30 replies to this topic

[Teralitha]

Karl Streiger, on 29 April 2013 - 06:13 AM, said:

Increase Heat Cap per installed heatsink over 10 with factor or 2 or 3 - make the base heat cap value chassis dependend
Awesome with 28 SHS could have a Heat Cap of (30+18*2 = 66)
JaegerMech with 10 SHS could have a Heat Cap of (10) - ok we need much cooler Autocannons.
Stalker have with 24 SHS could have a Heat Cap of (20+14*2 = 48
Stalker with 18 DHS could have a Heat Cap of (36)

Increase Heat Dissipation per installed SHS for 0.1 and for 0.2 if it is a DHS.

So still there are kinds of different heat approaches but this time...there is a real difference.

Instead of nerfing buffing removing etc. things you are afraid of try to think about alternatives

Id rather just remove double heat sinks and get the game balance back to where it should be.

[Dracol]

IMHO, balance issues of bt/mw stem from the problems caused by the expansion of TT from its initial core technology.

The original rule system was designed with only tier 1 tech. It was also balanced around said tech. Unfortunitly (and this is found in a lot of tabletop rpgs) in order to keep players buying more books and to expand the game world, FASA had to up the power rating of all expansions beyond the initial core rules.

Now, with a table top game, the gaming group can agree to limit expansions, or level the playing field among all players in order to provide a fun and balance gaming experience. (Example: rules for how clan pilots engage only one target at a time).

By creating a video game based on a power bloated rules system, PGI has to fight against the unbalancing issues that would normally be handled by the social contract among the gaming group. I do not envy their job.

[xDeityx]

Teralitha, on 29 April 2013 - 07:54 AM, said:

Id rather just remove double heat sinks and get the game balance back to where it should be.

PGI has no incentive to remove the biggest c-bill sink in the game. They would be financially idiotic to do this. They are less concerned with balance than short-term profit, sadly. DHS are pretty much a required upgrade, so they are effectively adding 1.5m c-bills onto the cost of every 'mech.

You would do better to spend your energy advocating something that will realistically happen.

Edited by xDeityx, 29 April 2013 - 09:07 AM.

[Blackadder]

Teralitha, on 29 April 2013 - 07:54 AM, said:

Id rather just remove double heat sinks and get the game balance back to where it should be.

removing double heat sinks has zero impact on the game beyond forcing people to switch back to boating Medium lasers, Gauss Rifles UAC5, and small lasers. It does not solve the underlying meta issues in any way. All it will do is change the meta, not solve it. The game was just as badly balanced when it was hunchback 4P's running around with 9 small lasers, and mass boating of Medium lasers on assault mechs, along with the K2 Gausscat being the premier sniper in the game.

[MasterErrant]

poptarts boats ll of it is part of the game. nothing wrong with. if someone finds bouncing up and down mostly mmissing shots for ten minutes then let em. my only problem with poptarts is that they are boring to fight. like every other quirk playstyle teamwork is the fix.

the underlying isuue skewing the meta is the convergence issue and the blown heat rules. and untill enough players recognize that and start pushing it
ll stay that way.

I suggest Y'all got to the training grounds and look at what the company men pilot

[MasterErrant]

Blackadder, on 28 April 2013 - 09:00 PM, said:

This is the exact issue, and yet gamers wont grasp it, or cant grasp it. PGI needs to rebuild the core game mechanics, not keep constantly tweeking the weapons systems, because its just changing the FOTM weapon, and all it does is force players to rebuild mechs in order to use the "best" weapon possible.

what he said

[Kraven Kor]

Blackadder, on 28 April 2013 - 09:00 PM, said:

This is the exact issue, and yet gamers wont grasp it, or cant grasp it. PGI needs to rebuild the core game mechanics, not keep constantly tweeking the weapons systems, because its just changing the FOTM weapon, and all it does is force players to rebuild mechs in order to use the "best" weapon possible.

MasterErrant, on 30 April 2013 - 12:20 PM, said:

what he said

Eh... while true, altering the rules "away from TT" would still have the same overall problem - there will always be some "best possible build" that we will figure out and abuse.

I don't always roll a FOTM Mech, but when I 8-man, I roll in a FOTM Mech (and, still, really do quite terribly.)

No matter what they do, short of making all weapons identical but for visual effect, we will figure out the optimal builds, and we will use and abuse them without remorse.

So TT, not TT, keep it as it is or overhaul it completely, the pendulum of balance will go right on penduluming, and the nerf-bat will be swung, and we will move on to the next FOTM build.

Sad but true.

[MasterErrant]

Kraven Kor, on 30 April 2013 - 01:28 PM, said:

Eh... while true, altering the rules "away from TT" would still have the same overall problem - there will always be some "best possible build" that we will figure out and abuse.

I don't always roll a FOTM Mech, but when I 8-man, I roll in a FOTM Mech (and, still, really do quite terribly.)

No matter what they do, short of making all weapons identical but for visual effect, we will figure out the optimal builds, and we will use and abuse them without remorse.

So TT, not TT, keep it as it is or overhaul it completely, the pendulum of balance will go right on penduluming, and the nerf-bat will be swung, and we will move on to the next FOTM build.

Sad but true.

I think you mmisunderstans what I'm sayuing and what I think he's sayin' is that it would have been far better for the devs to start from scratch in the Battletech styls than to twist and warp things as they have while paying lip service to canon.

there are some changes that "Had to be made"
no one is gonna play a sim for example that is based on a (theoretical) ten second turn. so they reduced it to what 3 (For purposes of weapons cycles etc.) and the heat system needed to be come a dynamic rather than abstracted static one. there are lots of TT rules that are very abstract and subsume whole piles of game dynamic into a single die roll. things that have to be worked out in detail in a simulation.

I beleive that MW$ did a pretty good job. which is why it's still being played.
they should have just updated and refined what they had of started from scratch.

but for purposes of game longevity they need to reboot the reboot. IMHO.
this game couild be another 10 years olus game. Because the BT freaks will keep it alive but only if it's our game.

Edited by MasterErrant, 01 May 2013 - 10:38 AM.

[keith]

meta can change easily. when map voting comes in, if players u know on the other side take long range weps, u take close range, baring map. so u lose 1-2 mechs closing brawlers will crush snipers in close range. mechwarrior has always been rock paper scissor. map, wep loadout and tactics win all not the meta. right now u can only chose 2 out of the 3. how can a meta really form when we can not chose the last bit?

right now the meta is only what is the newest toy/ most OP thing. in 8 mans a team of pop snipers will lose on the wrong map. they will complete crush on the right map. it also depends on who they face, if they go against someone who has played many years vs team of pop snipers and know the weakness no problem. name a meta that was really bad that was unbeatable? lets name some splats, lrms, ecm(can't think of any off the top of my head) splats ear bam done, or ct/hud. lrms cover to closer distance to 180. ecm ever play NBT drops no radar pea soup fog? enough said

[Deathlike]

We can only change the meta if PGI lets us.

Unfortunately, they have other major priorities in mind, which is fine. However, their decision making in shaping the current meta is lacking in response and constructive detail (I don't mean stuff that hasn't been released yet, but stuff that's ALREADY HERE and WORKING POORLY). So.. it's up to constructive comments and better ideas that have to be posted.. instead of flamewar central.

[Xendojo]

What meta?

Meta has been dead since April 2nd patch. Glad some things got discovered and are getting fixed, but game is stale. Cookie cutter meta is all we have.

Build a high alpha-direct fire mech, or run ECM mech.

Other than that take a page from my book and stop playing till missiles get fixed.