90 replies to this topic

[Steel Claws]

Echo6, on 05 May 2013 - 10:31 AM, said:

But you wish the people who don't like the abuse of mechanics to quit so you can play without them. Have fun in your empty sandbox.

I would love to know how any of this is an abuse of game mechanics. Hate to burst your bubble but shooting while in the air on JJs is cannon. You see it in the novels and lore all the time. It is a tactic and nothing more. It also takes far more skill than rushing up to someone with a boat load of SRMs and planting them in their back. Oh wait lets talk about how much skill it takes to run SSRM and LRM boats. Many mechs are meant to boat weapons - the Awesome for instance comes with 3 PPCs. You increase heat on PPCs and you royally hose that mech. Sorry not buying into any of it. You don't like it because it makes it harder for you to play the type of game you want to play. Aint life a *****. If you can't figure out how to counter a sniper then go play tetris.

Edited by Steel Claws, 05 May 2013 - 05:15 PM.

[Helican]

Ph30nix, on 05 May 2013 - 09:42 AM, said:

this is not a simple solution, this is a dumb solution

the best solution is for people to suck it up and learn to play.

If you, and all the rest of the "learn to play" crowd are so amazing at adapting to any and all metas, why on Earth do you care?

Steel Claws, on 05 May 2013 - 05:11 PM, said:

I would love to know how any of this is an abuse of game mechanics. Hate to burst your bubble but shooting while in the air on JJs is cannon. You see it in the novels and lore all the time. It is a tactic and nothing more. It also takes far more skill than rushing up to someone with a boat load of SRMs and planting them in their back. Oh wait lets talk about how much skill it takes to run SSRM and LRM boats. Many mechs are meant to boat weapons - the Awesome for instance comes with 3 PPCs. You increase heat on PPCs and you royally hose that mech. Sorry not buying into any of it. You don't like it because it makes it harder for you to play the type of game you want to play. Aint life a *****. If you can't figure out how to counter a sniper then go play tetris.

I, like most people (I hope/think), have no issues with poptarts, or PPCs. The issue is and will continue to be convergence.

[Soldryn]

ok, i'm not good at trolling, and don't have anything negative to say about this game on a daily basis, so i don't post...but here goes.

I've read many of these "poptarts are ruining the game" threads. I've read many "ppcs are OP" threads. I've read many "L2P noob" threads. I've read many "the meta game is borked" threads. I've ALWAYS asked myself the same question:

Why does noone ever suggest adding a cone of fire to the game to represent the pilot movement modifiers from TT?

seriously. all the "COD/PS2/BF3/HALO" so-called FPS tards (so-called by me. 20+years of battletech, i own every book, and every video game ever produced) infesting my simulator game would have absolutely no problem adjusting to having a cone of fire just like in their silly little twitch reflex games. It would fix the "poptarting" it would fix HALF of the alpha boating issue (the half where if the jerk with 6 PPCs wants to hit the same spot on their target has to stand still both before and after overloading their heat scale) and would be more true to the fact that driving 25+ tons of upright metal ain't exactly the smoothest ride in the world.

but no....that would be simple and logical and not in keeping with company/industry policies regarding catering to the lowest common denominator to make more money.

EDIT - oh wait, it would also fix the "convergence issue" and better simulate the "random hit location" from TT that everyone thinks will take all skill away from the game.

Edited by Soldryn, 05 May 2013 - 07:32 PM.

[MustrumRidcully]

Shadowsword8, on 05 May 2013 - 08:52 AM, said:

Doing something to heat to prevent poptarting simply won't work. Most poptarters have 1 gauss + 2-3 PPC. It doesn't generate a terrific amount of heat, and at worst, they can spend one or two seconds longer behind their cover. If anything, it penalize any other tactic, like brawling, to a bigger extent, and some mechs more than others (good luck finding any Stalker that can fight without running hot).

Better solution: simply prevent large weapons from firing if you don't have your feet on the ground.

Lowering the heat capacity of mechs would hurt even Gauss + 3 PPC users.
3 PPC and a Gauss produce 25 heat. 2 ER PPCs and a Gauss produce 25 heat. Current mechs have a capacity of 50 - 64. Half the cap.

Lowering the cap will make high damage alphas at long range more difficult. It is likely that either the damage is reduced (from a potential of up to 60 down to 25 to 35) or the range, and both will be an effective nerf of alpha strike builds.

We don't need to remove them completely from the game. We just need to lower the range and/or the damage values.

