232 replies to this topic

[Appogee]

I don't play lights. But I do think they need some tactical advantage over heavies.

I am fine that they can run faster than my Assault can turn. That is their advantage. If they do it well, they win. If I play my Assault well, they lose.

It seems quite balanced to me.

[marabou]

AC20, ERPPC and Gauss are destroying lights.

[Tor6]

I find someone who is this enraged by the idea that a mech half his tonnage should be more manueverable than him hilarious. Especially becuase he's calling his teammates noobs when he's the gut who is blowing a gasket over a single commando. You know, I think this is the first time I've ever advocated this, but having people's elos available for lookup would be -amazing- in these sorts of circumstances. It would be a terrible idea the rest of the time though.

Edited by Tor6, 28 April 2013 - 10:18 AM.

[TB Freelancer]

Wait a minute! I thought it was PPCs and JJ poptart assaults ruining the game. Which is it? Seems to me if we compiled every QQ thread created to date, only LBX, Flamers and Machine Guns aren't ruining the game.

Now onto a Jagger that can't fight a single light in a one on one battle. Seriously? With the majority of the bigger mechs I run all it takes is one alpha to either kill it outright or cripple it so badly that simply grazing it with a pair of medium lasers would finish it off.

I can understand being frustrated by being beaten by multiple lights swarming you, but there's really no excuse (barring LRM boats) for anything from a medium on up to an assault to be consistently beaten by a lone light in one on one duels. If you're running direct fire weapons or dumb fire missiles, the problem isn't lights, its a lack of ability.

[AntiCitizenJuan]

Uh no. PPC poptards are destroying the game

[Davers]

151st Light Horse Regiment, on 28 April 2013 - 06:21 AM, said:

It's the primary reason i want to punch my screen nearly every time i play.

I hate lights. ECM, excessive speed, and in the right setup, a good array of weapons.

Remember that youtube video of dozens of tiny bees swarming all over those huge *** killer hornet wasps? That's basically what this game is every single time.

A classic example was just now on frozen city. Playing a jager and some commando scrub just ran round the back of me at 135kph and popped my back armour. He can run quicker than i can turn, and because of the buildings i got stuck. Dead in 20 seconds.

Matchmaking, screw you. Give me the option of playing against only heavies or assaults please.

inb4 lrn2play, lightsrox, ujustsuxlolz

I used to think like that until HSR. I was in a match on Frozen and 4 Raven 3Ls tried a base rush. I was able to get back in time. I legged all 4 and killed one, my team took care of the rest. They are definitely not as scary as they used to be.

[Training Instructor]

In my spider 5D I aim at side torsos of Jagers, because it's so easy to destroy them with their xl engines.

[gjnii]

I'm an atlas pilot, and if it weren't for the fact that lights can get into and out of any a fight/cap/spotting position faster, I'd feel bad for how easily they are killed in a 1v1. Jager's and Stalkers are the absolute worst to face lights in. The same way that I sigh when my 4x phract rounds a corner and sees a splatapult. there are a ton of mechs that are better or worse against others. EDIT: Jager's are probably good against something, I don't know for sure, I don't own one. I hate meeting them in my laser phracts.


Even so, you absolutely 100% can get a shot on a light, even in a mech with no lower arm actuators.


If the light is approaching from the front:
uhh. push fire button, collect c-bills.

If the light is coming at you from the side and circling you:
move in fast reverse and with their curve if they're rotating "out" of your firing arc this will force them into a tougher orbit, and they'll typically have to decelerate to keep their turn high enough to make additional orbits. it also means they WILL come inside your forward firing arc.



if they've started out behind you (or got behind you and slowed down rather than continuing to circle):
Throw it in a SLOW reverse and turn hard in one direction or the other, you maximize your turning and make your circle tight enough they can't stay inside it.
If they reverse, they'll fall into your forward arc at low speed.
If they punch it forward and turn "in" toward you, you get extra time to track and fire as you all-stop.
If they punch it forward and turn "out" from you, they're moving away from you again, and you'll get a small window to take a shot at their back with very little perpendicular movement.
If you hit a building while you're reversing, congratulations you now have your back to a wall. every mech in the game has a better than 180 firing arc and he can no longer shoot your back armor. push fire buttons collect c-bills, unless he gets on the building above you... in which case, turn 90 and reverse. he has to either jump down and re-engage (also leaving you a momnet of low speed while he touches down, or reverse off the other side of the building, killing any forward momentum he had, and giving you time to get distance and find a better position for engaging.


