24 replies to this topic

[Tennex]

Vote please!

Edited by Tennex, 25 April 2013 - 08:16 AM.

[ArmageddonKnight]

There is noting wrong with PPC's and ERPPC's as they r now.

The current issue is that people are boating them for insane hotrunning alpha builds. thats not an issue wiht ppc's, its an issue with the heat system. The capacity is to high , the cooloff speed to low, and the penalties for overheating .non existant.

Edited by ArmageddonKnight, 24 April 2013 - 11:53 AM.

[Tennex]

it just doesn't make sense to me for PPC to have min range and ER PPC not to.

both of them use field inhibitors. or are supposed to anyway.

Edited by Tennex, 25 April 2013 - 08:10 AM.

[ArmageddonKnight]

Think of it this way.

When a PPC is fired the first 90m is used to converge the energy into the partical projectile, after that range it is damaging, before it, its just a cloud of particles doing little damage.


The ERPPC has a more refined/tighter & longer nossle meaning the energy comes out and converges faster into the partical projectile and thus does damage at minimum range. It also means extra range.

Think of a shotgun in reverse.
you shoot a shotgun with dear shot the shot spreads out, now reverse the idea,
The shot comes out spreadout and converges into a singel shotgun slug.
Now a PPC is a sawn off 'reverse' shotgun.
A ERPPC is a long barrel 'reverse' shotgun.


make sense ??

[Oppresor]

In theory the particles should have reached maximum velocity as they leave the PPC. What should be an issue is that if engaging at 0m or point blank range, the firing unit would almost certainly take some damage as well.

I personally think that the ER PPC is the best Sniper weapon we have at the moment.

[Hellcat420]

why dont you just come out and ask them to remove erppc from teh game. thats basically what you are doing. erppc with minimum range is not an erppc, its just a ppc.

[MasterErrant]

the issue is the heat system and it's lack of drawbacks boating is a part of the game...

and if you have any doubts go to the training grounds and wathc the videos look at what "They" run.

[Roughneck45]

ArmageddonKnight, on 24 April 2013 - 11:52 AM, said:

There is noting wrong with PPC's and ERPPC's as they r now.

The current issue is that people are boating them for insane hotrunning alpha builds. thats not an issue wiht ppc's, its an issue with the heat system. The capacity is to high , the cooloff speed to low, and the penalties for overheating .non existant.

I think its the fact that PPC's are registering hits without splash damage now.

The heat needs to go back to what it used to be.

The old ones were garbage because the hits would not register, and the damage would splash on the mech. So they lowered the heat, which made them viable. However, the original problems have been resolved, but they still have the heat buff.

Edited by Roughneck45, 24 April 2013 - 02:55 PM.

[Hellcat420]

Tennex, on 24 April 2013 - 11:55 AM, said:

it just doesn't make sense to me for PPC to have min range and ER PPC not to.

both of them use capacitors. or are supposed to anyway.

because they are built differently. are all cars that use 4 cylinder engines the same or have the same performance?

[Neolisk]

No. If ER PPCs had minimum range, I would never use them.

[Sturmforge]

I say just get rid of the PPC's minimum range like they did with the Gauss Rifle.

[Bishop Steiner]

Tennex, on 24 April 2013 - 11:55 AM, said:

it just doesn't make sense to me for PPC to have min range and ER PPC not to.

both of them use capacitors. or are supposed to anyway.

Doesn't matter if it "makes sense", when talking about a future space gun. You pay the heat penalty for that feature. A capacitor has nothing to do with minimum of ranges. Gauss and even lasers store their energy in capacitors. The ppc eas designed to coalesce its neam at 90 meters, to avoid feedback from damaging or destroying the gun. Erppcs are more advanced to that issue was solved. How? Doesnt matter.

[Keifomofutu]

I wouldn't add a min range but for a weapon with the range and pinpoint accuracy of the erPPC I would increase the heat up to 13. The ERPPC used to be 5 more heat than the PPC. That shouldn't change. The elimination of minimum range plus the effective damage out to 1000 are worth that much.

[Solis Obscuri]

There's really no reason to use PPCs at all, since they have such a godawful range band.

Gauss Rifles should LERP to 0 damage at 0m though, since they also had a TT min range that didn't matter very much in TT. For the sake of consistency.

[Hammerfinn]

For balance sake, I think the ER PPC should have minimum range. It's a sniping, mid-long range weapon; why should it be one of the best brawl weapons too? This creates cognitive dissonance with the "ER".

[DeadlyNerd]

This is not up to debate, ER PPCs are there for their ability to have no minimum range.
They pay for that with 3 extra heat. That's around 30% more.

Heat system should be overhauled, not the basic functionalities of weapons.

[Joseph Mallan]

the PPC projectile does not need to arm, it forms in gun as far as I know, there is no reason I can see for there to be a Minimum range. It was pulled from the Gauss with he same logic I will assume.

[Tristan Kell]

Joseph Mallan, on 25 April 2013 - 07:39 AM, said:

the PPC projectile does not need to arm, it forms in gun as far as I know, there is no reason I can see for there to be a Minimum range. It was pulled from the Gauss with he same logic I will assume.

from SARNA:
PPCs are equipped with a Field Inhibitor to prevent feedback which could damage the firing unit's electronic systems.^[6] This inhibitor degrades the performance of the weapon at close ranges of less than 90 meters. Particularly daring warriors have been known to disengage the inhibitor and risk damage to their own machine when a target is at close range.

