87 replies to this topic

[Daneel Hazen]

Well they use the Kerensky (KE) (http://www.sarna.net...i/Clans#Economy) and would likely get some sort of stipend. I know this creates a conversion nightmare, but I'm not sure if anyone has thought about it yet. Just for the sake of immersion I am wondering if you chose clanner as your faction will it change the U/I etc...

[FupDup]

Well, that Sarna page says that the most common conversion rate for KE: C-Bills is 1:5, so no big issues there.

[Zerberus]

Actually, the Kerensky is only for use by the merchant class in Inter-clan transactions, "normal" members get something more like a prepaid credit card.

Posession of actual Kerensky by a non merchant results in a degrading by IIRC 2 classes and a public flogging. Probably the best way to **** over an enemy force is to put a Kerensky in the pockets of all their warriors and rat them out. Too bad I`m the only one that ever thought of it AFAIK

Edited by Zerberus, 01 May 2013 - 03:57 PM.

[Daneel Hazen]

LOL!

[Nerroth]

The Diamond Sharks/Sea Foxes use a "C-bill Equivalency Credit" which is pegged to the ComStar C-bill, primarily in order to facilitate transactions within the Inner Sphere. They still use Kerenskies (or other locally-adopted currencies) when trading with other Clans.

(At least prior to 3135, that is; by 3145, the Fox credit is worth 2 C-bills, indicating the change in circumstances forced upon the IS by the blackout.)

Edited by Nerroth, 01 May 2013 - 04:12 PM.

[Daneel Hazen]

Hmm, didn't know that; thanks.

[Lord Ikka]

Zerberus is right in that most of the Clans don't use money. They tend to barter, or in the Warriors case, just straight up order the items they need. K-bills are for merchants and the rare bandits/smugglers.

[DifferentFish]

That is arguably the most ridiculous fictional economy I've ever seen.

[Othello]

I assume they will accept .

[Lee Ving]

DifferentFish, on 03 May 2013 - 05:53 AM, said:

That is arguably the most ridiculous fictional economy I've ever seen.

Its a full implementation of the final stage of anti-capitalist Marxist economy theory outlined in Der Kapital.

I've seen much crazier, like those that believe free-market unregulated capitalism leads to greater production and innovation, not stifling monopolies.

[DifferentFish]

Lee Ving, on 03 May 2013 - 10:35 AM, said:

Its a full implementation of the final stage of anti-capitalist Marxist economy theory outlined in Der Kapital.

I'm aware. Really the ridiculous thing is that's lasted for 300 years when the USSR barely made it past 50.

[Erasus Magnus]

Lee Ving, on 03 May 2013 - 10:35 AM, said:

Its a full implementation of the final stage of anti-capitalist Marxist economy theory outlined in Der Kapital.

I've seen much crazier, like those that believe free-market unregulated capitalism leads to greater production and innovation, not stifling monopolies.

It`s called "DAS Kapital".

And by free market society you mean Voluntaryism, i believe?
Voluntaryism basically is nothing but Anarchy renamed. And its`s not crazy at all. They make a lot of valid points.
They do not refer to the definition of Capitalism that most of us refer to . Their stance is that our current iteration of Capitalism is a form of Socialism and has nothing to do with a free market.

It`s interesting stuff and a good read.

[Naglinator]

I love how small minded we've become that the thought of a non-capitalist society is ridiculous They'd probably find the way we live crazy in turn. People still get rewarded for the labour, and harder work still brings higher rewards in clan society. The distribution is simply more even then ours. Everything which doesn't go to military(and the clan military isnt that large, Clan wolf has a billion people but probably less then a 1 million warriors) gets evenly spread out back to society based on the work you did. There are no billionaires to soak up money.

[Daneel Hazen]

110,000 of 1.15 billion are warriors according to the clan source book...

[DocGiggles]

How do the Clans not just get swarmed over? I'd imagine the IS militaries are vastly larger.

[Daneel Hazen]

No one knows where they are (yet). It's still roughly 400k warriors (plus techs and support) to transport into the IS, which has just as much difficulty doing the same.

[Leiska]

Naglinator, on 03 May 2013 - 12:30 PM, said:

I love how small minded we've become that the thought of a non-capitalist society is ridiculous They'd probably find the way we live crazy in turn. People still get rewarded for the labour, and harder work still brings higher rewards in clan society. The distribution is simply more even then ours. Everything which doesn't go to military(and the clan military isnt that large, Clan wolf has a billion people but probably less then a 1 million warriors) gets evenly spread out back to society based on the work you did. There are no billionaires to soak up money.

This is the crazy part:

Quote

However all goods are officially the property of each Clan which, along with any unused work credits, can be redistributed at will by the leadership. These measures also help serve as a means of exerting control over the general population.

Like all command economies (socialism) by nature, the Clan system is highly susceptible to cronyism, corruption and despotism. In a society like this, you get ahead by sucking up to your patrons, while in a market economy (capitalism) you get ahead by serving the population's needs. This is why the free market is the only remotely moral way to distribute wealth. It's also why only the market economy can direct resources to activities that the population actually needs rather than activities that the political elite needs or thinks the population needs.

Also, billionaires don't "soak up money", they invest it. The investment then creates more jobs, products and services that increase the living standards of the entire population. This is why average living standards have never risen faster than during the 19th century despite wealth gaps that seem extreme even by today's standards. The industrial tycoons built the world and laid the foundation for our comfortable modern lives because the largely laissez faire economic policies of the time let them do that. It would be impossible today.

Edited by Leiska, 03 May 2013 - 05:38 PM.

[DocGiggles]

guys /pol/ is over there

[Terran123rd]

I suspect the clans would use Work Credits, since that's kinda what they use in the fluff, at least where people like "us" would be concerned.

[Naglinator]

Ahh yes, investing all those monies back into factories and jobs right? Lol, nope. Billionaires tend to buy fixed income securities, mainly foreign government bonds and corporate bonds not anything tangible. Albeit I will agree there is always going to be some corruption as in all human activities the clans castes are run internally like little meritocracies were usually the hardest working ones get to the top. I suppose a little bit of cronyism does or can exist. Without any many and with few extra consumer goods it's hard to get really greedy. Most clan worlds have perfect public transit and sports are more popular then building xboxs. Speaking of "moral" capitalist, sit down and think for a second why there are sooooooo many treatments(pharmaceuticals) and sooooo few cures Ahh yes, the always ethical capitalist Don't get me wrong our current system is preferable to our previous system, but don't say it's superior to the clans. The clans works well for them, very very well. They have their needs met, they don't need our need of 17 different(yes the same) smartphones.