217 replies to this topic

[Agent of Change]

hmmm

the plot thicks

either computers

are not 100% reliable

or someone is lying.

[Silentium]

Nobody lies on the internet, I'm going with computers.

[Cryptozoology]

Roadbeer, on 03 May 2013 - 10:11 PM, said:

Hmmm, stereotypes and racism in comedy?
Nope, Jeff Dunham is completely original in that.

"everyone else is a racist" isn't a good reason to be a racist hth

[Noesis]

Quote

"everyone else is a racist" isn't a good reason to be a racist hth

OK FOLKS BAN SATIRE !!!

---

"I hate the french because I'm British, it's the law."

But sometimes there are strong examples of personal exceptions to this generalised viewpoint:

Please, now label me for being nationalist and sexist for applying the above in this context as a result,

As it seems exploring any "preferences" in an comedic idea to demonstrate an absurdity or add weight to a thought

simply seems to be only judged as prejudicial these days.

---

Also different people will find different things offensive anyhow

and it will be based on the dynamics of how they experience life.

So are you now advocating we stop interacting with each other as a result.

I thought communication was key?

Surely you're not suggesting to ban the social narrative for fear of causing offense?

Or from the above statement Cryptozoology are you actually stating that "there are"

better reasons for actually being a racist?

[Voridan Atreides]

-The French are pansies.
-The Chinese know nothing except how to copy.
-Every German is a man. Even if he looks like a woman.
-The British are tea sipping fancy pansies.
-Mexicans love cross-country.
-The Japanese make crap.
-America is full of cousin humping r e dnecks and communists.
-The Canadians ride on razor blades of death and slam each other to the ground for fun. Intelligent.

[Silentium]

Everyone knows that Canadians love Kraft dinners with ketchup on top, gawd, get your stereotypes right........

[The Silent Protagonist]

Voridan Atreides, on 08 May 2013 - 05:42 AM, said:

-The British are tea sipping fancy pansies.

sry u wot m8?
come dwn ere Ill *** u up
say tht 2 my face

[image deleted]

Edited by miSs, 09 May 2013 - 05:37 AM.
language/vulgarity

[Voridan Atreides]

Lt XKalibur, on 08 May 2013 - 06:52 AM, said:

say tht 2 my face

-The British are tea sipping fancy pansies.

[Willie Sauerland]

Cryptozoology, on 07 May 2013 - 07:58 PM, said:

"everyone else is a racist" isn't a good reason to be a racist hth

Am I a racist if I hate everybody equally?
Just wondering...

[Cryptozoology]

Noesis, on 08 May 2013 - 02:59 AM, said:

OK FOLKS BAN SATIRE !!!

---

"I hate the french because I'm British, it's the law."

But sometimes there are strong examples of personal exceptions to this generalised viewpoint:

Please, now label me for being nationalist and sexist for applying the above in this context as a result,

As it seems exploring any "preferences" in an comedic idea to demonstrate an absurdity or add weight to a thought

simply seems to be only judged as prejudicial these days.

---

Also different people will find different things offensive anyhow

and it will be based on the dynamics of how they experience life.

So are you now advocating we stop interacting with each other as a result.

I thought communication was key?

Surely you're not suggesting to ban the social narrative for fear of causing offense?

Or from the above statement Cryptozoology are you actually stating that "there are"

better reasons for actually being a racist?

hey before i say anything bro can i just ask if english is your second language ? if it is then that's okay and i appreciate you making the effort here, but basically my point is that whatever it is you typed here is pretty unintelligible!

that's okay though, you seem like a legitimate dude and i'll go ahead here and try to have a discourse with you!

anyway the first part of your post reads like reactionary "the pendulum has swung too far political correctness gone mad" garbage that makes my forebrain hurt trying to read it so how about the second part maybe that one's better ? ?

oh okay, so basically "someone somewhere is going to be offended by something always so why even try not to be offensive ? ? ?"

i'm paraphrasing here ha ha but i think i hit the nail on the head, the head being the point you were trying to make.

an excellent question friend Noesis, I'm glad you asked it (no I'm not) !

