253 replies to this topic

[Syllogy]

Sorry, I don't fish.

The point is, no less than 4 ranking PGI employees have stated that the Fast-Fire Macro is not regarded as cheating.

Regardless of what you choose to believe, PGI will not punish anyone for using it.

[Dimento Graven]

Syllogy, on 28 April 2013 - 05:22 PM, said:

Sorry, I don't fish.

The point is, no less than 4 ranking PGI employees have stated that the Fast-Fire Macro is not regarded as cheating.

Regardless of what you choose to believe, PGI will not punish anyone for using it.

While I don't deny that PGI Employees might have said what you said, having reviewed this thread twice, I'm not seeing any PGI Employees posting in it. The closest we get is a forum moderator and the statement posted had zero content on whether or not the chain firing speed macro is a hack or not.

If it was this thread, can you quote 'em or point 'em out? If it was in other threads, can you link them?

If PGI actually did say this, then I am absolutely wrong.

But I've yet to find anything directly from PGI countering their posted Rules & Guidelines on the usage of macros.

[Syllogy]

During the week, and especially on Tuesdays, it is very common for PGI devs to be on the NGNG Twitch Stream. You may ask them yourself.

Also, swing by the Teamspeak 3 Channel during a Podcast with Bryan, Garth, or Paul, and again, you may ask them yourself.

Of course, if you want confirmation and don't need to hear it with a name attached to it, simply send a question to support@mwomercs.com.

They should get back to you within 48 hours with the same answer that many other people on this thread have been trying to tell you for the last 2 hours.

Edited by Syllogy, 28 April 2013 - 05:39 PM.

[Dimento Graven]

Syllogy, on 28 April 2013 - 05:38 PM, said:

During the week, and especially on Tuesdays, it is very common for PGI devs to be on the NGNG Twitch Stream. You may ask them yourself.

Also, swing by the Teamspeak 3 Channel during a Podcast with Bryan, Garth, or Paul, and again, you may ask them yourself.

Of course, if you want confirmation and don't need to hear it with a name attached to it, simply send a question to support@mwomercs.com.

They should get back to you within 48 hours with the same answer that many other people on this thread have been trying to tell you for the last 2 hours.

So what you have are unvalidated here say statements as you can't provide me links to posts, and/or recordings of discussions with PGI employees.

Which as we all know, would be contrary to previously posted Rules & Guidelines.

Until you can provide me an actual in print post from PGI on it, it's all BS, and I'll continue argue vehemently.

Once you can prove me wrong, I go away...

[Roadbeer]

Dimento Graven, on 28 April 2013 - 05:46 PM, said:

{Words everywhere}

Since you seem to like arguing, let me as you this. Are either of these pieces of equipment cheating?



The reason I ask, is because if I hold down the button labeled "14" in the first picture (which I have set to cycle weapon group right, the 'right arrow' key on your keyboard) and hold down the trigger on image 2. I achieve the EXACT same thing the macro would do... maybe even better.

Edited by Roadbeer, 28 April 2013 - 06:08 PM.

[Straften]

Dimento Graven, on 28 April 2013 - 04:16 PM, said:

Edited by Straften, 28 April 2013 - 06:03 PM.

[Dimento Graven]

Roadbeer, on 28 April 2013 - 05:54 PM, said:

Since you seem to like arguing, let me as you this. Are either of these pieces of equipment cheating?



The reason I ask, is because if I hold down the button labeled "14" in the first picture (which I have set to cycle weapon group right) and hold down the trigger on image 2. I achieve the EXACT same thing the macro would do... maybe even better.

As stated in PGI's own posts that I've been able to find up to this point. It's ok to use them up until the point they provide an undue tactical advantage not generally available to other players.

If the only way to make this work, under PGI's currently stated rules, is to utilize macro utilities from 3rd party hardware vendors (which may or may not be commonly available to the playerbase), and the OVER ALL affect is an unfair tactical advantage, then from PGI's rules, it's cheating.

[Roadbeer]

Dimento Graven, on 28 April 2013 - 06:10 PM, said:

As stated in PGI's own posts that I've been able to find up to this point. It's ok to use them up until the point they provide an undue tactical advantage not generally available to other players.

If the only way to make this work, under PGI's currently stated rules, is to utilize macro utilities from 3rd party hardware vendors (which may or may not be commonly available to the playerbase), and the OVER ALL affect is an unfair tactical advantage, then from PGI's rules, it's cheating.

That doesn't answer the question. I can emulate the macro by holding down a button and a trigger. Don't even have to use the macro software that comes with BOTH of those devices.
Does this constitute cheating?

[Straften]

Dimento Graven, on 28 April 2013 - 03:39 PM, said:

Here's the facts:
As quoted from PGI rules:

Quote

Q: My mouse/keyboard came with macro software that lets me emulate a series of clicks or helps me with some process. Is this allowed?

