141 replies to this topic

[Unbound Inferno]

This would make it a very interesting game. I like it.

[Screech]

DocBach, on 08 June 2013 - 09:00 AM, said:

its not turning ballistics or energy into seeking weapons, for all intensive purposes the lock is obtaining proper convergence and tightening the accuracy of a weapon. Until the targeting computer gains a full lock, the shots fired at the target won't be offered pinpoint accuracy.

Would rather just add target reticular sway on movement. Why do you want to buff ECM against direct fire weapons?

[DocBach]

Ecm would have to be changed. Having a single item hard lock a weapon system is a bad mechanic....

Oh wait!

[CeeKay Boques]

Piloting a mech in MWO is not simulator (brain power use) heavy enough to also have the shooting have automated parts..

The novels are built around this idea that you are strapped into a neurohelmet, and you half control the mech with your mind and internal stomach gyro. Thank goodness the Mech does the weapons in that scenario. Here, in MWO, you just steer. Making the shoot button have automatic or random components further decreases the difficulty, and brain power required, ie: Boring. (yes I know clicking doesn't require much brain power, but it does require your mind, eyes and fingers to be in sync).

I would be in favor of a more complex shooting arrangement, not taking the power out of the players hands.

[DocBach]

The power is still in the players hands, they have the option to shoot before a hard lock is achieved for a hit to accuracy, or they can keep a bead on the target long enough to get a tighter shot group because they let the targeting computer do its magic.

[Screech]

DocBach, on 08 June 2013 - 12:39 PM, said:

The power is still in the players hands, they have the option to shoot before a hard lock is achieved for a hit to accuracy, or they can keep a bead on the target long enough to get a tighter shot group because they let the targeting computer do its magic.

I would rather base this inaccuracy on movement of the shooter then some target locking mechanism. I do agree in principle that the current pin-point convergence needs some work.

[Unbound Inferno]

Well, the way I see it wouldn't be like a missile hard-lock.

What you'd have is an optimal range of the weapon where it is accurate (like the long range) but beyond that the area is a larger cone range that is spread out where it could hit randomly.

Effects like movement, getting hit and other factors akin to gun placement on the mech change the size and target area when dumb-firing it.

However by focusing the reticle on the target you gain this lock that adjusts your shot for pinpoint accuracy. The timing delay I see in that lock for an accurate guaranteed hit helps eliminate the split-second alphastrike risks of turning a corner or poping up from cover in many cases. This would drastically limit poptarts viability at longer ranges, but not limit the brawling accuracy of closer encounters but allow more movement freedom in the game.

The flip side is the lock needs to be focused and kept focused. Since its a LOS target lock anyway the only counter ECM does is slow the process, but can't prevent it if you can see them. The other factors of target acquisition prevention might need some tweaking, or accept this would encourage either TAGs or actually locking on targets for once by others.

I would say you get a faded lock if the target is not selected, and with one that is targeted and through factors like TAG or NARC the process is accelerated while ECM slows it so its not completely removed or required. The timing shouldn't be long - a second or so - but you would need to keep the crosshairs on the target to keep that accuracy.

However, without the lock the shots are more wild and likely missing at long ranges, while closer brawls it just follows standard rules as is. With it locked the only thing is the cone area should behave much like LRM targets focusing on the center of the mech, but hitting in this relative area the mech exists. Perfect coring or extreme range headshot alphastrikes would be less likely, and the damage is more spread over the mech than perfect pinpoint.

Well, at least that's what I see in it all.

[DocBach]

Screech, on 08 June 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

I would rather base this inaccuracy on movement of the shooter then some target locking mechanism. I do agree in principle that the current pin-point convergence needs some work.

the speed of the lock would have to incorporate five factors:

the speed of the firing 'mech - walking speeds up to 2/3 throttle would increase time, running speeds of the top 1/3 throttle to full speed would have a little longer time

speed of the target - faster targets would be harder to converge on (giving lights and faster mediums a little protection from these one hit kills)

distance to target - computer has to account for range to judge convergence

heat - the higher heat of the firing unit increases the time to gain lock

how much of the target is exposed - obstacles such as partial cover from hills or trees would increase lock time.

Edited by DocBach, 08 June 2013 - 02:21 PM.

[Soy]

Some people will never be able to accept the simple fact that if I am a better shot than you, I will be able to hit you from farther out.

