3 replies to this topic

[Victor Morson]

DISCLAIMER: I am not one who wants this to be a TT conversion. I argue with people who bring TT rules up all the time. But this I felt was worth bringing up as ECM has strayed way, way off course at this point.

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Affected systems include Artemis IV, C3 and C3i Computer networks, and Narc Missile Beacons. A Guardian can jam a Beagle Active Probe (or its Clan equivalent), but the probe-equipped unit will be aware of the jamming.

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Contemporary guided missiles such as standard LRM or Streak SRMs are not affected by the Guardian suite and will be able to achieve hard lock as normal.^[4]

What I'm taking away from this is the effect where ECM makes your whole team disappear feels very much in the spirit of the original C3 network counter, that is being removed from the game soon.

By contrast, Artemis is not impacted by ECM - yet hard locks are. Why?

I think everyone would agree that ECM countered Artemis missiles (either by removing the bonus, or having similar effects to what we have now) without impacting regular LRMs, that would make the system a lot less "hard counter."

I'd really like to see this type of ECM attempted, honestly. Removing bonuses and clouding the enemies shared sensor network is what the equipment is all about - and most importantly why it is balanced as it is. It wouldn't weigh only one slot and a few tons if it's purpose was to do even a quarter of what the MW:O ECM can accomplish.

Again, I am NOT a hard line Table Top player. I'm saying that we've kept the hard stats (crit/tonnage/etc) while giving it endless new features, while at the same time ignoring what it is supposed to do!

If we're going to make the equipment this far off-canon, and PGI is set on keeping it as-is, I think we should see it rebalanced to take more out of a 'mech. The "double tip" hard counter to LRMs is about the silliest part of it - where it makes them hard to hit at range, then blocks them again up close. If this only impacted Artemis missiles, you'd give a huge reason to use non-Artemis to players even!

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The greatest drawback to the Guardian is its limited range, which extends out to only 180 meters. Sensors can sometimes override this jamming

Again I'm OK with it casting a bubble and such, features it does not do in TT. But it does too much, for an item that was balanced in the stats to do not nearly that much.

Also I feel it should be pointed out that there is an ECM that impacts Streaks and operates much closer to what we see in MW:O - Angel ECM, an experimental tech from further in the timeline (I can't find the reference year). Many features from this ECM should be considered for that at an appropriate point in the timeline. It is important to note the effects of this advanced version of ECM are to disable the Streak's Streak ability, turning them into regular SRMs.

tl/dr: Consider getting rid of the missile hard-lock within the bubble and instead replace it with a missile-debuff, or a hard lock only to Artemis missiles. Also if the effects of Angel, if they are going to be considered (as they seem to be right now) could be used as a great model for MW:O by making SSRMs turn into regular SRMs when under the effects of ECM, instead of paperweights

Edited by Victor Morson, 28 April 2013 - 12:08 AM.

[Fajther]

They have made it clear that they are defending their vision of how ecm should work. Sorry. They aren't going to do anything that will make ecm truly weaker. They will only throw some fake/stupid counters on ecm and tell us to stop complaining. In the end russ and brain are the dungeon masters, battle masters (or what ever you have to call them). and we have to do what they say.

[Victor Morson]

Fajther, on 28 April 2013 - 05:14 AM, said:

They have made it clear that they are defending their vision of how ecm should work. Sorry. They aren't going to do anything that will make ecm truly weaker. They will only throw some fake/stupid counters on ecm and tell us to stop complaining. In the end russ and brain are the dungeon masters, battle masters (or what ever you have to call them). and we have to do what they say.

While that's true to a degree, I'm less hoping that ECM will lose features as have those features reduced. Cutting hard lock-counter to bonus removals or disabling Streak tracking would still make it extremely powerful, at the same number of features, without nearly the backlash.

My main complaint is that they've made it way too much of a wonder device for it's tonnage. It's a low tonnage, low critical piece of equipment for a reason, and that's that it's VERY niche in TT. While I'm glad to see it have more use here, that's like taking a Small Laser and making it one of the better guns in the game, but leaving it at a half ton.

[MasterErrant]

the current version of ecm is fine you can get missile lock on protected mechs it's just harder. all the various systems add up to counter it. as for the differences between it use here and in TT. well TT abstracts a lot of things into simple rolls and roll mods that are done manually here.