A Dual AC/20 will not be limited by a heat capacity drop. But 40 damage alphas at 270m range are very different from 40 damage alphas at 500m range.

[Yanlowen Cage]

Jump sniping is a tactic. Counter it using tactics. Get on voice comms. Stop pugging and such. Flanking a baited sniper group or not marching like ducks in a row. Stop doing the predictable. And for pete's sake do not stand still.

[Chaotic One]

Soldryn, on 05 May 2013 - 07:29 PM, said:

ok, i'm not good at trolling, and don't have anything negative to say about this game on a daily basis, so i don't post...but here goes.

I've read many of these "poptarts are ruining the game" threads. I've read many "ppcs are OP" threads. I've read many "L2P noob" threads. I've read many "the meta game is borked" threads. I've ALWAYS asked myself the same question:

Why does noone ever suggest adding a cone of fire to the game to represent the pilot movement modifiers from TT?

seriously. all the "COD/PS2/BF3/HALO" so-called FPS tards (so-called by me. 20+years of battletech, i own every book, and every video game ever produced) infesting my simulator game would have absolutely no problem adjusting to having a cone of fire just like in their silly little twitch reflex games. It would fix the "poptarting" it would fix HALF of the alpha boating issue (the half where if the jerk with 6 PPCs wants to hit the same spot on their target has to stand still both before and after overloading their heat scale) and would be more true to the fact that driving 25+ tons of upright metal ain't exactly the smoothest ride in the world.

but no....that would be simple and logical and not in keeping with company/industry policies regarding catering to the lowest common denominator to make more money.

EDIT - oh wait, it would also fix the "convergence issue" and better simulate the "random hit location" from TT that everyone thinks will take all skill away from the game.

Add this with an increase in overall armor and I think we have a solid solution. LOL, I know they have already double the armor! But why does that even matter? More armor plus the suggestions mentioned above would go a LONG way to improving the game.

[Alistair Winter]

1) This completely changes the game, and while it helps in some ways, it's really disruptive in other ways.
2) The Alpha fix is easily avoided by people firing 5 of their 6 weapons, keeping a small laser to avoid a proper alpha.
3) Jump jet fix is coming, though unfortunately it's random shaking rather than a skill based nerf.

[Chaotic One]

[color=#959595]"2) The Alpha fix is easily avoided by people firing 5 of their 6 weapons, keeping a small laser to avoid a proper alpha."[/color]
[color=#959595]Crap didn't think of that![/color]

[Lupus Aurelius]

Let's use a little logic here people. PPCs are still the hottest weapon to run in the game, and boating alot of them will shut you down fast. That downtime can be critical, during that time you cannot suppress the enemy, or damage, unable to move as the tactical situation changes, and with radar shut down, your awareness of the situation becomes marginal. (one reason i never use more than 2 on a build, but i like to sustain fire)

They function as a ballistic weapon. Therefore, any jump capable mech boating ballistics will be just, if not more effective, due to lower heat issues. AC10 does the same damage, AC20 twice the damage, Gauss 1.5 times the damage. A jump sniper with Gauss can keep it going all day long, and never overheat.

I have 2 jump capable mechs, both HGNs. Nice for getting into those hard locations, and best fun when brawling and someone runs behind a building or ridge and you can get enough height to nail him, but usually, you are always moving with that tactic, and at relatively close range. Jump sniping at range is only effective if the enemy STAYS AT RANGE. If you use cover, ECM, to hide your position and move in, and use scouts to run behind their lines and harass the jump sniper till you get close enough to primary him, it's not an issue.

More importantly, your own fits need to change. People like to boat or brawl, or snipe, but their mech's load out becomes very 1 dimensional. In organized teams you may want to specialize, but if you are dropping as a pug, you want a balance load out. Build you load out so that you have at least 1 long range weapon, with increasing damage as you get closer to the targets, preferably with your long range weapon still effective for close range work.

If everyone, or even half the team has a long range weapon in their build, snipe back at the snipers. Learn to time your shots to their jump, it's like leading a target. Get a few shots off, move location, because after the second shot, he's going to know where you are. Pop up at another random location and lay in a few more shot, rinse repeat. Meanwhile, you light pilots, you should be all over those snipers at close range harassing the hell out of them and making turn donuts trying to get you.

Stop complaining that people don't play the way you want them to, or that you can't boat your FOTM. Use a balanced build that allows for tactical flexibility, use ECM and cover, communicate with your team mates and coordinate what you do. That's the key, COMMUNICATE AND COORDINATE. Jump snipers are not so effective then.