[DocBach]

this game isn't being a better shot, my four year old can point and click on things.
real skill would be being able to hit your target even if there is modifiers making it more difficult.

[Soy]

It's an aspect of the distilled essence we quantify as 'skill' brosquito.

Your kid couldn't point and click his way out of a wet paper bag, that's conjecture.

Edited by Soy, 08 June 2013 - 02:15 PM.

[Screech]

DocBach, on 08 June 2013 - 02:10 PM, said:

this game isn't being a better shot, my four year old can point and click on things.
real skill would be being able to hit your target even if there is modifiers making it more difficult.

Not if the modifiers are random in nature, then luck comes into play.

Edited by Screech, 08 June 2013 - 02:20 PM.

[DocBach]

Screech, on 08 June 2013 - 02:19 PM, said:

Not if the modifiers are random in nature, then luck comes into play.

the modifiers are things you have control over, though. Its your choice to sacrifice speed for a more stable platform, its your choice to run hot and suffer penalties.

[El Bandito]

Technoviking, on 08 June 2013 - 12:36 PM, said:

Piloting a mech in MWO is not simulator (brain power use) heavy enough to also have the shooting have automated parts.. The novels are built around this idea that you are strapped into a neurohelmet, and you half control the mech with your mind and internal stomach gyro. Thank goodness the Mech does the weapons in that scenario. Here, in MWO, you just steer. Making the shoot button have automatic or random components further decreases the difficulty, and brain power required, ie: Boring. (yes I know clicking doesn't require much brain power, but it does require your mind, eyes and fingers to be in sync). I would be in favor of a more complex shooting arrangement, not taking the power out of the players hands.

How is requiring to have a solid lock to shoot where you want to shoot over 400 meters decreases difficulty? The bullets are not homing to anything.

[PEEFsmash]

El Bandito, on 08 June 2013 - 07:58 PM, said:

How is requiring to have a solid lock to shoot where you want to shoot over 400 meters decreases difficulty? The bullets are not homing to anything.

It removes snap-shooting, invalidates torso twist in many situations, and makes someone's fast target acquisition as good as someone that can't pinpoint a certain component until they have been aiming for several seconds.
In general, it lowers the skill cap. Adding extra requirements onto things that are just fine (like aiming) to make them almost personal minigames to perform with yourself before you can actually interact with the battlefield is a stupid way to balance a game.

Give me crosshairs, shoot exactly where I point. End of story. Soy is right; some people can't stand that there are better aimers than themselves. They then say that pointing and clicking is easy and that anyone can do it, but this is invalidated by most players in this game's utter inability to aim worth crap.

Edited by PEEFsmash, 08 June 2013 - 11:11 PM.

[ArmandTulsen]

I have mixed feelings about this.

[Zaptruder]

Soy, on 08 June 2013 - 02:00 PM, said:

Some people will never be able to accept the simple fact that if I am a better shot than you, I will be able to hit you from farther out.

What relevance does this have to the discussion at hand?

Is this just another way of saying Learn 2 play?

If you are as skilled as you think you are, you will adapt faster and better irrespective of the circumstance (instant convergence, or slow convergence as proposed here). So... learn 2 play. I'm confident you can.

[Soy]

Jesus, it's a philosophical question, if I had worded it "if you are a better shot than me, you will be able to hit me from farther out" sit better?

******* christ, you people look for the most ridiculous ****.

[ArmandTulsen]

I have mixed feelings about this.

[El Bandito]

PEEFsmash, on 08 June 2013 - 11:10 PM, said:

It removes snap-shooting, invalidates torso twist in many situations, and makes someone's fast target acquisition as good as someone that can't pinpoint a certain component until they have been aiming for several seconds. In general, it lowers the skill cap. Adding extra requirements onto things that are just fine (like aiming) to make them almost personal minigames to perform with yourself before you can actually interact with the battlefield is a stupid way to balance a game. Give me crosshairs, shoot exactly where I point. End of story. Soy is right; some people can't stand that there are better aimers than themselves. They then say that pointing and clicking is easy and that anyone can do it, but this is invalidated by most players in this game's utter inability to aim worth crap.

Again with the over used and dumb L2P comment.

Well let me reply you with another overused comment-- Go play Counter-Strike/TF2/CoD if you want instant pinpoint kills from far away, this is supposed to be a mech-sim.

We finally have the technology to bring MW games closer to how it behaves in lore, lets do it.

Edited by El Bandito, 09 June 2013 - 01:34 AM.