April 2013 - 10:58 AM.

[TruePoindexter]

Bromineberry, on 26 April 2013 - 10:57 AM, said:

Same here.

Case a: A macro "helps" you in doing something you already can. It helps you (in this case) hitting the buttons quicker and/or more precise. You can do it on your own, but not as good as the script can.

Case b: An aimbot "helps" you in doing something you already can. It helps you aiming quicker and/or more precise. You can do it on your own, but not as good as the aimbot can.

I never EVER understood, how "a" can be regarded legit if "b" isn't.

Aimbots make decisions for you - specifically where and how to aim.

A macro just pushes the fire button for you quickly - you still have to decide when to fire and where to aim.

[Joseph Mallan]

Faster fire does not ensure Head shots at long range on a fast moving target. Aimbot does.

[Bromineberry]

TruePoindexter, on 26 April 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

Aimbots make decisions for you - specifically where and how to aim.

And to decide the moment when to fire the next weapon down to the millisecond is not a decision and action, the script makes for you? You simply have to hit the button...and the timing (remember, hitting someone is alsow "only" good timing) comes from the script.

TruePoindexter, on 26 April 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

A macro just pushes the fire button for you quickly - you still have to decide when to fire and where to aim.

A macro makes you do something, you cannot to manually. Same with an aimbot.

Joseph Mallan, on 26 April 2013 - 11:00 AM, said:

Faster fire does not ensure Head shots at long range on a fast moving target. Aimbot does.

A "rapid fire script" ensures you to be much quicker and more effective than a person with the same level of skill but without the script.

Edited by Bromineberry, 26 April 2013 - 11:07 AM.

[Sir Burpalot21]

This isn't a fighting game.
If PGI would just hurry up and fix the chainfire so that it does what it's supposed to do this wouldn't be an issue.
You're never going to get a purely equal ground with PC games. There will always be differences in hardware, meaning there will always be differences in visuals and performance.
I have a multi-button mouse with adjustable dpi. This mouse provides me a slight advantage over people with standard mice.
Should my mouse be banned just because others don't have it?

[silentD11]

Legolaas, on 26 April 2013 - 10:51 AM, said:

well they said they are using the number keys to switch weapons faster
if its true then i ´d say anyone can do it= ingame function= no cheat. Wether its honourable? i dont know anyone has to decide that by his own.

Quote

Same here.

Case a: A macro "helps" you in doing something you already can. It helps you (in this case) hitting the buttons quicker and/or more precise. You can do it on your own, but not as good as the script can.

Case b: An aimbot "helps" you in doing something you already can. It helps you aiming quicker and/or more precise. You can do it on your own, but not as good as the aimbot can.

I never EVER understood, how "a" can be regarded legit if "b" isn't.

I'm going to let you in on a little "secret"... the more weapon buttons the crazier firing stunts you can do. Of course, these stunts can also be done by macro.

http://www.razerzone...mice/razer-naga

That mouse has 12 buttons on the thumb. Guess what, you can rapid fire the AC2s really easily with them. Better than the macro as well because you can manually alter it as needed while it's going. And as multiple of us have pointed out, you can train yourself with a metronome to commit the UAC5 to muscle memory (seriously, just try it for a couple hours and join the club of never jamming again). With those extra buttons, and a few hours with the metronome you will be better than any macro could ever make you with both the AC2 and the UAC5.

So... that mouse is cheating if other people don't have it according to the sort of idiotic logic people are using to ***** about macros.

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A macro makes you do something, you cannot to manually.

This is a straight up bald faced lie of the highest order. On my main PC at home I used razers software to record my own key presses to make my macros. All I'm doing is using razers own software to repeat a recording of my own key presses. I don't even use them all the time. Because honestly I've memorized the stupid metronome beats and prefer the manual control. I just use the macro when I'm really drunk and just want to scream dakka.

[Joseph Mallan]

Bromineberry, on 26 April 2013 - 11:05 AM, said:

A "rapid fire script" ensures you to be much quicker and more effective than a person with the same level of skill but without the script.

And you have a problem with this?

I use 0 macros. I have faced Macro enhanced Jagers... They are tough but not unbeatable. I have no problem facing them. If they win ok if I win better!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 26 April 2013 - 11:10 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Sir Burpalot21, on 26 April 2013 - 11:07 AM, said:

This isn't a fighting game.

I'm not trying to kill you before you kill me??? Man an I thought I was fighting this whole time.

[silentD11]

Legolaas, on 26 April 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:

Not really, a macro helps you to fire faster and not press the buttons like a rabbit. If ya do fire faster by using your left hand as a weapon selector you will have an disadvantage by not beeing able to moove (due your hand isnt on wasd buttons) A macro allows you to moove and shoot faster.

Again, use a multi button mouse. I even linked one. You put your weapon groups where the thumb is and just roll it over them.

[Joseph Mallan]

silentD11, on 26 April 2013 - 11:13 AM, said:

Again, use a multi button mouse. I even linked one. You put your weapon groups where the thumb is and just roll it over them.

Naga for the win!

[TruePoindexter]

Bromineberry, on 26 April 2013 - 11:05 AM, said:

And to decide the moment when to fire the next weapon down to the millisecond is not a decision and action, the script makes for you? You simply have to hit the button...and the timing (remember, hitting someone is alsow "only" good timing) comes from the script.

In the case of the macro you were going to fire regardless - because you made that decision. That's the key here. The macro doesn't know when to fire. The player must still make the decision.

Bromineberry, on 26 April 2013 - 11:05 AM, said:

A macro makes you do something, you cannot to manually. Same with an aimbot.

