26 replies to this topic

[Voivode]

Alpine is a funny map. Some people consider it awful (I'll confess I'm one of them) and some people love it. The problem I see with Alpine is that it isn't very accessible to everyone. On assault, this is less so, but on conquest it's certainly a dismal prospect for a slower mech. If you brought a close range mech, you may as well disconnect as soon as the match starts and avoid wasting your time. The problem is, with conquest the winning conditions didn't scale up with the size of the map.

Here's my simple poll: do you think Alpine conquest matches would be improved in any of the following ways?

1)Increase the cap limit from 750 to 1500

2)Add additional cap points so teams with less speed are able to better defend a winning number of cap points.

3)Reduce the rate of resource accumulation and keep the cap points as they are

4)I love the capping on Alpine the way it is, it's the most fun I've ever had in my spider

[FrostCollar]

A higher resource cap for larger maps is by far the easiest way to solve this problem. I don't support more points simply because actually capping points is one of the dullest parts of the game for me. More points means more time sitting in a light on an unguarded point while wishing you could be reading a book and less time actually fighting.

[Jman5]

I voted increasing it to 1,500 because I like the concept. However, I think doubling it is too extreme. 1,000 would be more adequate in my opinion.

[FrostCollar]

Jman5, on 28 April 2013 - 08:57 AM, said:

I voted increasing it to 1,500 because I like the concept. However, I think doubling it is too extreme. 1,000 would be more adequate in my opinion.

Yeah, the exact number, "1500," isn't what's important to me. What's important is the underlying principle - that it needs to be increased.

[MonkeyCheese]

All good points, I would say adding more capture points would be the best one given that when 12v12 comes we would then have more roles for the extra mechs.

[Purplefluffybunny]

I am all for longer games but without a respawn mechanic and given the data Bryan gave us, most matches are ending through killing the opposition or reducing them to the point where capping becomes an exercise going through the motions. When we have some type of respawn I really hope battles will last longer and be a more protracted. I think these type of battles are far more rich in the tactics that can be used.

[Sephlock]

Its just a bad map, at least for less than 24 players.

Oh boy, 30 seconds of trudging forward, followed by 30 seconds of trudging backward, followed by a loss.

Alternatively, several minutes of trudging forward, followed by several minutes of trudging to another cap point, followed by another several minutes of trudging to another cap point, followed by a POSSIBLE 2 seconds of combat, followed by a loss (or a win that doesn't feel like a win).

... yay?

[Panther TBC]

it is obvious that the starting locations for both side needs to be relocated, but I will go a bit further, this map is not appropriate for the current two game mode.

For this map, I would propose a third game mode, "King of the Hill", There will only be 1 control point, and it is located at the antenna tower just above Epsilon.

To win, each team will need to park their mechs in the area right around the tower, it will work just like the conquest point and base capping.

Since the location is so exposed, Most mech will not want to stay in the circle too long, but yet, they will need to get in there to score points. While others will try to play keep away.

Just thinking out loud.

[Helsbane]

Panther, I like the concept, but I think it would add a whole new level of competition if the cap point spawned at a random location each round.

[MonkeyCheese]

Panther TBC, on 29 April 2013 - 04:53 PM, said:

it is obvious that the starting locations for both side needs to be relocated, but I will go a bit further, this map is not appropriate for the current two game mode.

For this map, I would propose a third game mode, "King of the Hill", There will only be 1 control point, and it is located at the antenna tower just above Epsilon.

To win, each team will need to park their mechs in the area right around the tower, it will work just like the conquest point and base capping.

Since the location is so exposed, Most mech will not want to stay in the circle too long, but yet, they will need to get in there to score points. While others will try to play keep away.

Just thinking out loud.

Helsbane, on 29 April 2013 - 05:03 PM, said:

Panther, I like the concept, but I think it would add a whole new level of competition if the cap point spawned at a random location each round.

Yes to both, rotating king of the hill on apline

[Mawai]

A number of these comments can be addressed by a match making lobby. The issue is really ... not being able to select your mech for the match appropriately. If you knew you were running a conquest on alpine you could fit or select an appropriate mech (though some folks will still take assaults) ... while in the current system you take whatever you are given in whatever you have selected to drop in.

Personally, if I am in an assault mech ... I try to always remember to select assault mode.

Other than that ,,, the light, medium and heavy chassis I usually use are all relatively quick (>80kph) that they can work on any map for any game mode.

[Panther TBC]

Mawai, on 29 April 2013 - 06:11 PM, said:

A number of these comments can be addressed by a match making lobby. The issue is really ... not being able to select your mech for the match appropriately. If you knew you were running a conquest on alpine you could fit or select an appropriate mech (though some folks will still take assaults) ... while in the current system you take whatever you are given in whatever you have selected to drop in.

Personally, if I am in an assault mech ... I try to always remember to select assault mode.

Other than that ,,, the light, medium and heavy chassis I usually use are all relatively quick (>80kph) that they can work on any map for any game mode.

It's more than that for this map, I like the overall concept of this map, but the 2 starting location needs to be relocated. At the moment, if you start at the lower basin, your team pretty much started with a handicap as you need to march up hill, while the other team just shoots down at you.

