11 replies to this topic

[PaladinXIII]

I Don't know if this belongs in suggestions or balance as it is a mixture of both, Mods please let me know if needs to be moved.

So, After the introduction of the Highlander, I played a few rounds to see what the new patch brought besides a new mech. Some of the changes I enjoyed, some I did not. I was disappointed to see that somethings were left unchanged. Rather than rage at PGI or any of the devs I decided to just take a hiatus to see where the game would be after everyone got tired of the Highlander and just stick to the forums for a while. Today I decided to play a few rounds to see if anything had changed. This is what I found out:

My STK-3F with 2xLRM10s+Artemis+TAG managed to deal over 450 points of damage but no kills. This was on Caustic Valley

My STK-5M with 2xLRM15s + TAG only managed to deal 150 points of damage and no kills. This was on Forest Colony Normal

My CN9-AL going at 90.3KPH with 2xMPLs, 2xMLs, and 2xSRM4s+Artemis managed to go solo and kill an Awesome with ERPPCs (At the expense of almost complete destruction of my left arm, yay torso twisting though!), Severly wounded LLs Cataphract (Someone else got the kill), and killed a Trebuchet after losing both arms. I then started to engage a Hunchback when I was killed by PPC shots to the cockpit. I did not get the damage readout as I needed to leave, but I was satifisfied with what I did, but disappointed in how I was defeated in the sense that it wasn't a random/lucky shot as I still had CT Armor and the damage readout did not change when the statistics came up and that I was moving at 90.3KPH. This was on Forest Colony Snow.

My thoughts on these matches:

• Missiles are still laughibly pathetic. The weight and critical slots needed to carry them and damage they deal are almost neglible. The only reason I think I did so well with my 3F is that the reload time and lock time were fast, and that the enemy pilots decided to ignore the missiles coming at them.
  
• The amount of Highlanders has dropped significantly, instead of seeing 4 or more per match when they first rolled out, they are now down to about 1 or 2 a match.
  
• PPCs are carried by everything. Saw a Spider carrying one as its only weapon, kind of makes you wonder how the hell that would even work in the BattleTech universe.
  
• Brawlers can still do damage. The only downfall is that medium brawlers do not have the weapon loadout or armor that heavies and assaults have or the speed and reflexes of the lights.
  
• Long-range engagement is the current meta. No mech wants to get under 300m unless they are forced and by using LLs and PPCs they can still do high damage at long range mitigating their risk.

Balancing thoughts:

• PPCs work well, just too well. With their currently velocity, instanteous firing, and HSR, PPCs have the precision of a scapel with the damage of chainsaw. I do not think that there needs to be a nerf to them though. Lowering the damage, changing the range, or raising the heat is not a long-term, viable solution. I do think that now HSR is in effect the velocity can be lowered down a bit, not to previous levels but somewhere in between.
  
• Missiles definitely need a fix. With LRMs, damage and speed need to be looked at as most mech can effectively dodge missiles at 500 meters since it still takes 5 seconds for them to reach the target and if the mech can not dodge the missiles it can probably just shrug off the current damage anyways. SRMs need a little work, I feel that SRMs can deal decent damage but a slight damage boost might be needed, somewhere between their current damage of 1.5 and 2.
  
• Heat needs to be looked at. This is another thread altogether, but many mechs abuse the current heat system and lack of penalties that is currently in place.
  
• Convergence needs a slight tweak. Also a whole other thread.
  
• PUGs need help. Despite the amount of LLs and PPCs flying around, some of my matches could have been won if there was more coordination within the PUG as it almost takes forever in the game to coordinate through typing and there is no speaking system outside of being in a pre-made or having third-party software. Then again some PUGs couldn't be helped even if they got the attention.

Well these are my thoughts from what I experienced and I how I feel, If any wants to add or debate, feel free, lets just make it civilized people.

[AntiCitizenJuan]

It would be nice to see damage tweaks sometime soon.
And it would be nice to see VOIP as an actual priority for PGI.

"People seem to prefer their own 3rd party chat programs" because we dont have one in game.

[OnLashoc]

I agree on most of your comments however the last paragraph / suggestion turned me off.

Pugs don't need help. We don't NEED the Devs to equalize talent / the talentless. They need to spend the time and effort to learn and get better.

Good players are supposed to dominate Bad player until Bad players get better, and Good players decline. That is the circle of life in video gaming. It's when we add the noob tube to games to give the talentless a fairer footing against better players. That is when you sap the life out of the talent pool and they start looking at other games.

Sorry just how I feel.

[PaladinXIII]

OnLashoc, on 30 April 2013 - 02:37 PM, said:

I agree on most of your comments however the last paragraph / suggestion turned me off.

Pugs don't need help. We don't NEED the Devs to equalize talent / the talentless. They need to spend the time and effort to learn and get better.

Good players are supposed to dominate Bad player until Bad players get better, and Good players decline. That is the circle of life in video gaming. It's when we add the noob tube to games to give the talentless a fairer footing against better players. That is when you sap the life out of the talent pool and they start looking at other games.

Sorry just how I feel.

And I do not mean to offend, I'm not suggesting that we punish good players and make this game too easy, I enjoy some of the challenges this game has had. I guess instead of me saying that PUGs need help, I should have said that there needs to be more ways to communicate with PUGs. Typing takes time and sometimes in the time it takes to type a message on what you would like your team/lance to do, the situation has changed. A simple voice chat is what I'd like to see, but even if one is implemented it might just be filled with nonsense and pre-pubescent chatter much like xbox public chat.

[Butane9000]

I agree about the heat system.