Actually you can do it. Set each AC2 to an individual group with the final group set to all of them. Now slide your finger across from the first group to the final group holding down fire on the last group. You are now doing the same thing as the macro.

Bromineberry, on 26 April 2013 - 11:05 AM, said:

A "rapid fire script" ensures you to be much quicker and more effective than a person with the same level of skill but without the script.

No it does not. The macro is a DPS loss making you less effective. Further the macro still leaves decisions in the hands of the player. Aimbots make decisions for the player - that's the big difference.

[Bromineberry]

silentD11, on 26 April 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:

That mouse has 12 buttons on the thumb. Guess what, you can rapid fire the AC2s really easily with them. Better than the macro as well because you can manually alter it as needed while it's going. And as multiple of us have pointed out, you can train yourself with a metronome to commit the UAC5 to muscle memory (seriously, just try it for a couple hours and join the club of never jamming again). With those extra buttons, and a few hours with the metronome you will be better than any macro could ever make you with both the AC2 and the UAC5.

If someone trained a few hours to that stuff like that manually, then he deserves being able to do so.

silentD11, on 26 April 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:

So... that mouse is cheating if other people don't have it according to the sort of idiotic logic people are using to ***** about macros.

And this is the point where I stop discussing.

Edited by Bromineberry, 26 April 2013 - 11:18 AM.

[silentD11]

Joseph Mallan, on 26 April 2013 - 11:12 AM, said:

I'm not trying to kill you before you kill me??? Man an I thought I was fighting this whole time.

I think he was talking street fighter style. You can certainly macro a complex combo in those games, but it won't do you much good. Because all it takes is one second of lag or the spacing shifting ever so slightly (which happens all the time) and you drop the combo, and are now left flailing at the air while the other guy proceeds to pummel the crap out of you. Which is one of the reasons why only idiots attempt it, it will end badly... for you.

The only time it's used is to perform combos for combo videos against dummy opponents.

Quote

Naga for the win!

Ban multi button mice!

Quote

And this is the point where I stop discussing.

Sorry dude but you said something idiotic and I'm going to call you on it. You said macros allow you to do something you can't normally do. I pointed out that my macros are recording my own key strokes and playing them back. I also pointed out how people use multi button mice to do the same thing. So claiming that people can't do the things that they macro'd, is either idiotic or just straight up lying.

You're not alone in getting this wrong though. Most people against macro's have demonstrated a staggering ignorance of just what they are and how they work. The reason people tell people to "use a macro" when it comes to things like AC2s is because it's simpler, and fairer then telling them to go and shell out $70-80 for the specific multibutton mouse they use and walking them through their binds.

Edited by silentD11, 26 April 2013 - 11:35 AM.

[Aaron45]

dunno even if ya using a multiple key mouse. it feels like you have an advantage by firering your weapons faster.

[Apoc1138]

everyone has equal access to macros, either by getting a mouse that supports macros, or downloading autohotkey for free

the macros for these have even been posted on the forum

many many online games allow macros, including this one, they are totally fair... are you seriously telling me that in the thousand plus years in to the future, the pilot of a mech wouldn't be able to set up a firing sequence however he wanted?

if we don't allow macro mice then basically we may as well tell people they can't use pedals or track IR or anything else that makes playing the game marginally easier by taking 1 minor function away from a finger

Edited by Apoc1138, 26 April 2013 - 12:12 PM.

[TruePoindexter]

Legolaas, on 26 April 2013 - 12:04 PM, said:

dunno even if ya using a multiple key mouse. it feels like you have an advantage by firering your weapons faster.

You're not firing them faster. You're just filling gaps in fire with more sound.

[TOGSolid]

Quote

If someone trained a few hours to that stuff like that manually, then he deserves being able to do so.

This right here shuts down this entire debate because the few minor things people are doing with macros are easily done by hand and with a little bit of training and there's no way for any of you to tell which is which. Hell, even my own corpmates went O_o the first time they ran into me running a chain fire AC/2 Jager. They thought I was macroing too until I told them exactly how to set up their groups and mice to do it by hand. Now they just lol whenever they see me running around like a derpy doo spraying off AC/2 shots everywhere for fun.
Same thing with the UAC/5. Grab an assault mech (or your biggest mech), shove one UAC/5 on it, cram every hardpoint you can with ammo and go park your *** in the training ground for a while with the metronome running until you have it committed to muscle memory.

Quote

This isn't a fighting game

Funny, because the same process I use to learn combos in those is what I used to commit the AC/2 firing pattern and slow fire UAC/5 rate to memory.

Edited by TOGSolid, 26 April 2013 - 12:12 PM.

[silentD11]

Legolaas, on 26 April 2013 - 12:04 PM, said:

dunno even if ya using a multiple key mouse. it feels like you have an advantage by firering your weapons faster.

Macro's don't make the AC2's fire any faster at all. If you put all the AC2's on one button and hold it down that's the fastest they can fire, end of story. All the macro does is stagger them to make the "dakka dakka dakka dakka" sound that people love to hear. The same effect can also be had by piano keying on a keyboard, or just binding them to extra buttons on a mouse. Regardless of how you do it (or if you just fire them all at once and hold down the button) the firing rate stays the same, it won't change. In fact, binding them all to one button and holding it down gives you higher DPS than firing them on alternate, it just doesn't sound as cool.

The UAC5 macro is actually slower than firing them manually, because it has a delay built into it to adjust for lag.

Edited by silentD11, 26 April 2013 - 12:19 PM.