Edited by Lupus Aurelius, 09 May 2013 - 11:08 AM.

[MustrumRidcully]

Chaotic One, on 09 May 2013 - 10:16 AM, said:

[color=#959595]"2) The Alpha fix is easily avoided by people firing 5 of their 6 weapons, keeping a small laser to avoid a proper alpha."[/color]
[color=#959595]Crap didn't think of that![/color]

And that's why I can only repeat - lowering the heat capacity will help much more. The only way to "game" a lowered heat capacity are not macros, it's chain fire where you wait between shots of individual weapons until you have cooled off enough to not overheat.

Of course, in turn I want to see a higher heat dissipation - mechs currently produce 2 to 20 times the heat (but also damage) they were designed around. The high heat capacity hides this problem, because you can stack up enough short term firepower that you don't need to worry about sustainable firepower - especially in a sniper build.

The other thing that could help to some extent would be limiting convergence, and forcing weapons to fire in a straight line from their weapon hardpoint. So if a PPC is installed 2m to the right and 2m to the bottom of your cockpit, the PPC will also hit 2m to the right and 2m to the botton on your target. Ideally, the reticule will be adjusted so it shows the relative position of the weapon, but whether it does or not -if you want to be sure you hit the same location, you better chain fire and aim each weapon individually.

Quote

They function as a ballistic weapon. Therefore, any jump capable mech boating ballistics will be just, if not more effective, due to lower heat issues. AC10 does the same damage, AC20 twice the damage, Gauss 1.5 times the damage. A jump sniper with Gauss can keep it going all day long, and never overheat.

You can never fit more than 4 AC/10s, Gauss Rifles or AC/20s on a mech, and you will be forced to expend about twice the weight. "Normally" (as in "Table Top Normal") you would need to put in a lot of heat sinks or double heat sinks to run 4-6 PPCs. But in MW:O, we have a huge heat capacity, and all those poptarters and snipers, they run on heat capacity. They can't sustain their firepower for any amount of time, but they have to advantages that reeinforce each other.
1) They can go back into cover quickly and take their time cooling off.
2) They can still deal a lot of spike damage in a short time.

1 4PPC Sniper might be able to deliver 80 damage before it needs to cool off. 80 damage already is a lot, most heavies will have an armour section breached. 10 seconds later, another 40 damage can be enough to destroy that section. Now image there are 2 Snipers, working togheter... Suddenly you get 160 damage in a very short time. The next time they come from hiding, it might be the last thing you see.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 09 May 2013 - 01:13 PM.

[Rhent]

Chaotic One, on 05 May 2013 - 08:17 AM, said:

This is another of "those" threads griping about how unbelievably screwed up this game it at the moment. Let's take a deep breath and think about the PPC/Sniping/Poptart issue. I am an old table top battletech player and have to say they have screwed the pooch on this one. Every hit was randomly rolled for the location the damage was applied to. This pinpoint convergence thing kind of borks the whole thing up; so why not discard some of the tabletop notions?

Things I would change.

1) Double (or more) the center torso armor only. I have died on a number of time with just my center torso damaged and this frickin sucks. Let' face it we all aim for the center torso doubling the armor will mean brawlers can finally do their jobs again.

2) Alpha's add 50% to heat. Would help with those 4 ERPPC builds.

3) Cockpit shake when you jump. It does not have to be bad just enough to make it more difficult to jump and shoot at the same time. It seems PGI may be pretty closed to this idea (read it in another post so it could be inaccurate) but this really needs to happen.

I look forward to any better ideas or reasons mine will not work.

Why don't you take it the logical step further. Have a magic hand appear every time you fire and see magic dice appear that tells you if you hit and then roll to see where you hit. Sounds pretty damn lame for a game.

[Corvus Antaka]

johnyboy420, on 05 May 2013 - 11:26 AM, said:

from Battle tech wiki about jumpjets: Jumping makes a 'Mech harder to hit, but the accuracy of weapons fitted to the jumping 'Mech is also adversely affected

Because of the heat produced by jump jet activation and limited on-board fuel, jump jets can only maintain thrust for a few seconds. A far cry from flight, jump jets nevertheless allow a 'Mech to make short leaps sufficient enough to outmaneuver 'Mechs not similarly equipped or bypass obstacles and unfavorable terrain

but PGI wont do shake what else is there?

funny cause jumpjets in MWO do exactly the opposite of what they do in TT. nevermind that the spiders jumpjet distance in TT is 240meters.

