232 replies to this topic

[Inkarnus]

marabou, on 28 April 2013 - 10:15 AM, said:

AC20, ERPPC and Gauss are destroying lights.

they are destroying this game too

[Kyone Akashi]

ArmageddonKnight, on 30 April 2013 - 07:23 AM, said:

'Some' specific varients .. 1 Large laser.

have u seen some of the insane builds around. Double er LL. AC10's ... 5 medium lasers.

The small weapons are there for a reason ..but they aint used becouse the current hardpoint system allows for these rediculus builds.

Anyway ..getting of topic. Im also gunna stop here. convo is going no where.

Not sure what Lights you've fought - I fared well just with the Medium Lasers (which are the official standard loadout for this chassis), and I'm convinced that trading them for a pair of Large Lasers would give me worse results. Or are you ignoring that such loadouts come at a huge price in the form of armor and engine for a Light?

If you're argueing for a decrease in modularity, I'm all for that. Not because of the Lights, but because it'd have meant seeing a lot less Gausscats whose pilots somehow managed to cram a Gauss rifle into a hardpoint formerly occupied by a machine gun.

Also, the JR10 actually features 6 medium lasers and ECM. Be fortunate it's still a few years out until it gets developed.

Still curious if you're actually playing a Light. It almost sounds like you dodged that question. And don't worry, as far as I can see, the discussion of such perceptions is very much on-topic.

Edited by Kyone Akashi, 30 April 2013 - 07:33 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Night Hawk(2 large lasers)
Hollander (Gauss)
Brigand (4 Mediums)
Valkyrie (LRM15!)
Panther (PPC)
UrbanMech (AC10)
Falcon Hawk(ER PPC)

Though many of these are no yet in game there is a list of Lights with heavy weapons on them...

[DerSpecht]

ArmageddonKnight, on 30 April 2013 - 07:23 AM, said:

'Some' specific varients .. 1 Large laser.

have u seen some of the insane builds around. Double er LL. AC10's ... 5 medium lasers.

Urbanmech = AC10
Locust 2C = ER LL

And thats the 20 Tons small mechs. With 35 tons... well just start brain exe..

[Kraven Kor]

Lights are destroying this game.

Assaults are destroying this game.

PPC's are destroying this game.

Poptarts are destroying this game.

BUGS are destroying this game.

PGI / IGP are destroying this game.

We are destroying this game.

So much doom and gloom around here, sheesh.

Remember: Your ideal solution to MWO's problems are indeed exactly what someone else never wants to see in MWO. So, good luck with all this.

[Joseph Mallan]

BooYa Kraven. Well said Sir!

[DerSpecht]

Imagine the tears when lights finally get XXL engines......

[Gallowglas]

Think about it this way: how long do you think you'd last against 3 heavies or assaults focused on you? Why do people think it should be any easier against 3 lights? Yes, a group of lights working in tandem can find isolated mechs and tear them apart. That should tell you it's generally a bad idea to isolate yourself and a good idea to play wingman to each other. Even 3 lights won't last long if 2-3 other mechs are concentrating fire right back.

[Deathlike]

151st Light Horse Regiment, on 30 April 2013 - 04:39 AM, said:

Take this for example...

I listened to guys in this topic and tried to fight against lights.

I got bounced by two of them. I managed to kill one (using scrubby AC40's) but by then i was critical and the second one finished me off.

Aiming an AC20 at point blank, and actually hitting, is too hard. It didnt help that the lights were lagging all over the place, and tbh im pretty convinced that even my 'hits' werent actually registering.

As long as a light gets close and runs fast, you stand little chance.

Here's a list of your problems:

1) You are engaging lights at their finest... when there are more than 1. If you can't handle 1, don't expect to win vs 2. That's what teammates are for. Be near them so they can help you.

2) AC20s are great, but your skill is not. Please improve first.

3) Complaining about light mechs when their existence is at an all time low.. where the net code isn't giving them "lag shielding" like what happened months ago, HSR which is making PPCs and AC20s hurt a lot more like hammers, and the often mentioned Ravens have legs that are wicked easy to shoot at...

You know what... L2P.

Edited by Deathlike, 30 April 2013 - 07:52 AM.

[Cubivorre]

Roadbeer, on 29 April 2013 - 05:31 PM, said:

Wow... so, this thread is still a 'thing' huh?

Don't worry, it'll get better soon.

[Kraven Kor]

Joseph Mallan, on 30 April 2013 - 07:46 AM, said:

BooYa Kraven. Well said Sir!

Eh, I have my moments.

[Madw0lf]

Alpha087, on 28 April 2013 - 08:29 AM, said:

I find it funny because I primarily play Assault, and hate AC macro Jagers a lot more than light mechs for that very same reason. Difference being, it takes a little bit of skill to evasively pilot a light mech while aiming and dodging buildings. It takes absolutely no skill to program your mouse/keyboard macro and hold down a button to insta-kill people with your AC's.

That said, I don't think light mechs moving fast is a problem. ECM on the other hand? They need to implement an actual counter to ECM other than 'moar ECM'.

Lol...I assume you mean Jagers with 4-6 AC2s? Thats hardly an instakill....unless your openent is a brain-dead rhesus monkey....great for supression and your damage score....but meh.

As for OP, yea, fighting lights in a JM6 sucks, thats why you try to stay near a teamate, or make sure youre packing some lasers, and wait for the light to be in an optimal firing spot.

[Molvanian]

Ok Kiddies, some homework for you all. Look up the term "Dominant Strategy".

Basically, if given an ultimate means of destruction, you (Gamers in general) will use it each and every time.