A: Yes, using macros as provided by 3rd party hardware vendors is allowed. Though the use of any modifications to assist with aiming, aimbots, wall hacks, or any attempt to give information or tactical assistance that other players would not have by default, is a serious violation of our Terms of Use and any account found to be using such software will likely be suspended or banned.

That's the fact.

Dimento Graven, on 28 April 2013 - 05:46 PM, said:

Until you can provide me an actual in print post from PGI on it, it's all BS, and I'll continue argue vehemently.

Once you can prove me wrong, I go away...

Edited by Straften, 28 April 2013 - 06:19 PM.

[Dimento Graven]

Roadbeer, on 28 April 2013 - 06:12 PM, said:

That doesn't answer the question. I can emulate the macro by holding down a button and a trigger. Don't even have to use the macro software that comes with BOTH of those devices.
Does this constitute cheating?

Oh I'm sorry when I read:

Quote

if I hold down the button labeled "14" in the first picture (which I have set to cycle weapon group right) and hold down the trigger on image 2.

It sounded to me like the part "which I have set to cycle weapon gorup right", sounded like a macro to me.

If you're not doing that programatically, which, seems odd, as you'd have to setup something in the programming behind that '14' key to send the "control" key signal to the MWO client for it to know that you intend it to change weapon groups.

If you're not doing that via a 'macro' then...?

Straften, on 28 April 2013 - 06:14 PM, said:

Quote

Q: My mouse/keyboard came with macro software that lets me emulate a series of clicks or helps me with some process. Is this allowed?

A: Yes, using macros as provided by 3rd party hardware vendors is allowed. Though the use of any modifications to assist with aiming, aimbots, wall hacks, or any attempt to give information or tactical assistance that other players would not have by default, is a serious violation of our Terms of Use and any account found to be using such software will likely be suspended or banned.

[Roadbeer]

I'm not. all the Belkin software does for the '14' key is tell the computer that it is the 'right arrow key'. Same as in the MWO software does for a joystick for say 'button 3' I can tell the MWO software (in the options screen, while logged into the game) that "Cycle weapon group right" on the joystick is J1 Button 3.

So, holding down the 14 key = Keyboard arrow right, in the standard (non-macro) software drivers of the Nostromo.
All I'm doing is holding down that button and pulling the trigger on the joystick and get equal or better results than the "macro" software that COMES with both those devices.

So does that constitute cheating?

Edited by Roadbeer, 28 April 2013 - 06:32 PM.

[Straften]

Dimento Graven, on 28 April 2013 - 06:25 PM, said:

Oh I'm sorry when I read:
It sounded to me like the part "which I have set to cycle weapon gorup right", sounded like a macro to me.

If you're not doing that programatically, which, seems odd, as you'd have to setup something in the programming behind that '14' key to send the "control" key signal to the MWO client for it to know that you intend it to change weapon groups.

If you're not doing that via a 'macro' then...?

As shown by Roadbeer

other players have

this capability

by default.

Roadbeer, on 28 April 2013 - 06:28 PM, said:

I'm not. all the Belkin software does for the '14' key is tell the computer that it is the 'right arrow key'. Same as in the MWO software does for a joystick for say 'button 3' I can tell the MWO software (in the options screen, while logged into the game) that "Cycle weapon group right" on the joystick is J1 Button 3.

So, holding down the 14 key = Keyboard arrow left, in the standard (non-macro) software drivers of the Nostromo.
All I'm doing is holding down that button and pulling the trigger on the joystick and get equal or better results than the "macro" software that COMES with both those devices.

Edited by Straften, 28 April 2013 - 06:32 PM.

[Dimento Graven]

Roadbeer, on 28 April 2013 - 06:28 PM, said:

I'm not. all the Belkin software does for the '14' key is tell the computer that it is the 'right arrow key'. Same as in the MWO software does for a joystick for say 'button 3' I can tell the MWO software (in the options screen, while logged into the game) that "Cycle weapon group right" on the joystick is J1 Button 3.

So, holding down the 14 key = Keyboard arrow left, in the standard (non-macro) software drivers of the Nostromo.
All I'm doing is holding down that button and pulling the trigger on the joystick and get equal or better results than the "macro" software that COMES with both those devices.

So does that constitute cheating?

As it provides an undue tactical advantage by allowing you to chain fire at a rate faster than the default chain fire rate and avoid the natural drawbacks any other player not also similarly equiped with the the same type of control device, by default the answer is "yes".

[Straften]

Dimento Graven, on 28 April 2013 - 06:33 PM, said:

As it provides an undue tactical advantage by allowing you to chain fire at a rate faster than the default chain fire rate and avoid the natural drawbacks any other player not also similarly equiped with the the same type of control device, by default the answer is "yes".

