18 replies to this topic

[Kristina Sarah McEvedy]

Firstly I'd like to say that this is just in concerns to the MC cost of individual Paints and is not geared towards Camo or Patterns.

Personally I think having two MC costs for colours is silly and, to me, feels like an intentional (and poorly executed) cash grab. The game has an insane number of colour options, but around 60 of them cost $5 USD/CAD each! Seriously guys, $5 for one colour? Comparatively that's the cost of a Champion and most full/complete skins in League of Legends.

In addition, Standard paints cost $2.50 USD/CAD each. Let's do the math here. There's around 60 Premium paints and around 50 Standard paints. To unlock all the paints (this isn't even including any special camo) you would need over $425 USD/CAD.

I am the type of player that will make microtransaction purchases, but not if I feel I'm being ripped off, hence why all of my Mechs are currently without any paint jobs (I refuse to pay the absolutely rediculous prices for colours). Real paints for miniatures cost less than Premium colours in this game do (to compare, Games-Workshop's Citadel Paint range is $4.45 per paint pot, still cheaper than MWO's colours).

Now there's a few possible solutions to this problem.

1) Reduce and Normalize the Cost
All of the current Colours should be moved to Standard and should cost no more than about $1 each. Premium paints should cost $2.50 (maybe remaining at $5, depending) and be reserved for oddity/special effect colours such as those with a Metallic or Pearlescent effect. I'd be willing to pay $2.50 to $5 for some kind of special-effect colour, but not for what is essentially a basic RGB colour value alteration.

2) Allow Purchases with C-Bills
If you're going to continue to charge so much for colours, the least we could have is Basic and Standard paints be rolled into one and having an alternate cost of 1,000,000 C-Bills, while having the current "Premium" colours cost 2,000,000 C-Bills.

Edited by Joseph Marik, 25 April 2013 - 11:57 AM.

[Endgame Prophecy]

I guess I understand making you pay for some of the stuff (the game is F2P and they have to make money somehow), but a million C-Bills for a color? For casuals like me, that means we're doomed to suffer army green for eternity. I can't even properly represent the Steiner brigade I want to join...

[Mechteric]

You don't need anywhere near ALL the paints. Really most people probably do just fine with 5 or fewer paints. In this case they're only making about $10 off of you, for the life of your pilot.

[Blue Footed Booby]

I agree that the paints should be cheaper but PGI is absolutely right to have different costs for some colors.

For comparison, Guild Wars has an auto-economy system where the price for some goods, including the dyes that let you change armor color, is determined by the number of items being sold to and bought from vendors. The price of individual colors varies wildly, but in particular black is far, far more expensive than any other. What this tells you is that if it were the same price as the other colors it would be dramatically overrepresented. There would be much less variety if those prices were normalized.

Honestly I think the best thing for PGI to do is come up with some sort of dynamic pricing system like Guild Wars so the price matches actual demand, rather than doing it by hand. It would be a lot of work to make sure it isn't too chaotic or too stable, though.

Edit: the CBill cost of basic paints is stupid expensive. Honestly, I think the basics should be unlocked for free.

Edited by Blue Footed Booby, 21 May 2013 - 07:12 AM.

[karoushi]

I would basically combine option 1 and 2 except I'd strip out the cbill cost for premium paints.

Now that is a working system that would allow people to actually start BUYING the paints and ENJOYING their mechs and IGP/PGI can ENJOY their revenue/profits.

[LordBraxton]

Blue Footed Booby, on 21 May 2013 - 06:49 AM, said:

I agree that the paints should be cheaper but PGI is absolutely right to have different costs for some colors.

For comparison, Guild Wars has an auto-economy system where the price for some goods, including the dyes that let you change armor color, is determined by the number of items being sold to and bought from vendors. The price of individual colors varies wildly, but in particular black is far, far more expensive than any other. What this tells you is that if it were the same price as the other colors it would be dramatically overrepresented. There would be much less variety if those prices were normalized.

Honestly I think the best thing for PGI to do is come up with some sort of dynamic pricing system like Guild Wars so the price matches actual demand, rather than doing it by hand. It would be a lot of work to make sure it isn't too chaotic or too stable, though.

Edit: the CBill cost of basic paints is stupid expensive. Honestly, I think the basics should be unlocked for free.

NOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

unless it capped out at a low price, otherwise bright primary colors would end up expensive as hell

[Bhael Fire]

The prices are too expensive now...so I only bought a few colors that I can use indefinitely for variety. I have no intention of ever buying any other color until the prices come down. The minor variations in color just are not worth the expense.

[Syllogy]

Bhael Fire, on 21 May 2013 - 07:40 AM, said:

I only bought a few colors that I can use indefinitely for variety.

This is exactly the right answer for most players - buy a few that you like, use them across all of your mechs.

I do not support C-Bills for premium colors on any level. This game might be Free to Play, but PGI still has to pay the bills.

Since colors are completely cosmetic and have absolutely no bearing on gameplay, I fully support charging real-world money to dress up your mechs.

There must be an incentive to spend money. If it isn't with cosmetic items, what is left?

The alternative is to create MC-only weapons and/or Hero Mechs that actually have a major advantage over their C-Bill counterparts. [See World of Tanks Gold Ammo and Premium Tanks]

Edited by Syllogy, 21 May 2013 - 07:56 AM.

[Ozric]

Myself I have about 10 paints, 4 free, the rest bought with founders money (that I made a point of trying not to think of as real money) and always during a sale. I would love to have more colors, a lot more, and camo too, but the current pricing makes me hesitate too much.

This I think is my problem with MC pricing at the current level, many purchases are just too serious to make on a whim. Painting is a whimsical thing, and if all paints were cheaper I'm sure I would have dozens more colors than I do now. I know my opinion is entirely relative, but as a picky consumer in the harsh realities of the modern world I am more likely to purchase a lot of paints at low prices than a few at higher cost. And right now, collecting all the paints (a noble ambition in any game I think you'll agree) is totally out of the question.

[Bhael Fire]

I'd spend a lot more on paint colors if they were cheaper.

For example, if colors were about 75-150 MC each, I'd definitely buy a few colors every couple of weeks just on a whim. But since they are so expensive, I can't justify spending that much so I won't be buying any more until they are cheaper. I guess some people's impulse threshold varies.

Patterns, however, I feel are priced perfectly.

[Blue Footed Booby]

LordBraxton, on 21 May 2013 - 07:30 AM, said:

NOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

unless it capped out at a low price, otherwise bright primary colors would end up expensive as hell

Seems like the sensible thing to do is to jigger the equation so that growth is logarithmic, at least outside of some range, so that prices can only realistically get so low or so high. Then again, there's a reason games like that usually have a dedicated economist on the team.

Edited by Blue Footed Booby, 21 May 2013 - 08:16 AM.

[karoushi]

Blue Footed Booby, on 21 May 2013 - 08:16 AM, said:

Seems like the sensible thing to do is to jigger the equation so that growth is logarithmic, at least outside of some range, so that prices can only realistically get so low or so high. Then again, there's a reason games like that usually have a dedicated economist on the team.

Exactly; Have to be able to price point to match your entire demographic and not just the wealthiest of them.

Remember my post about the failed electric luxury car company? Same premise; If you charge yourself out of a sale you've made nothing vs the opposite.


If they lowered their cost or had a sale I'd go buy some paints right now!

And I'm sure many others would and that is the idea of lower cost = more sales over all = more revenue than vice versa has a chance to make.


Try this: Go play sim city, build up a nice big city or load up a game of a already functioning city ~ Go into the tax menu and lower the taxes on the poor and the medium class until they are really low and put the taxes on the wealthy really high and watch what happens: You can't pay the bills! The majority of the revenue that a state or city budget makes is from, guess who? The Poor! Why? There are more of them than rich people! Wow!

You can't just expect the richest to fund your project with their mass amounts of money that they mainly keep to themselves. You might get a few measily large sums in the short term (oh wow this player spent $450 dollars!) but in the long run (customer says: "Wow these prices are so high, I can't afford to purchase some of these things at all if ever" x5million) you will lose money and go out of business.

Trust me, I'm not just some degenerate spouting some fictional nonsense ~ these are real functioning practices that are age-old and tried and true ~ Why do you think I am repeating it at all?

Edited by karoushi, 21 May 2013 - 08:27 AM.