It'd be nice if they implemented the overheat override interal damage penalty when a mech starts going over and maintaining 90% or higher heat. That will significantly reduce the amount of PPCs boated and if it doesn't it weakens the build by forcing the pilots to not fire as often or incur internal damage.

So I imagine it this way. All damage listed accrued per second after 1-2 seconds of sustained heat at that level. damage as % of maximum health.

90% heat - 1% damage to components, .5% damage to body sections and engine
91% heat - 3% damage to components, 1% damage to body sections, .5% damage to engine
92% heat - 4% damage to components, 1.5% damage to body sections, .75% damage to engine
93% heat - 5% damage to components, 1.75% damage to body sections, 1% damage to engine
94% heat - 6% damage to components, 2% damage to body sections, 1.25% damage to engine
95% heat - 9% damage to components, 4% damage to body sections, 2% damage to engine
96% heat - 12% damage to components, 6% damage to body sections, 3% damage to engine
97% heat - 15% damage to components, 8% damage to body sections, 4% damage to engine
98% heat - 18% damage to components, 10% damage to body sections, 5% damage to engine
99% heat - 24% damage to components, 15% damage to body sections, 8% damage to engine
100% heat - shutdown, one initial damage tick of 28% component damage, 18% section internal damage and 12% engine damage.

The other option is to incur internal damage with a heat increase of 25-30%.

[jeffsw6]

Butane9000, on 30 April 2013 - 03:18 PM, said:

I agree about the heat system.

I appreciate the time and thought you put into your post, but it is wrong and stupid. Here's why.

First, that will not nerf PPC snipers. All it will do is cause them to not take that last alpha strike and overheat as they are sitting on a hill 900m away, well outside the range of any weapon except other extreme-range weapons.

What it will do is further confuse new players, who already have a hard time learning how to manage heat. The simple shutdown when you hit 100% is already hard to get used to. If you start blowing up their **** when they exceed 90% that's going to be yet more difficult for newbies, and all it will do is force veterans to keep under 90% instead of under 100%.

In short, your post, while commendable for its constructive intent, is a bad idea.

[Kaldor]

jeffsw6, on 30 April 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

I appreciate the time and thought you put into your post, but it is wrong and stupid. Here's why.

First, that will not nerf PPC snipers. All it will do is cause them to not take that last alpha strike and overheat as they are sitting on a hill 900m away, well outside the range of any weapon except other extreme-range weapons.

What it will do is further confuse new players, who already have a hard time learning how to manage heat. The simple shutdown when you hit 100% is already hard to get used to. If you start blowing up their **** when they exceed 90% that's going to be yet more difficult for newbies, and all it will do is force veterans to keep under 90% instead of under 100%.

In short, your post, while commendable for its constructive intent, is a bad idea.

Your post, blah blah blah. In other words, I think your idea sucks, but Im going to play the part of the internet coolkid and put him down with carefully worded BS.

What is your brilliant idea then?

New players do have a hard time. Butanes idea has merit, but its a touch extreme. Cut those values by half and it might be plausible. The real issue is that the game has turned into EliteSniperWithPPCsOnline. Until they boost SRMs back up brawlers really dont have the punch to take down a sniper that can kill or damage you badly in 2 alphas. The other part of the equation is that they need to lower the heat cap, and increase dissapation. This will discourage heavy boating of weapons like PPCs which in turn will help brawlers and new players running stock mechs. And balance might get a little better because of it...

And just FYI, that is an example of constructive criticism...

[OnLashoc]

PaladinXIII, on 30 April 2013 - 03:17 PM, said:

And I do not mean to offend, I'm not suggesting that we punish good players and make this game too easy, I enjoy some of the challenges this game has had. I guess instead of me saying that PUGs need help, I should have said that there needs to be more ways to communicate with PUGs. Typing takes time and sometimes in the time it takes to type a message on what you would like your team/lance to do, the situation has changed. A simple voice chat is what I'd like to see, but even if one is implemented it might just be filled with nonsense and pre-pubescent chatter much like xbox public chat.

Then my fault for jumping to conclusion before thinking out what you said.

I agree there needs to be some voice chat, not whatever that abortion of a client was the last try.

[jeffsw6]

Kaldor, on 30 April 2013 - 05:00 PM, said:

Your post, blah blah blah. In other words, I think your idea sucks, but Im going to play the part of the internet coolkid and put him down with carefully worded BS.

What is your brilliant idea then?

Unlike every other poster on this forum, I have posted a comprehensive set of re-balancing suggestions for every weapon, and discuss how they affect both extreme- and brawl-range play: http://mwomercs.com/...ge-is-too-high/

There are exactly 0 other posters talking about a comprehensive fix. "Nerf this," "buff that," "TT heat penalties," or "delete DHS" is myopic and stupid; and I explain why. Feel free to read and respond.

[Fate 6]

AntiCitizenJuan, on 30 April 2013 - 02:36 PM, said:

It would be nice to see damage tweaks sometime soon.
And it would be nice to see VOIP as an actual priority for PGI.

"People seem to prefer their own 3rd party chat programs" because we dont have one in game.

Just like "people seem to prefer getting information from 3rd part sources" because we don't post news here and we don't have a general discussion forum.

[Sable]

I hope they never put in voice chat for a few reasons with i don't like wearing headphones as the main one. I don't come home from work to get screamed at by teenagers for being noob because i didn't follow them into the center of the enemy team. I have friends and family over frequently and don't want F this and F that blasting through me speakers because its part of "coordination".

And there isn't much that needs to be said to coordinate well anyway. Some basic discussion at the beginning of the match, and then typeing a grid number??? is that super hard to do?

[Kaspirikay]

Some things gs changed, other things stayed the same and people raged.