I thought you had good reading comprehension? What he is telling you is, you can do this without macros by rebinding your keys on a regular keyboard and mouse in the in game options.

Edited by Straften, 28 April 2013 - 06:35 PM.

[Dimento Graven]

Straften, on 28 April 2013 - 06:31 PM, said:

As shown by Roadbeer

other players have

this capability

by default.

Yes, but as stated by PGI:

Quote

Q: My mouse/keyboard came with macro software that lets me emulate a series of clicks or helps me with some process. Is this allowed?

A: Yes, using macros as provided by 3rd party hardware vendors is allowed. Though the use of any modifications to assist with aiming, aimbots, wall hacks, or any attempt to give information or tactical assistance that other players would not have by default, is a serious violation of our Terms of Use and any account found to be using such software will likely be suspended or banned.

The only "other" players that would have this ability 'by default' are those that also owned the same controller.

Not everyone does.

Straften, on 28 April 2013 - 06:35 PM, said:

I thought you had good reading comprehension? What he is telling you is, you can do this without macros by rebinding your keys on a regular keyboard and mouse in the in game options.

No he's not, reread his original post and tell me that's a "regular" keyboard and mouse...

Edited by Dimento Graven, 28 April 2013 - 06:41 PM.

[Roadbeer]

Ok, fine, lets take the Nostromo completely out of it then.

Using MW:O's OWN SOFTWARE in the setting menu. I can set my joystick button for "Cycle weapon group Right" and map it to Button 3 on my joystick... now, I'm using MW:O's own software mind you, nothing 3rd party at all. And I can hold down that button in conjunction with the trigger, and get the same or better results than a "macro"

Does that constitute cheating?

Edited by Roadbeer, 28 April 2013 - 06:39 PM.

[Straften]

Dimento Graven, on 28 April 2013 - 06:38 PM, said:

Not everyone does.


No he's not, reread his original post and tell me that's a "regular" keyboard and mouse...

Everyone does. Remap right arrow to mouse 4, or 'e' if you only have two mouse buttons (lul).

Hold down fire.

Everyone can do this.

Roadbeer, on 28 April 2013 - 06:39 PM, said:

Ok, fine, lets take the Nostromo completely out of it then.

Using MW:O's OWN SOFTWARE in the setting menu. I can set my joystick button for "Cycle weapon group Right" and map it to Button 3 on my joystick... now, I'm using MW:O's own software mind you, nothing 3rd party at all. And I can hold down that button in conjunction with the trigger, and get the same or better results than a "macro"

Does that constitute cheating?

He was lying when he said they taught him reading comprehension. I'm done here. Everyone else can clearly see he is wrong.

[Dimento Graven]

Roadbeer, on 28 April 2013 - 06:39 PM, said:

Ok, fine, lets take the Nostromo completely out of it then.

Using MW:O's OWN SOFTWARE in the setting menu. I can set my joystick button for "Cycle weapon group Right" and map it to Button 3 on my joystick... now, I'm using MW:O's own software mind you, nothing 3rd party at all. And I can hold down that button in conjunction with the trigger, and get the same or better results than a "macro"

Does that constitute cheating?

That might not be cheating. Though, not everyone plays with a joystick with multiple buttons like that.

I certainly don't. Playing this game with a joystick is clunky, though I've never played with the model of joystick you have the picture.

Maybe PGI will answer that for us.

[Inconspicuous]

You can rapid fire by default, the difference is standard key-bindings require you to stop with the WASD for a moment while you start the process...

Sooooo, because you had to move your left hand away from WASD for a moment nobody else is allowed to use gaming peripherals or macros.

[Dimento Graven]

Straften, on 28 April 2013 - 06:42 PM, said:

Everyone does. Remap right arrow to mouse 4, or 'e' if you only have two mouse buttons (lul).

Hold down fire.

Everyone can do this.

Not everyone owns a mouse with that many buttons.

Quote

He was lying when he said they taught him reading comprehension. I'm done here. Everyone else can clearly see he is wrong.

No, everyone with a vested interest in having an unfair advantage over other players is clearly disagreeing with me on this, as yet, no one has been able to provide any word, beyond the quotes I STARTED POSTING from PGI's Rules & Guidelines forum.

****, by your dumb *** interpretation of the rules Crysis Engine mods are ok because "...they're commonly available...", "...anyone can use them...", they "...don't modify PGI code...", all they do is "...aim, and EVERYONE can already aim...", all they do "...is make it possible for other players to see other players, and EVERYONE can already see..."

Apparently all you have to do to make something "ok" is if "everyone does it" and ignore the total affect of it...