Look, no one here is saying Lights are COMPLETELY invincible. Crappy players and bad situations can certainly destroy them. The problem is there are plenty of very common situations where a Light CAN become impossible to destroy.

The turning radius and speed of a max engine phract should not be so low that a light can spend an entire fight in its back arc. Reverse and turn the other way? Still not enough. Go forward and around a bend? Nope. Back up to a wall? On a lot of maps they'll just walk away, get above you, and continue shooting.

The bad condition for a light is long ranged combat, or combat while extremely outnumbered. The good condition is close in combat, and one on one fights. ECMs make the first... well.. unlikely on a lot of maps. As for the second... if the "counter" to them is a 4 to 1 advantage, that isn't balanced.

In fact, if someone said "Lights are underpowered because they can't go head to head with an assault", you'd say that person was crazy, right? Of course a light can't go head to head with an assault... But when people point out its Assaults (And heavies) that can't go head to head with a light? Max engine brawlers that can't even turn to shoot them before being torn apart? Entire fights that can last two minutes where you never get a single chance to fire? Doesn't sound fun does it.

And, before I get the "You're just bitter" comments. Once again. Raven. Three Medium Lasers. Two SRM 6s. I have cored Highlander and Awesome mechs from the front with that build, let alone the rear. I understand the power of lights because I STARTED with a light.

The thing I don't like is that I should have STOPPED there. Because there is no defense, no tactic, no option against them other then numbers in anything heavier.

But, here's the thing, I KNOW no matter what we say, that this will be fixed. Because the way this game makes money is by people spending real cash to get those heavy and assault mechs. And if they just get torn apart by guys like me in a raven... they'll be less inclined to buy them. Capitalism will insure balance is restored.

Oh, one last thing. In the lore, Lights are meant to be used for scouting and the like. They aren't meant to go one on one with assaults. In here, it's a given they can. I know this game needs balance between the classes, but rocks, paper, scissoring it up isn't a good way to do it.

Edited by Molvanian, 30 April 2013 - 10:40 AM.

[Kyone Akashi]

Molvanian, on 30 April 2013 - 10:38 AM, said:

Oh, one last thing. In the lore, Lights are meant to be used for scouting and the like. They aren't meant to go one on one with assaults. In here, it's a given they can. I know this game needs balance between the classes, but rocks, paper, scissoring it up isn't a good way to do it.

"In the lore", your assessment may apply to the Raven, but not the Jenner. See the text quoted from the TRO earlier.

The Raven's hitbox issues, the SRM area damage bug and the ECM controversy are all individual problems that should not affect people's perception towards an entire weight class. Perhaps you should have piloted a Light that does not combine all the aforementioned things into one.

Rocks, Paper, Scissor is perfectly acceptable in a game where every player is supposed to be able to have an equal effect on the game. I seriously would like to know what sort of role some people would like to see Lights in? "We'll allow you to recon and TAG a bit, but please don't actually fight anything, that's for us big boys with the REAL 'Mechs."
So, correction: capitalism will ensure that balance is retained.

[Howdy Doody]

I've tried driving lights and it's hard as hell. More power to the high skilled folks that can do it. I sure as hell can't....yet!

[Howdy Doody]

Neverfar, on 30 April 2013 - 11:39 AM, said:

They work best in pairs. That's how they take down heavies and assaults: by attacking from two angles so one is always hitting the back.

Of course this tactic pits two against one and requires speed. That's why it isnt "game breaking". Except maybe to the guy who made this thread.

The second light won't help me from lawn-darting into buildings!

[blinkin]

Neverfar, on 30 April 2013 - 11:39 AM, said:

They work best in pairs. That's how they take down heavies and assaults: by attacking from two angles so one is always hitting the back.

Of course this tactic pits two against one and requires speed. That's why it isnt "game breaking". Except maybe to the guy who made this thread.

also a decent light mech pilot can tie up 2 or 3 enemy mechs that are in close proximity to each other. not killing them, but some times taking them out of the battle for a minute or two can turn the game in your favor.

[Yokaiko]

Neverfar, on 30 April 2013 - 11:39 AM, said:

They work best in pairs. That's how they take down heavies and assaults: by attacking from two angles so one is always hitting the back.

Of course this tactic pits two against one and requires speed. That's why it isnt "game breaking". Except maybe to the guy who made this thread.

From the circle comment it sounds like he couldn't hit the broadside of a barn, because the last thing I want to be in a light is solo with an AC40 jager or assault with a stack of large lasers. I mangle lights that try that with me, and I don't engage when I'm in a light.

[MuadXDib]

Molvanian, on 28 April 2013 - 08:09 AM, said:

All mechs should be viable. Assaults aren't.

April fools was a month ago, no? Did I miss 'come to the forum and make up random stuff day'?

[blinkin]

Neverfar, on 30 April 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

Sometimes when my team is being a bunch of wussies ducking and hiding from sniper boat fire (I don't mean taking cover as much as not even shooting back and being chipped to pieces little by little), I'll charge sideways across the enemy line, get everyone to turn around and shoot at me, and sometimes that makes my side brave enough to open fire and advance. It works more often than it doesn't, even if I don't always survive it.

Winning the match so my side benefits is more important to me than that silly K/D ratio thing.

that was how i ended up with one of my more glorious matches.

standard opposed roshambo lines with a hillside blocking any real shots in between them. while they were all staring at each other i swept my SRM catapult C4 up behind the enemy. i destroyed the hunch on 2 of their hunchbacks before the majority noticed me. then they all turned on me and my team finally woke up and charged in. i got 4 kills on that hillside in that match, and it was even one of the few matches where i lived through the whole match. i was missing an ear and most of my armor with smoke pouring out everywhere, but i was alive.