The PPC uses an electron laser to essentially create a channel for a man made lightning bolt. It is the same gun, that the US Army is actually currently testing and developing in the Laser Induced Plasma Channel and here is some commentary about it:
Earlier this spring, the U.S. Army revealed the existence of a project underway to build a device that could shoot lightning bolts down laser beams to take out a target. Now the military's boffins report success in their first tests.
The technology -- known as laser-induced plasma channel -- is designed to seek out targets that conduct electricity better than the air or ground that surrounds them.
Although scientists and engineers working on the weapon's development expressed confidence in the physics behind their work, George Fischer, who is the lead scientist on the project, nonetheless cautioned about the technical challenges still ahead.
"If the light focuses in air, there is certainly the danger that it will focus in a glass lens, or in other parts of the laser amplifier system, destroying it," according to Fischer. "We needed to lower the intensity in the optical amplifier and keep it low until we wanted the light to self-focus in air.

The last sentence in particular addresses WHY a PPC uses a field inhibitor, because in a game of make believe, the PPC is actually a feasible weapon system, RIGHT NOW, and shockingly, the actual drawbacks were accurate.

The ER PPC does not use on, because supposedly the SLDF scientists had made a breakthrough in focusing equipment that negated the potential plasma/lightning backsplash. That same Focusing tech is what gives the ER PPC it's extended range, also.
Also to those who say it is JUST the splash, and with the concentrated damage and speed of projectile, the heat needs to go back, as long as the heat system is like it is, I cannot disagree more, as you don't punish the Alpha Boats who just overheat every second shot anyhow, with that, but the legit builds using the 1-3 PPC or ER PPC they were assigned with, which now become even LESS viable.

As has been said, insteadd of constant nerf/buff on the weapons, it is the poorly thought out Heat System, with to slow a bleed off, and far to high a heat capacity, that is to blame, not the PPC and ER PPC, which are finally where they belong, tied with Gauss as the kings of the Battlefield.

[Saltychipmunk]

all er weapons are underused as is.

due to the nature of boating , the added range of er ppc is not worth the extra heat .
6 er ppcs are alot more heat intensive than 6 ppcs.

hell the only good er ppcs builds is when there is like 1 or 2 for long range harassment.

Thus there really is no point in nerfing them.


I argued this in another thread , er weapons and short range weapons are irrelevant in this game right now due to the nature of boating.

most mechs can fit alot more weapons than heat can afford them.
(even the best heat builds cant keep 15 heat every 3 seconds neutral).

So there is an artificial cap on how many weapons you need. thus why would you get 6 medium lasers 30 damage for only 270 range when most mechs even light mediums can roll with 3 large lasers and get 40% more range?.

conversely why use the er weapons when they generate so much heat ( 2 er lasers are only slightly less heat intensive than 3 large lasers)

due to the fact that the 400 - 540 weapons of the game cover for the most part short mid and longish range along with the fact that battles rarely stay at distances over 400 meters anyway.

there is NO need to use er weapons. As long as 500 meter battles are the norm , people who use er weapons are just gimping themselves.

and if you aren't that one hunchback with 9 mediums , the same can be said of short ranged lasers.


even the insane 6 ppcs stalkers don't always go for 6 erppcs simply because its 1 less alpha they can do

Edited by Saltychipmunk, 25 April 2013 - 08:57 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Tristan Kell, on 25 April 2013 - 07:54 AM, said:

from SARNA:
PPCs are equipped with a Field Inhibitor to prevent feedback which could damage the firing unit's electronic systems.^[6] This inhibitor degrades the performance of the weapon at close ranges of less than 90 meters. Particularly daring warriors have been known to disengage the inhibitor and risk damage to their own machine when a target is at close range.

The PPC uses an electron laser to essentially create a channel for a man made lightning bolt. It is the same gun, that the US Army is actually currently testing and developing in the Laser Induced Plasma Channel and here is some commentary about it:
Earlier this spring, the U.S. Army revealed the existence of a project underway to build a device that could shoot lightning bolts down laser beams to take out a target. Now the military's boffins report success in their first tests.
The technology -- known as laser-induced plasma channel -- is designed to seek out targets that conduct electricity better than the air or ground that surrounds them.
Although scientists and engineers working on the weapon's development expressed confidence in the physics behind their work, George Fischer, who is the lead scientist on the project, nonetheless cautioned about the technical challenges still ahead.
"If the light focuses in air, there is certainly the danger that it will focus in a glass lens, or in other parts of the laser amplifier system, destroying it," according to Fischer. "We needed to lower the intensity in the optical amplifier and keep it low until we wanted the light to self-focus in air.

The last sentence in particular addresses WHY a PPC uses a field inhibitor, because in a game of make believe, the PPC is actually a feasible weapon system, RIGHT NOW, and shockingly, the actual drawbacks were accurate.

The ER PPC does not use on, because supposedly the SLDF scientists had made a breakthrough in focusing equipment that negated the potential plasma/lightning backsplash. That same Focusing tech is what gives the ER PPC it's extended range, also.
Also to those who say it is JUST the splash, and with the concentrated damage and speed of projectile, the heat needs to go back, as long as the heat system is like it is, I cannot disagree more, as you don't punish the Alpha Boats who just overheat every second shot anyhow, with that, but the legit builds using the 1-3 PPC or ER PPC they were assigned with, which now become even LESS viable.

As has been said, insteadd of constant nerf/buff on the weapons, it is the poorly thought out Heat System, with to slow a bleed off, and far to high a heat capacity, that is to blame, not the PPC and ER PPC, which are finally where they belong, tied with Gauss as the kings of the Battlefield.

Dude I know the fluff reason for it. I am just saying it doesn't have to be. As to where PPCs are at now! I am happy. When folks want to load them up boat style you know the weapon is effective!