85 replies to this topic

[RickySpanish]

And it isn't where you think it is! Last night, after hours of enduring sniper warrior online, getting smacked by 4 ppc stalkers and putting up with team mates who I can only assume were mentally challenged, I decided to roll an Alt to see what matchmaking at neutral Elo was like. Immediately I was struck with:

* Team mates greeted each other with more effort than glhf
* Although the level of play wasn't as great, players made attempts to communicate with one another
* There were fewer genuinley good, and genuinley god damned awful players

In general, I found gameplay to be more enjoyable and more balanced at the neutral Elo, and I honestly don't feel like going back to my main. The matches are more frustrating, require me to run the same minmax builds, offer zero room for error and give me absolutely no extra reward compared to starting over. Not to mention the sheer stupidity of some players the matchmaker pits me with, vs a coordinated team on the other side.

I expect CW will fix a lot of these problems, but for now, seemingly finding Elo hell become more prominent as skill increases is just downright bizarre.

[Keifomofutu]

RickySpanish, on 30 April 2013 - 06:38 PM, said:

And it isn't where you think it is! Last night, after hours of enduring sniper warrior online, getting smacked by 4 ppc stalkers and putting up with team mates who I can only assume were mentally challenged, I decided to roll an Alt to see what matchmaking at neutral Elo was like. Immediately I was struck with:

* Team mates greeted each other with more effort than glhf
* Although the level of play wasn't as great, players made attempts to communicate with one another
* There were fewer genuinley good, and genuinley god damned awful players

In general, I found gameplay to be more enjoyable and more balanced at the neutral Elo, and I honestly don't feel like going back to my main. The matches are more frustrating, require me to run the same minmax builds, offer zero room for error and give me absolutely no extra reward compared to starting over. Not to mention the sheer stupidity of some players the matchmaker pits me with, vs a coordinated team on the other side.

I expect CW will fix a lot of these problems, but for now, seemingly finding Elo hell become more prominent as skill increases is just downright bizarre.

So basically no elo at all is more balanced. That's what I'm hearing here. And it has been my observation as well. The tighter weight matching is more important and led to more balanced matches in the past.

[One Medic Army]

Keifomofutu, on 30 April 2013 - 06:41 PM, said:

So basically no elo at all is more balanced. That's what I'm hearing here. And it has been my observation as well. The tighter weight matching is more important and led to more balanced matches in the past.

I think it's that it's more fun to play when all the competitive types and all the genuinely horrible types have been strained out.
Which was the whole point of Elo. Let the competitive play with eachother, let the "steering wheel underhive" play with eachother.

The OPs results is a big reason I don't sync-drop, run minmaxed builds, or cheese. I don't want my Elo to go up into the competitive zone where I can't run "fun" builds anymore.

[Mister Blastman]

If they didn't take the great players...

And match them up with THESE players on their own team (to even out ELO)...



The game would be somewhat better... Broken, but still, better.

[RickySpanish]

One Medic Army, on 30 April 2013 - 06:43 PM, said:

I think it's that it's more fun to play when all the competitive types and all the genuinely horrible types have been strained out.
Which was the whole point of Elo. Let the competitive play with eachother, let the "steering wheel underhive" play with eachother.

The OPs results is a big reason I don't sync-drop, run minmaxed builds, or cheese. I don't want my Elo to go up into the competitive zone where I can't run "fun" builds anymore.

The funny thing is I didn't realise how big a difference there was between what I regularly play by myself or with friends, and how things used to be for me when Elo kicked in. I just decided to give it a go one evening for the heck of it and it was surprising.

The problem is that eventually everyone gets better and ends up in the "not new" range with folk running all the latest and greatest builds - anything to get an advantage, which means there is far less room for experimentation (try levelling a new mech without any of the torso twisting / arm movement skills doubled and see how that works out!).