Well yes, you have a valid point man, I'm sure that for any given Situation you could find A Person Somewhere who would take offense to it! It's statistically very likely given that there are just over seven billion people in the world! What you're not taking into account is that some of these Situations are garbage and some of these A Person Somewheres are idiots!

see, if a hack ventriloquist comedian has as part of his act a bunch of stuff that is racist as all hell, then he should probably be scorned for it! as an example, mexican people are people that, if i may be so bold, A Lot Of People Have A Lot Of Racist-*** Attitudes About and these racist-*** attitudes end up causing things like Real Life Actual Human Mexican People Getting Shot With Guns By Racist Vigilantes In Real Life.

on the other hand, you have things like grown men who watch my little pony getting made fun of on the internet, and that's really not a big deal at all, because last time i or anybody else in the world checked, nobody is lynching bronies or dropping bunker-busters on their houses or firing laser-guided missiles from UAVs at the bus that they're riding or killing them and their children in a barrage of gunfire !

see it's a matter of degrees and one has to take into account context circumstances and the overall social power dynamics at play in the relations of One Group Of Human People To Another. the world is a complicated place, friend Noesis, but luckily a few things about it are pretty simple and that is that saying racist-*** things is pretty bad no matter what the context because even though you might be Just Joking Guys Ah Ha Ha No It's Cool It's Just An Ironic Joke, you're contributing to a system of oppression and hatred and maybe you should stop and think about how that effects other people negatively and swallow the minor inconvenience of Not Making That Joke ?

Willie Sauerland, on 08 May 2013 - 02:47 PM, said:

Am I a racist if I hate everybody equally?
Just wondering...

well technically that makes you a misanthropist but I guess because most people in the world are at a disadvantage compared to a privileged elite few and most of those disadvantaged people are people of colour then yeah probably you are a racist sorry !


also maybe you didn't know this but this is a really weak and common defense thrown up by racists when they're confronted about their totally innocuous and I Totally Didn't Mean Anything By It, Whatever Man You Chose To Be Offended By My Ironically Offensive Jokes.



hope this helps guys peace

Edited by Cryptozoology, 08 May 2013 - 03:42 PM.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

This **** is so meta yo.

*puff*puff*pass*

[Noesis]

Motivations are more important to consider than method in satire. Though I will agree that wit has many scales of interpretation. I would never use it as an excuse to say that I'm not responsible for my own actions though.

So I would say this probably is best left as a censorship and education issue, as I'd like to think I'm more than sufficiently mature and aware to appreciate Jeff Dunhams' comedy that focuses on some humanistic issues without me starting a personal crusade against Islam for example.

Edited by Noesis, 08 May 2013 - 04:04 PM.

[Cryptozoology]

Actually that's an interesting point you bring up about Intent Versus Content and the rebuttal I would make is that Intent Doesn't Matter! See if I said something like "I hate black people and I think we should put them all on cattle cars and ship them off to an extermination camp" but then said "oh wait ahaha but i meant that ironically" the second thing doesn't actually wipe away the fact that I said the first thing!

perhaps another analogy !

let's say i did A Thing which I intended to be A Good Thing. But that Thing that i did ended up Blowing Up The Entire World. see how what i meant to happen doesn't matter now because the world blew up? ?

racist jokes work the same way

[Noesis]

I don't think its a helpful analogy Crypto as ultimately you are not responsible for other people's actions, unless you of course where the person who committed the action to blow up the world.

The importance I place on satire is a thought process designed if anything to shock you into questioning your values behind social issues. For me if done well it actually helps you be educated to the issues at hand and put them in a sensible place as opposed to being ignorant of the issues, which to me can be largely more scarey and problematic.

Personally as a result I see Jeff Dunhams work as helpful for us to see the stupidity in the violence associated with suicide bombing and irrespective of any political motivations that are applied to the work, I'm personally capable of filtering those things as an adult.