[Syllogy]

karoushi, on 21 May 2013 - 08:21 AM, said:

Exactly; Have to be able to price point to match your entire demographic and not just the wealthiest of them.

Remember my post about the failed electric luxury car company? Same premise; If you charge yourself out of a sale you've made nothing vs the opposite.

If they weren't selling, the price would come down.

[karoushi]

Syllogy, on 21 May 2013 - 08:25 AM, said:

If they weren't selling, the price would come down.

Just because they are selling a little bit does not justify the cost.

Like I've said before, they can scrape by on their current pricing model or they can lower the price so millions more people can buy.
Their choice.

If you're one of the rich people and you just want the prices to stay high so no one else can afford it, then SHAME ON YOU. (And trust me, this is EXACTLY how rich people are. They want the members only jackets and to own the club. They don't want anyone who isn't a rich dillhole like them to be able to do anything they can do.)

Edited by karoushi, 21 May 2013 - 08:35 AM.

[Chavette]

I agree, the tiers should be more like 200/400/600, or even 300/400/500... It just doesn't make alot of sense asking 4x price for a slightly different shade.

Edited by Chavette, 21 May 2013 - 08:36 AM.

[Bhael Fire]

Syllogy, on 21 May 2013 - 08:25 AM, said:

If they weren't selling, the price would come down.

On some level, that makes sense. I'm just wondering if they realize how much more they could be selling if their prices on paint and cockpit items were more reasonable. I could be wrong, but it seems many people would buy more frequently if the prices seemed less severe.

[ArmageddonKnight]

imo ANYTHING available as a microtransaction should be available to everyone in game aswell, even if the cost is insanely high.

Why ? fairness, both in terms of what we all have available and in terms of P2W (like with mechs).

Microtransactions should be there for convieniance, people have and will pay for convieniance. But being there so only those with more money than sense can to get things that 'normal' people cant or wont pay for is just straight up wrong.

The microtransactions have/had a bad rep for a reason.

I could easily afford to using MC only items, i could pay for premium time, i could do the same for many other games i have played and currently do play. But i wont, becouse im activly against microtransactions, they have ruined to many games in the past. A current example is Tera, though not ruined in terms of gameplay, as most stuff bought irl can be sold ingame so u just pay som1 in game to buy them irl for u., its caused prices acorss the board to inflate massivly. And in other games that shall remain namless, items available on microtransaction that included gear lead to people making a char , boosting to max level, buying all their gear irl, joining groups and ruining gameplay becouse they didnt learn to play, and then promply also inflating ingame prices. In otherg ames simular to MWo it just leads to people buying their way to the top.

If MWo were B2P (pay once) or Subscription without microtransactions available, i would happily pay it once the game is released and bugs/ content sorted.

Edited by ArmageddonKnight, 21 May 2013 - 08:46 AM.

[Blue Footed Booby]

Syllogy, on 21 May 2013 - 08:25 AM, said:

If they weren't selling, the price would come down.

This is only true if PGI is a completely rational actor with perfect information. :V

karoushi, on 21 May 2013 - 08:21 AM, said:

Exactly; Have to be able to price point to match your entire demographic and not just the wealthiest of them.

Remember my post about the failed electric luxury car company? Same premise; If you charge yourself out of a sale you've made nothing vs the opposite.


If they lowered their cost or had a sale I'd go buy some paints right now!

And I'm sure many others would and that is the idea of lower cost = more sales over all = more revenue than vice versa has a chance to make.

Part of me wonders if maybe the high prices are actually a psychological trick to make sales seem like better deals than they are, leading people to splurge every weekend. Sorta like how every time Steam does the gigantic yearly Christmas/Summer sail I end up spending like 5x as much as I otherwise would in twice the time.

The rest of me just wants the decal system from Forza Motorsport so I can spend days on end painting murals on my mechs.


While looking for an example screenshot I stumbled on a variety of Porsches and BMWs with iron crosses, eagles and white power slogans. THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS.

Edited by Blue Footed Booby, 21 May 2013 - 09:38 AM.

[MasterErrant]

I can't afford the prices they are charging for custom paint and wouldn't do it if I could...the prices are rediculous. I cam up with an MC price of 42000 to pain my intended stable the way I'd want to not ever