As I said, this would be fine and I would totally embrace this competitive aspect if it existed, but at the moment it doesn't, so I find myself running the rather fun Community Dragon trial mech instead and not worrying about whether I should be sticking my gun arm out from behind cover for a quick peak. I also learnt quite a bit about how to pilot the Dragon too, which I surely wouldn't have done had I played on this guy and got my noob *** shot off in an instant because I was going sideways instead of up.

I would suggest trying out an alt if you're burning out, it can be quite fun; you earn c-bills at a really good rate, you get a day of premium, and in a couple of hours you can have a heavy bought and kitted out to the nines. You will carry some games a little harder than you ought to, but it's very fun and that's something I certainly seem to have lost track of with this game.

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

I think there are a lot of experienced players that take the game way too seriously.

I can't wait until we get past the "drop -> rush -> fight -> game over" mechanic, and into something a bit more organized for PUG drops.

Even just one minute between the match filling up and "all systems nominal" for PUG teams to organize themselves into lances and come up with a basic starting strategy would help the game immensely.

Edited by Kageru Ikazuchi, 30 April 2013 - 11:00 PM.

[Prophetic]

My ELO has forced anyone that I group with to play against a min of 4 JJ Poptard Highlanders while we run farming mechs, or leveling new ones. This makes the game just plain awful.

There needs to be a diff ELO score for a zero pilot xp mech. Hell not having double HS should drop your score to just about average no matter what. Even uber pilots can not be expected to do nearly as much in a basic starter mech, it is practically a trial mech.

Why should anyone be a detriment to their team because of an ELO score? This makes ZERO sense and makes the game beyond frustrating, especially for friends you are trying to get to start playing and liking the game.

BTW please get some kind of ability to group anything between 4 and 8. Not getting people from ur unit involved because of a ridiculous hard cap of 4 or 8 is really hurting this game.

Edited by Prophetic, 02 May 2013 - 04:19 PM.

[Corvus Antaka]

was there lots of LRMS too?

[Hauser]

Mister Blastman, on 30 April 2013 - 07:10 PM, said:

If they didn't take the great players...

And match them up with THESE players on their own team (to even out ELO)...

http://i121.photobuc...zpsa48d514a.jpg

The game would be somewhat better... Broken, but still, better.

Not how it works.

The match maker is not trying to even out Elo. Rather it starts with a value in mind and looks for players that are near to that value. As time goes by it gets less picky.

If you do get an extremely good pilot or bad pilot on your team it's either because they're new and still have their average Elo, or because there was no other match possible at the time.

[AnarchyBurger]

Funny you mentioned this. Since last patch my k/d ratio has dropped significantly. Mostly d/t a combination of new lrm testing, leveling commando variants, and just not caring. I can only assume my elo went down also. But my gaming experience went up since I've been seeing more variety of mech builds and players. Guess higher brackets just mean more jump sniping.

[Teralitha]

Mister Blastman, on 30 April 2013 - 07:10 PM, said:

If they didn't take the great players...

And match them up with THESE players on their own team (to even out ELO)...



The game would be somewhat better... Broken, but still, better.

This picture is worth a thousand words and is damned funny...

[Zerberus]

Mister Blastman, on 30 April 2013 - 07:10 PM, said:

If they didn't take the great players...

And match them up with THESE players on their own team (to even out ELO)...



The game would be somewhat better... Broken, but still, better.

Ah, the devs work fast, being able to pilot NPC vehicles was just suggested yesterday

As far as the basic Elo-hell principle goes, I have my own opinions after earning my living pushing other people`s Elos in LoL and watching tham failboat themselves right back to where they were before within days..

In MWO my Elo is probably somewhere between "u suck really hard" and "meh, it`s ok, but I`ve seen better"... but tbh it usually seems to "save" me from constantly seeing things like:

200 matches in a row where the entire team was poptarts
Lights are OP and can take down entire teams alone with one ton of streak ammo
Lights die instantly in every match
Clear skies w/ no LRMs
Mediums are completely useless in any situation
Garth`s Cicada

Do I regularly see people that seem to have no Idea what they´re doing? Yes. Do I regularly see people just tearing stuff up? Yes. Most of the people seem to be somewhere in the middle.

