475 replies to this topic

[gregsolidus]

But then again those are advanced rules.

[fearfactory]

gregsolidus, on 08 November 2011 - 07:21 PM, said:

But then again those are advanced rules.

And customization isn't? (if it's not in Total Warfare it's not Tournament)

[gregsolidus]

I'm just used to people quoting strat ops in situations like this and those involving mid battle resupplies.It may be in the book but if the developers act on anything they won't follow the rules to the T no matter where the come from.

[godzofwar]

well in MW4 that is why it was set at size per area not to strip & fit what ever. when i played if it was a cold weather planet i striped heat sinks & doubled armor & lasers when avaliable. if this new game put a cap on what you can do you may loose armor to double your firepower, that makes you dead meat to a faster more acurate shot with a balanced loadout.
so who knows what they have in-store for us, untill we can get a beta we wont know.

[Jack Gallows]

I would like to comment that I do understand that this game will not be the table top. That said, however, I believe that knowing the table top rules can help foster good ideas for use in building a fun and far ranging simulation for MWO.

Just because it's in the TT doesn't mean it has to make it into MWO, but it's still a good reference to pull from if things are needed or if we need a solution to how something should or shouldn't work. You can always tweak it so that it works within the confines of MWO for balance/etc.

It's also important to know that some things in TT just don't confer to simulation well.

[fearfactory]

gregsolidus, on 08 November 2011 - 07:28 PM, said:

I'm just used to people quoting strat ops in situations like this and those involving mid battle resupplies.It may be in the book but if the developers act on anything they won't follow the rules to the T no matter where the come from.

Which is why customization should simply be abandoned. Even with a very abstract application of these rules to try and balance the MechLab and simulate BattleTech there will always be some way to break it. Customization was always broken. Shoot, you should see some of the table top monstrosities you can create.

I'll be very impressed if the Dev's create a balanced system.

[fearfactory]

godzofwar, on 08 November 2011 - 07:30 PM, said:

well in MW4 that is why it was set at size per area not to strip & fit what ever. when i played if it was a cold weather planet i striped heat sinks & doubled armor & lasers when avaliable. if this new game put a cap on what you can do you may loose armor to double your firepower, that makes you dead meat to a faster more acurate shot with a balanced loadout.
so who knows what they have in-store for us, untill we can get a beta we wont know.

It didn't stop assault boating. In fact, I dare say it encouraged it because assault 'mechs had the most slots and simply worked the best. At least in the original system (mechwarrior 3 and 4) the construction rules were consistent (there are MechWarrior 4 designs that simply DO NOT transfer to the table top).

[Cake Bandit]

fearfactory, on 08 November 2011 - 07:33 PM, said:

Which is why customization should simply be abandoned. Even with a very abstract application of these rules to try and balance the MechLab and simulate BattleTech there will always be some way to break it. Customization was always broken. Shoot, you should see some of the table top monstrosities you can create.

I'll be very impressed if the Dev's create a balanced system.

Customization has only been a major draw since, oh, I dunno, the tabletop rules? Seriously, that's just a part of the Mechwarrior series. Y'know what game left it out? MechAssault, and I don't think anybody wants to relive that.

[Glare]

Lack of customization is hardly what made MechAssault the closest thing to a travesty that BattleTech has produced. The arcade-y gameplay, immersion-breaking 'salvage', ridiculous capabilities of the player, SuperMechs, and doomsday weapons did more than enough in that regard.

[UncleKulikov]

Mchawkeye, on 08 November 2011 - 02:49 AM, said:

Greetings.

I see the Mechwarrior games being a separate branch of the Battletech universe, based on the same canon and background as the TT and the RP, related to both but born of neither. Mechwarrior the computer game is not trying to be an incarnation of the TT.

I'm understanding of some details shifting in translation, but the previous electronic games have been far from perfect (like the auto-focus from some earlier games) that simply ruins the variety that is present on tabletop.

I'm not wedded to the mechanics of tabletop, I want the flavor of the universe intact. That includes basically every weapon having a useful role, boats being only somewhat effective, motion, target movement, and battlefield conditions affecting accuracy, and tactical play being required to down opponents.

Damage should be applicable to locations, with external ablative armor that absorbs initial shots, until it is peeled away revealing the vulnerable inner workings of the mech. Adding mechanics on top of that (like deflection in addition to the ablative armor) is fine, as long as it works and is balanced.

Honestly, I'm more concerned about weapon/mech balance regardless of the way the mechanics have been implemented. I haven't heard of a single game that has been heralded as the "one" that got the balance right. On tabletop, energy weapons are vastly superior to ballistics. In some of the computer games, there are the laser boats. I want this to be the one where everything is approximately effective.

Edited by UncleKulikov, 08 November 2011 - 09:22 PM.