Also, rear armor, don't skimp on it unless you have a friend to cover your 6.
Also don't use an XL engine unless your ok with randomly dying. You're basically strapping a suicide vest on every time you slot one.

Edited by gjnii, 28 April 2013 - 02:16 PM.

[El Bandito]

151st Light Horse Regiment, on 28 April 2013 - 06:21 AM, said:

It's the primary reason i want to punch my screen nearly every time i play. I hate lights. ECM, excessive speed, and in the right setup, a good array of weapons. Remember that youtube video of dozens of tiny bees swarming all over those huge *** killer hornet wasps? That's basically what this game is every single time. A classic example was just now on frozen city. Playing a jager and some commando scrub just ran round the back of me at 135kph and popped my back armour. He can run quicker than i can turn, and because of the buildings i got stuck. Dead in 20 seconds. Matchmaking, screw you. Give me the option of playing against only heavies or assaults please. inb4 lrn2play, lightsrox, ujustsuxlolz

Jagers just suck at dealing with lights close up. It's just the way it is.

[Icewraith]

OP is definitely in the wrong here. I sometimes have to put up with 2 or 3 lights in my Atlas(es) if I get ditched by a faster team. The worst position to be in is an Atlas fighting a commando on any kind of slope, Atlas torso weapons barely shoot down at all.

It is significantly easier to deal with them if you're packing a few lasers, though. MY RS atm is an absolute monster compared to the D I've been working on. If you're at your max torso twist range, kill your speed and turn/twist in the other direction, and you'll usually catch the light coming around the other way.

If you're packing dual AC/20s, you can hit a light a bunch of times without actually blowing off any components if you can't land your shots well enough. I've had plenty of lights run into a 2 PPC 1 Gauss alpha or similar and keep on going without most of their armor, but with their weapons and structure intact, because of this. It's a lot easier to just leg sweep with lasers.

[Ialti]

Molvanian, on 28 April 2013 - 07:37 AM, said:

"You have to improve" Yeah... ********. Lights can circle a heavy, maybe even a medium, faster then it can turn at ANY speed. Even reversing and pivoting isn't enough.

This isn't about skill, it's about dominant strategy, look the term up. Yes, an ***** playing a light will lose. A halfway decent player in a light will kill anyone in a heavy, regardless of their skill.

I have played this franchise since MW 2. MW 2 consequently was a better made game then this unbalanced load. Not worth the zero dollars I paid for it.

Oh, and before someone says it? 340 rated engine, maxed out twisting pilot bonuses. Still not enough.

Molvanian, on 28 April 2013 - 08:09 AM, said:

All mechs should be viable. Assaults aren't.

Wrong. And not just a little wrong. Blindingly wrong. The kind of wrong that defines human hubris--if you were Laius these posts would be a mountainside, frequented by shepherds.

Molvanian, on 28 April 2013 - 07:55 AM, said:

That sort of "rock paper scissors" auto win thing isn't how it's supposed to work. It's balanced in a technical way, but not in any way that resembles fun.

Also, I realized something. The only really big guns, save the ACs, are mostly specialized for long range combat. With the rotary ACs and all the ultras besides the 5 not included, there are no large brawling weapons. Meaning most lights HAVE THE SAME WEAPON LOAD OUT AS MOST NON-SNIPER HEAVIES.

Add in that lasers require you to hold on the target for less time then a light needs to be in front of you when circling at 180 kph, and suddenly you have issues. You NEED ER PPCs and AC 20s to beat a light. That's... not the build I want, not balanced, and really not logical.

The vastly reduced turning speed relative to the earlier MW games is... confusing.

Oh, also? Light > Assault & Heavy, and possibly medium. Never tried a brawler medium.

Your experience does not define reality, a fact for which I am deeply grateful. Typing LIKE THIS doesn't make you right. And beyond that, lights can't have the same loadouts as larger mechs because they don't have enough space for the extra weapons that would take. This is really the origin of the term 'lights.'

[627]

I saw you yesterday and i saw you go down. And i lol'd.

First things first, my cicada is a medium so it's not only lights that make your life worse.

Second, approaching a jager is always risky because of these nice big guns in the arms - you need one luck shot and it's over for me.
On the other side, gettin' a jager off guard is a free kill - if i see an ac20 jager that means an XL - and that means there is a huge underarmed side torso (i have jagers myself, full armor is underarmored) - I can take you out with like 3 or 4 salvos of 4MLs from the front(!) if i can take the aim.

Third, your build seems to be suboptimal - i don't know which engine you have but i have no problems to follow al light with my arms. you can't circle dance for sure, but you can hit 'em.