So my general recommendations to all that reside in Elo hell are (and I`m only half joking on the latter, dead serious about the former):

Either A: "Play to get better". Record and analyze every match. If you truly believe you`re that good and have mad skills, then it`s more of a philosophy thing than anything else. If you assume that you`re going to be paired with losers and crap out, you probably won`t be investing full effort, significantly increasing your chance of a lose. Forget your disadvantages and turn them into your advantages. Droppiong with nothing but lights? go for a quick cap WIN.

WIN at all costs, using any tactic necessary... Period. It does not matter how you got the win, or hopw lame the enemy team thought it was, it only matters that you won. Just like in real warfare for the most part.

Many people don`t understand that your k/d ratio and damage done mean nothing, which I theorize is a large part of why the TDM crowd for the most part appears to reside in "Elo hell", together with the others that don`t understand the game modes yet. Compaining about getting capped does nothing for your Elo score, but preventing a cap and with it a loss on the other hand does. They may do hellish damage and take down half the team alone, but if they lose by noit caring about the rules or thiking that flaming light mechs helps, the fault for the loss is still their entirely.

For ex. if you`re getting capped and your first thought is not "i have to stop that or find someone else to do it " but "Stupid cappers, rack up the points, guys" ( I have actually seen people type this in /all chat), then you deserve to lose, and deserve to have your Elo go down as a result. Simply because you are not playing to win, you are playing to.. well, something else

Try waging a war and calling your enemy a ***** for not sending all his unit out in a line like it`s 1776, and get back to me with how far that tactic got you

Or B: Start to suck on purpose if you think your Elo is already that low to begin with

Edited by Zerberus, 01 May 2013 - 05:38 AM.

[RickySpanish]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 01 May 2013 - 12:37 AM, said:

was there lots of LRMS too?

Funnily enough, not too many but certainly more than on my main. Generally the builds were either ok, or awkward reworks of the Community Dragon or other well known builds. Even a few SRM cats!

[Rackminster]

Is this what happened to me? I got "good enough" to start seeing all these damned purple Highlanders?

My first few days back, everything felt really good and I was having a lot of fun. Two nights ago I ran into a wall of camping snipers and matches that were less fun. They haven't relented, but I'm finding ways around them. The players behind those Mechs really only seem to know how to use them one way. Even on flat ground, I had a guy last night that kept jumping up and putting his feet in front of my Atlas. I ended the fight by ripping his legs off in mid-jump as they came back into view.

[Mister Blastman]

Hauser, on 01 May 2013 - 01:23 AM, said:

Not how it works.

The match maker is not trying to even out Elo. Rather it starts with a value in mind and looks for players that are near to that value. As time goes by it gets less picky.

If you do get an extremely good pilot or bad pilot on your team it's either because they're new and still have their average Elo, or because there was no other match possible at the time.

It isn't?

Well then Sherlock, how does THIS happen?




... And it happens far more often than not. THAT people, THAT is ELO hell.

[IceSerpent]

Hauser, on 01 May 2013 - 01:23 AM, said:

Not how it works.

The match maker is not trying to even out Elo. Rather it starts with a value in mind and looks for players that are near to that value. As time goes by it gets less picky.

If you do get an extremely good pilot or bad pilot on your team it's either because they're new and still have their average Elo, or because there was no other match possible at the time.

You are describing how it's supposed to work (according to PGI). In reality it can instantly (no "time goes by" part) put you on a team with much higher or much lower Elo than yours, as well as against a team with a very different Elo rating. Which kind of defeats the whole purpose of the exercise.

[RickySpanish]

Recently I've seen a lot of mediums and lights (Cicadas and Jenners mounting lasers) which are a good counter to poorly played poptart snipers. If you can get behind the tart you can shoot out its legs, which requires a couple of players to do fast enough to not take critical damage in a counter attack. However, this method will still fail against a coordinated poptart group which will usually cover their flanks requiring at least some amount of back and forth sniping to knock a few tons of armour / weapons off, before rushing in for the kill.