[Keifomofutu]

Panther TBC, on 29 April 2013 - 04:53 PM, said:

it is obvious that the starting locations for both side needs to be relocated, but I will go a bit further, this map is not appropriate for the current two game mode.

For this map, I would propose a third game mode, "King of the Hill", There will only be 1 control point, and it is located at the antenna tower just above Epsilon.

To win, each team will need to park their mechs in the area right around the tower, it will work just like the conquest point and base capping.

Since the location is so exposed, Most mech will not want to stay in the circle too long, but yet, they will need to get in there to score points. While others will try to play keep away.

Just thinking out loud.

This is a good idea. I feel tourmaline could benefit from something like this as well.

[TVMA Doc]

Jman5, on 28 April 2013 - 08:57 AM, said:

I voted increasing it to 1,500 because I like the concept. However, I think doubling it is too extreme. 1,000 would be more adequate in my opinion.

I'd rather have the cap total increase than have the caps accumulate more slowly. If you're going to spend ten minutes walking into battle, you should at least get a few more Cbills for the effort.

[TVMA Doc]

Panther TBC, on 29 April 2013 - 04:53 PM, said:

it is obvious that the starting locations for both side needs to be relocated, but I will go a bit further, this map is not appropriate for the current two game mode.

For this map, I would propose a third game mode, "King of the Hill", There will only be 1 control point, and it is located at the antenna tower just above Epsilon.

To win, each team will need to park their mechs in the area right around the tower, it will work just like the conquest point and base capping.

Since the location is so exposed, Most mech will not want to stay in the circle too long, but yet, they will need to get in there to score points. While others will try to play keep away.

Just thinking out loud.

I agree, although I'd posit that the imbalance between the two spawn points is probably an even bigger issue if you tried to go with this idea. The team spawning near the mountains can always get to the tower first and be dug in and firing pot shots at long distance before the team at the lower base can even get into range.

[Voivode]

Mawai, on 29 April 2013 - 06:11 PM, said:

A number of these comments can be addressed by a match making lobby. The issue is really ... not being able to select your mech for the match appropriately. If you knew you were running a conquest on alpine you could fit or select an appropriate mech (though some folks will still take assaults) ... while in the current system you take whatever you are given in whatever you have selected to drop in.

Personally, if I am in an assault mech ... I try to always remember to select assault mode.

Other than that ,,, the light, medium and heavy chassis I usually use are all relatively quick (>80kph) that they can work on any map for any game mode.

I don't think I like this idea much. The random map choice makes you adjust tactics to what map you got with the mech setup you are in. For me, that helps keep the game fresh.

[Atheus]

Voivode, on 28 April 2013 - 07:57 AM, said:

Alpine is a funny map. Some people consider it awful (I'll confess I'm one of them) and some people love it. The problem I see with Alpine is that it isn't very accessible to everyone. On assault, this is less so, but on conquest it's certainly a dismal prospect for a slower mech. If you brought a close range mech, you may as well disconnect as soon as the match starts and avoid wasting your time. The problem is, with conquest the winning conditions didn't scale up with the size of the map.

Here's my simple poll: do you think Alpine conquest matches would be improved in any of the following ways?

1)Increase the cap limit from 750 to 1500

2)Add additional cap points so teams with less speed are able to better defend a winning number of cap points.

3)Reduce the rate of resource accumulation and keep the cap points as they are

4)I love the capping on Alpine the way it is, it's the most fun I've ever had in my spider

You should add an "I don't care what you do, just fix it" type of option for people who aren't picky about how it gets changed, but want to express a general interest in changing it.

[OneManWar]

The problem with a king of the hill on a map this size is it completely negates the point of having a large map. Why have a huge map if the only place people are going to go is directly to the middle (which can be a problem already with assault). It makes 90% of the map 100% useless. Conquest is best on the larger maps because it makes you go to the sections you wouldn't go to if everyone were to just rush to the middle and duke it out.

So on these larger maps, its more of the game mode that's an issue. Anyone wanting team DM on these bigger maps are crazy, it would be awful and there would be almost no point to having a bigger map than 1000Mx1000M.

[Keifomofutu]

OneManWar, on 10 May 2013 - 11:33 PM, said:

The problem with a king of the hill on a map this size is it completely negates the point of having a large map. Why have a huge map if the only place people are going to go is directly to the middle (which can be a problem already with assault). It makes 90% of the map 100% useless. Conquest is best on the larger maps because it makes you go to the sections you wouldn't go to if everyone were to just rush to the middle and duke it out.

So on these larger maps, its more of the game mode that's an issue. Anyone wanting team DM on these bigger maps are crazy, it would be awful and there would be almost no point to having a bigger map than 1000Mx1000M.

Look up a few posts. Someone had a suggestion for random hill location that would have to be scouted to be found.

[chrx]

Conquest mode in Alpine is just ridiculous. I just dropped in it 3 times in a row in my stalker. Every time the other team was almost annihilated, but won anyway by having a light that did nothing except run capping. That isn't fun even for the light pilot, who spent the whole match running from base to base.

I like Alpine in general, except that cap wins spoil the matches too often (in both game modes). The cap points are just too far away from each other. I propose that all five are moved closer to the middle of the map, at least until we get 12 vs 12. This way the teams don't need to split so much, and the team with more mechs left can seize them quicker. Alternatively the conquest mode should be removed from this map.