Last thing, we have a saying on our TS which you should follow:

Rock'n'Roll

Rock your enemy with your AC20, roll your Torso, everytime.

Edited by 627, 28 April 2013 - 11:28 PM.

[Theodor Kling]

I pilot mostly Commandos( Although I started on the Jäger as well). And they are not OP. With some good aim we lights go down fast, especially at range. Up close we are more dangerous to the heavier guys, but even then it ismostly pilot dependent. A PPC Stalker trying to alpha me..well those usually overheat and get some SRMs in the back for it. But i´ve seen others killme real fast. Hada nice duel with a Jäger a few days ago,he had twin gauss for weapons. I had his arour to shreds , one more salvo might have killed him..but then he landed a clean hit and I was gone. If he had missed that one shot ( his 3rd actually, he obviously didn´t panikand took time to aim) his left side torso would have been gone a second later. So I would say it was even enough that we both stood a chance.

A pack of lights is something else though If they happen to find a lone heavy, he is history.
And that also worksin puplic groups. Back when LRM where nasty, I once teamed up with 2 other Comandos, we killed one heavy, damaged 4 others severly, and by that time our big friends showed up, simply walking to the fight, unmolested by enemy LRM fire thanks to our little diversion

Edited by Theodor Kling, 29 April 2013 - 12:29 AM.

[blinkin]

quickly turn off all the lights!

627, on 28 April 2013 - 11:27 PM, said:

First things first, my cicada is a medium so it's not only lights that make your life worse.

cicadas aren't a medium. they are an overweight light mech.

Edited by blinkin, 29 April 2013 - 12:37 AM.

[TOGSolid]

El Bandito, on 28 April 2013 - 05:12 PM, said:

Jagers just suck at dealing with lights close up. It's just the way it is.

As a hardcore Jager fan I can asssure you that patience and practice are the keys to victory. Trust in the dakka and the dakka will never let you down. The primarily beam wielding heathens will know your ballistic fury when you learn to let go of such sad mortal doubts.
PRAISE BE THE DAKKA!

(Seriously though, I absolutely love blowing the legs off of lights with ballistics. Everyone underestimates the Jager which leads to the inevitable death of all those who stand in the way of the glorious dakka.)

Edited by TOGSolid, 29 April 2013 - 01:17 AM.

[Kiiyor]

Solomon Ward, on 28 April 2013 - 06:57 AM, said:

Lights used to be a nightmare but not anymore

if you have still issues with lights than you have to improve.



i)deceleration helps with torso twisting

ii)turn max left, press c and swing right fast - or the other way around

iii)press your back to a wall

iv)jump jets are awesome for twisting

v)stick to your team /run back to your team

vI) shoot their legs, except for commandos -you can straight shoot their centre torso (arguably Jenners also, but i still go for their legs^^ )

vii) don´t get nervous, aim calmly

Well said.

Lights aren't the gods they used to be. Thanks to HSR, I actively hunt them. If I find one in the open, I can usually kill them with relative ease. I used to glory in the epic combination that was massed SRMs and light mechs. Now I find special joy in swatting flying lights out of the air.

If they catch me in lots of cover and can strike and run, or if they sneak up on me from behind, I'm probably dead. As it should be.

[Roughneck45]

Correction, lights are BEING destroyed in this game.

Alpha striking a leg off never gets old.

But serisouly, lights are the most balanced they have been in a long while. Kockdowns will be the cherry on top.

[Anton Shiningstar]

151st Light Horse Regiment, on 28 April 2013 - 08:18 AM, said:

People are suggesting that teamwork is key?

I think less than 5% of my games with these pug noobs have resulted in a decent amount of teamwork.

The first step to good teamwork is you must work with your team mates. Don't try to lead, just follow.

[Zerberus]

I`v goit it, the perfect troll mech for people that want to break the game!!

A spider with ECM and a PPC!

Becasue ECM is game breaking, lights are game breaking, jumpjets are game breaking, capping is game breaking, poptarts are game breaking, ppcs as a whole are game breaking... And this thing has them all

I vil be Ze Imbanezz!!! Vear me!

[Roughneck45]

Zerberus, on 29 April 2013 - 05:59 AM, said:

I`v goit it, the perfect troll mech for people that want to break the game!!

A spider with ECM and a PPC!

Becasue ECM is game breaking, lights are game breaking, jumpjets are game breaking, capping is game breaking, poptarts are game breaking, ppcs as a whole are game breaking... And this thing has them all

I vil be Ze Imbanezz!!! Vear me!

Funny you should mention that.

Thats the mech one of my corp members used for the first day of the tourney. He was sitting a #1 for a while hahaha.