8 replies to this topic

[topgun505]

Someone offered up that I should post this to the suggestion board. So here:

One of the things I am seeing as of late is all the threads regarding high damage alphas (a prime example of which is the 6-PPC Stalker).

Personally I don't think there is anything wrong with any of the weapons of this game other than maybe the LBX-10 either needs a damage boost .... or at least needs the capability of switching between cluster and slug ammo like in TT ...... and the Streak homing points on mechs needs to be located at limb extremities so their splash damage doesn't constantly overlap the CT like it does now. But those two are issues for other threads. Anyway ...

The PPCs and the like are not at fault here. So how could you change this?

I don't remember what version of MW it was ... but I recall ages ago putting 6 ERLL into a clan Supernova. I didn't intend to fire them all at once ... I was going to stagger/chain fire them. But just for giggles I did an alpha strike on its maiden run.

What happened?

I BLEW UP. Like INSTANTLY. No heat warnings ... nothing ... just the instant I hit the fire button I turned into a fireball.

Why?

Because of how they modeled the heat. Yeah I had a crapton of heat sinks to handle the heat. But that version of MW applied ALL of the heat the weapons generated and then calculated the impact of that heat load on the mech BEFORE the heat sinks would reduce the heat levels back down. In other words, you had a heat spike for a moment before your heat sinks could kick in and do their job.

This makes sense really ... you can't INSTANTLY get rid of heat.

So what does this mean? In MWO let's say you have a 6 PPC Stalker and it alphas ... that's 48 points of heat (plus heat generated from moving plus or minus heat from the environment) but let's assume that washes out so it is just weapon heat. Assume that it has 16 double heat sinks. Operating at 1.4 efficiency it reduces the heat by 22 which leaves you at 26 heat leaving you free to fire again as soon as the weapons recycle.

If you applied the heat effects BEFORE the heat sinks kicked in, however, the above alpha strike would result in an immediate shutdown and your heat sinks would get to work trying to vent off the excess 18 heat above the shutdown level you incurred.

What would this do? In short this would force players to be a bit more mindful of heat concerns when building their units.

I know one of the counter arguments that will be mentioned.

This will make Trial mechs hard to use and new players will have a rough time with this. To this the response I think would be ... trial mechs are already overly difficult. This is their (PGi's) game ... they don't HAVE to stick strictly to cannon ... they've already diverted from it by changing heat and damage values for weapons and giving equipment to mechs that never had it (ECM on a Commando 2D). So make better trial mechs for new players to use. Plus ... new players already have a hard time with the current environment. Imagine a new player jumping onto the field in a Hunch and he dies INSTANTLY when he pops over a ridge because a 6-ppc Stalker decided to say hello. How long do you think a player will stick around with things like this to deal with?

In short. There currently is very little if any reason to manage your mechs heat. Everyone knows it and a lot exploit it (hence one reason for the pop-sniping).

So ... give players something to think about when they are constructing their mechs. Heat management should be one of those things that is always on your mind when you are building a new unit.

[TehSBGX]

Bumping this because this is just a flat out good idea.

[topgun505]

Heh, thanks TehSBGX

[MasterErrant]

I agree that the current heat system is lameness incarnate. but before firing? not ..every weapon in the game dos four or five times the heat they do in TT "compared to the heat system in use" this would just make balanced builds pay as well.

[topgun505]

That was the idea. Add an element to the game that mech builds that are able to manage their heat reasonably will be much better off instead of the one trick ponies we have now.

[Zyllos]

MWO already does this...

PPCs fire instanteously, thus their heat is applied instanteously. So I am not sure what your suggesting...

[Sam Slade]

This gets the Best Suggestion Ever award. Why did no one think of this before!?! Heatsinks are not a negative heat value they are a heat dissipation device.

I love this idea. Battles would be longer and good tactical damage management and shot selection would become an issue for all mechs... not to mention that mixed role builds would become vital.

If this idea was combined with http://mwomercs.com/...-the-skill-cap/ this idea(mainly the additions by Dontas) then we would have a WAY more skillful, tactical and mechy game without adding RNG or anything.

Edited by Sam Slade, 24 April 2013 - 10:51 AM.

[topgun505]

As a reference point, in the TT the hard line shutdown point is 30 heat.

A PPC is 8 heat. So a PPC stalker would be at 48 heat after one alpha. Considering right now one of those can alpha strike and they are only at like 60% heat this means one of two things.

1. Either they DON'T handle heat in this fashion or
2. The heat threshold must be insanely huge (like 70-100) heat before it hits shutdown

If it is #1 then switching to the proposed change would definitely put the beat down on huge energy alpha strikes. If it is #2 then they need to MASSIVELY reduce the shutdown threshold

Zyllos, on 24 April 2013 - 10:36 AM, said:

MWO already does this...

PPCs fire instanteously, thus their heat is applied instanteously. So I am not sure what your suggesting...

[topgun505]

So I did some experimenting. Took a Highlander 732 with 3x PPC and 16 DHS and group fired them in every map then took out all the heat sinks (leaving me with the base 10 sinks) and tried it again.

In Snow City with the 16 sinks an alpha strike took me to around 35% and took around 7 seconds to vent off all the heat.

In Snow City with the 10 sinks an alpha strike took me to around 41% and took around 11 seconds to vent off all the heat.

So, this game does NOT heat spike and then apply the heat effects and then start venting. If it did do that then the amount of heat you would get from an alpha strike would be the same regardless of how many heat sinks you have.

So the original proposal I would say stands. Plus also the proposal to lower the overall threshold as well.