The freedom of speech act does have limitations though, in that you cannot motivate or incite people to commit criminal acts or public disorder. But I don't personally think Mr Dunham's work includes material sufficient enough as a body of work to do this. The rest of the deciding factors has to come as part of other social issues elsewhere regardless of the applied stereotypes that may help to cement certain people's view if they are "less than healthy" (subjective I know) to begin with.

I would say it is edgy material that needs mature consideration however.

Edited by Noesis, 08 May 2013 - 04:33 PM.

[Cryptozoology]

that's an interesting point you bring up about satire! allow me to respond to your point with a question.

when people watch a televised comedy special featuring the comedy stylings of one Jeff Dunham and Achmed The Dead Terrorist what do you think it is that they're laughing at generally speaking?

do you think that they're laughing because "ahahaha, that's so ridiculous, as if people think that all people from the middle east actually sound like that and dress like that and say those things and are terrorists every single one of them! that's so ridiculous, of course the middle east isn't a homogenous caricature, it is instead a region comprising twenty countries , home to nearly half a billion people and thousands of years of human history ! !"

or do you think that most people are laughing because "ahahahaha brown people are terrorists and they sound funny"

Edited by Cryptozoology, 08 May 2013 - 05:01 PM.

[Audit]

Noesis, on 08 May 2013 - 04:31 PM, said:

yap yap yap

Cryptozoology, on 08 May 2013 - 04:55 PM, said:

yip yip yap yap

What in the **** are you two ladies going on about?

[Noesis]

I cannot attest for other people's appreciation of humour.

For myself however when I first saw the work, I was confused, saw the turban however and recognised the assumed ethnicity or cultural origins. Then I was intrigued as to what it was about as a result. Then when the first expression of "Silence I kill you" and the subsequent explanation of the suicide bomber vocation of Ahmed prior to death I then realised it was going to be an extremest ridicule of an extremist ideal associated with that subject matter. I thought it was slightly clever to extrapolate the "extremest" nature of the activity being ridiculed and personify it accordingly as socially it is these minority cases that seek impact for the assumed contained message etc. So in conclusion I thought that the irony of the wit was the most humourous thing for me and quite clever a social tool to convey that kind of message. I did this purely as the humour inspired me on a humanistic level as to the foolishness of the activity.

Yes connotations as to why these beliefs exist or are presumed to exist as parts of Islamic faith, but knowing that the tennets of faith of Islam to some extent, did not just accept this extremest example as being a quality that I can apply in a general way to one particular cultural group even if I'm capable of accepting that it happens irrespective if I see it as a "bad" thing.

I will admit when I was watching it I did think however, in what way it might effect impressionable minds as to generate or cement further hostilities as a result that other people may interpret the piece in a different way and potentially associate more hostile associations to the same cultural group as a result. But again that is an educative issue and only plausible if you believe that people who are watching the material are so ignorant to the issues that they cannot make similar sensible social judgements for themselves. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt as I assume they grew up with a social narrative that the groundwork for ethics and morality allows them to do this for themselves.

But with an extreme view, there is always the exception to the rule. ( "If you can pardon the pun" )

Edited by Noesis, 08 May 2013 - 05:44 PM.

[Cryptozoology]

so you understand then that when presented with problematic material, people who grow up in a societal framework brimming with racism, sexism, etc. are likely to have satirical elements of works they consume pass over their heads and only process them at face value ?

so when i then expand on this and tell you that everybody grows up in a societal framework brimming with racism and sexism do you then understand me when i say that when someone says something racist ironically what they are doing is not cleverly skewering the extremists but instead contributing to the problem ? ? ?

Audit, on 08 May 2013 - 05:25 PM, said:

What in the **** are you two ladies going on about?

it's interesting that you'd assume that people discussing something you're not interested in are women and say so disparagingly and i think that says a lot about you and how you feel about women ! !

Edited by Cryptozoology, 08 May 2013 - 05:53 PM.

[metro]

what exactly is a "Lerian"?

[Noesis]

I cannot agree that is it contributing to the problem in all cases and will not formulate an holistic opinion to attest such.

But I will accept that these issues exist and for the more extreme cases, which I consider a minority, this subject material does generate problems for society, history and the facts therein tells us this.