I don't mind the sniping 'phase'; I build my mechs around the concept of all range combat preferring not to boat anything so the extra phase of combat helps this. Unfortunately the balance of the meta right now so heavily favours long range combat that there isn't any point in closing the gap. Maybe all long range weapons should have a 'short' range where their effectiveness decreases.

[Rackminster]

And long range, IMO, is only a problem in the newer maps. I don't see excessive sniping in River City, Forest, or Frozen City. I see TONS of sniping in Alpine and huge amount in Tourmaline. There's only some in Caustic.

I think that once the map rotations settle down, the number of sniper builds should dwindle accordingly.

But ELO will still hurt... ?

[Praehotec8]

I don't know what my ELO rating is, or where I stand on the scale of player skill (although "mediocre" pops to mind), but I have plenty of fun. I play the mech I want, with the loadout I want, and to heck with min-maxing. I figure that if I start getting into the bracket where min-maxing is required, I will get beaten down to the more middle-ground (bottom?) areas of ELO again, and that's just fine with me.

[PropagandaWar]

Zerberus, on 01 May 2013 - 04:52 AM, said:

Ah, the devs work fast, being able to pilot NPC vehicles was just suggested yesterday

As far as the basic Elo-hell principle goes, I have my own opinions after earning my living pushing other people`s Elos in LoL and watching tham failboat themselves right back to where they were before within days..

In MWO my Elo is probably somewhere between "u suck really hard" and "meh, it`s ok, but I`ve seen better"... but tbh it usually seems to "save" me from constantly seeing things like:

200 matches in a row where the entire team was poptarts
Lights are OP and can take down entire teams alone with one ton of streak ammo
Lights die instantly in every match
Clear skies w/ no LRMs
Mediums are completely useless in any situation
Garth`s Cicada

Do I regularly see people that seem to have no Idea what they´re doing? Yes. Do I regularly see people just tearing stuff up? Yes. Most of the people seem to be somewhere in the middle.

So my general recommendations to all that reside in Elo hell are (and I`m only half joking on the latter, dead serious about the former):

Either A: "Play to get better". Record and analyze every match. If you truly believe you`re that good and have mad skills, then it`s more of a philosophy thing than anything else. If you assume that you`re going to be paired with losers and crap out, you probably won`t be investing full effort, significantly increasing your chance of a lose. Forget your disadvantages and turn them into your advantages. Droppiong with nothing but lights? go for a quick cap WIN.

WIN at all costs, using any tactic necessary... Period. It does not matter how you got the win, or hopw lame the enemy team thought it was, it only matters that you won. Just like in real warfare for the most part.

Many people don`t understand that your k/d ratio and damage done mean nothing, which I theorize is a large part of why the TDM crowd for the most part appears to reside in "Elo hell", together with the others that don`t understand the game modes yet. Compaining about getting capped does nothing for your Elo score, but preventing a cap and with it a loss on the other hand does. They may do hellish damage and take down half the team alone, but if they lose by noit caring about the rules or thiking that flaming light mechs helps, the fault for the loss is still their entirely.

For ex. if you`re getting capped and your first thought is not "i have to stop that or find someone else to do it " but "Stupid cappers, rack up the points, guys" ( I have actually seen people type this in /all chat), then you deserve to lose, and deserve to have your Elo go down as a result. Simply because you are not playing to win, you are playing to.. well, something else

Try waging a war and calling your enemy a ***** for not sending all his unit out in a line like it`s 1776, and get back to me with how far that tactic got you

Or B: Start to suck on purpose if you think your Elo is already that low to begin with

Solo medium can be a PITA. We run medium only or medium with one heavy in our group every Tuesday/Sunday. Passerbys have a blast because it more often than not nuetuers the battlefield of JJ sniper fest (Dont bother me much in my jumpless phract with only a single gauss and erppc) But I see why people get frustrated.