[Dozer]

gregsolidus, on 08 November 2011 - 03:57 PM, said:

Wouldn't it be odd to see 3 lasers hit three completely different areas when they're fired at once? (I'm assuming you mean to represent the area hit roll when you say random damage)

Don't forget though that with pinpoint accuracy also comes pinpoint misses. I'd rather play statistics with 3 possible hit/misses than 1, even if they are in different areas

And tbh don't forget the effect of distance & time and calibration i.e. the further away the target it the greater divergence effect if misaligned (1 mm at point of fire could mean 1 meter difference if the target is 300 feet away) or mistimed (even 1 hundredth of a milisecond). All it takes is one laser to be off slightly to hit/miss the same location.

Without continuous and perfect calibration of all three lasers (which frankly I think is almost physically impossible) they may not hit the same spot. I'm not a physic major though, but passing knowledge of Mythbusters and the discovery channel seems to make it feel it makes sense

Edited by Dozer, 08 November 2011 - 09:25 PM.

[Amechwarrior]

Cake Bandit, on 08 November 2011 - 09:10 PM, said:

Customization has only been a major draw since, oh, I dunno, the tabletop rules? Seriously, that's just a part of the Mechwarrior series. Y'know what game left it out? MechAssault, and I don't think anybody wants to relive that.

You know what else took out customization, MPBT 3025. I have seen many posts on this forum from long time fans of the game, though never played it myself. It seems quite well received even without customs. Yes, making your own 'mech was a big part of the TT rules. It is a critical part of the franchise, but sometimes you do have to have put some rules aside for gameplay reasons. The counter to this is just make a wide array of 'mechs to pick, with an even wider array of variants. This gives the developers control over the loadout, and thus game balance. It also gives you control to pick the loadout you want, if they give us a wide variety of variants. What is the point of customizing if the game already has your loadout included?

Also, the post above mine about how Mechassault was bad, right on.

[gregsolidus]

Because they could examine the system and fix the issues.I won't lose hope till Bryan Erkman says it can't be done.

[Amechwarrior]

True, I would also like to see customizing a 'mech in this game as well. Again, if they can solve the problem of people making custom boats gaining battlefield superiority, then I can see them allowing customization.

[Red Beard]

theforce, on 08 November 2011 - 04:24 PM, said:

Again, is MechWarrior a simulation of the battletech universe, or a walking tank game?

You are simply going to have to get it through your bean. 90 percent of the people that will play this game DO NOT CARE about the BT rule set. It worked for the TT game and that is all. Let it go.

People want a game that makes sense and plays with a sense of semi-reality. The TT rules will hobble that feeling, invariably. Sit down fanboi.

[TheForce]

red beard, on 08 November 2011 - 10:43 PM, said:

You are simply going to have to get it through your bean. 90 percent of the people that will play this game DO NOT CARE about the BT rule set. It worked for the TT game and that is all. Let it go.

People want a game that makes sense and plays with a sense of semi-reality. The TT rules will hobble that feeling, invariably. Sit down fanboi.

Can I join yer clan?

Nevermind I'm not good enough...

Edited by theforce, 08 November 2011 - 11:15 PM.

[zudukai]

+1 for lead indicator, but it can't be perfect at telling you, say 88% accurate depending on the mech, ECM affects this.


mechs should still support changing weapons, as your not going to go to war with somthing that you are not comfortable with, like swapping out MRMs for LRMs or SRMs or what have you, but you need to buy it with earned c-bills, and it may take a "drop" long to install, (unless it's ATMs or other like systems)

i think you are only going to have ~4 mech bays for yourself, you need to take care of them all, and you need to make sure that they are outfitted with what you want or your going to have to borrow a stock mech while your personal one that you trashed gets a total overhaul.

[Cake Bandit]

Whoa whoa whoa, the TableTop rules are a great place for reference whether you like it or not. So far as we should be concerned they're probably going to be the starting point for where things evolve from. Sure, there's going to be some deviation because we're going from one medium to another but you can't just toss away DECADES of lore and such at the drop of a hat.

The reason this forum is full of people right now is because of those games kicking off all the spinoff video game titles and cartoons and everything else. Show a little respect.

I've never even played the Tabletop and I get this.

[Odin]

There are valid boats ready to play.
Lots of them, missile, energy, Ac boats;
We don't need any more of them.

There's only one fix for boating, that'll be making sure there are none!
Once the FPS crowd hits this game, and they must, cos only they can keep this ship afloat with their $
No one gives a d°mn °°°° about rules!
Unless its impossible to make boats, there gonna be lots of 'em ignoring this is simple ignorance.
If you really care about the Battletechworld, TT rules and all! - you want to address this.





Sometimes less is more

[zudukai]

power requirements, weight tolerances per limb, recoil tolerances, ammo space, e.t.c. it can be countered and made balanced from a stock catapult to your grandfathers patchy warhammer.