TT/btech 3025 jumpjets would solve all of these problems and give us real DFA...one day when collisions come back.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Chaotic One, on 05 May 2013 - 08:17 AM, said:

This is another of "those" threads griping about how unbelievably screwed up this game it at the moment. Let's take a deep breath and think about the PPC/Sniping/Poptart issue. I am an old table top battletech player and have to say they have screwed the pooch on this one. Every hit was randomly rolled for the location the damage was applied to. This pinpoint convergence thing kind of borks the whole thing up; so why not discard some of the tabletop notions?

Things I would change.

1) Double (or more) the center torso armor only. I have died on a number of time with just my center torso damaged and this frickin sucks. Let' face it we all aim for the center torso doubling the armor will mean brawlers can finally do their jobs again.

2) Alpha's add 50% to heat. Would help with those 4 ERPPC builds.

3) Cockpit shake when you jump. It does not have to be bad just enough to make it more difficult to jump and shoot at the same time. It seems PGI may be pretty closed to this idea (read it in another post so it could be inaccurate) but this really needs to happen.

I look forward to any better ideas or reasons mine will not work.

I'll just say this. Welcome back to Mechwarrior 4 Mercs... but atleast in MW4, you could do full damage with snap shots from lasers.

[Roadbuster]

Yanlowen Cage, on 06 May 2013 - 02:39 AM, said:

Jump sniping is a tactic. Counter it using tactics. Get on voice comms. Stop pugging and such. Flanking a baited sniper group or not marching like ducks in a row. Stop doing the predictable. And for pete's sake do not stand still.

There is little you can do if you get hit by 3PPC and a Gauss and die because you tried to run the 100m from one cover to the next at 130kph.
Or peek around the corner and get yourside torso or arm vaporized.

The problem is that this is not fun anymore.
If you have no chance against the current AC20/PPC/Gauss boaters/snipers/poptarts with a mixed loadout and other mechs, something is wrong with the game.
Did you try getting into a medium mech lately? Get your side torso blown away by 1 hit?
You could lower your armor to minimum on some mechs, because it doesn't make a difference when 1 alpha from 500m away takes you out.

And, no, I'm not a noob complaining about getting shot. I just like to play different mechs, and when you compare the performance of mechs it becomes obvious that there is a big difference in effectiveness, depending on loadout, no matter how skilled you are.

[Lagster]

Lupus Aurelius, on 09 May 2013 - 10:52 AM, said:

Let's use a little logic here people. PPCs are still the hottest weapon to run in the game, and boating alot of them will shut you down fast. That downtime can be critical, during that time you cannot suppress the enemy, or damage, unable to move as the tactical situation changes, and with radar shut down, your awareness of the situation becomes marginal. (one reason i never use more than 2 on a build, but i like to sustain fire) They function as a ballistic weapon. Therefore, any jump capable mech boating ballistics will be just, if not more effective, due to lower heat issues. AC10 does the same damage, AC20 twice the damage, Gauss 1.5 times the damage. A jump sniper with Gauss can keep it going all day long, and never overheat. I have 2 jump capable mechs, both HGNs. Nice for getting into those hard locations, and best fun when brawling and someone runs behind a building or ridge and you can get enough height to nail him, but usually, you are always moving with that tactic, and at relatively close range. Jump sniping at range is only effective if the enemy STAYS AT RANGE. If you use cover, ECM, to hide your position and move in, and use scouts to run behind their lines and harass the jump sniper till you get close enough to primary him, it's not an issue. More importantly, your own fits need to change. People like to boat or brawl, or snipe, but their mech's load out becomes very 1 dimensional. In organized teams you may want to specialize, but if you are dropping as a pug, you want a balance load out. Build you load out so that you have at least 1 long range weapon, with increasing damage as you get closer to the targets, preferably with your long range weapon still effective for close range work. If everyone, or even half the team has a long range weapon in their build, snipe back at the snipers. Learn to time your shots to their jump, it's like leading a target. Get a few shots off, move location, because after the second shot, he's going to know where you are. Pop up at another random location and lay in a few more shot, rinse repeat. Meanwhile, you light pilots, you should be all over those snipers at close range harassing the hell out of them and making turn donuts trying to get you. Stop complaining that people don't play the way you want them to, or that you can't boat your FOTM. Use a balanced build that allows for tactical flexibility, use ECM and cover, communicate with your team mates and coordinate what you do. That's the key, COMMUNICATE AND COORDINATE. Jump snipers are not so effective then.

True that, I rarely have issues with poptarts or snipers. But Alpines is still a bit of a problem if you don't bring at least one long range weapon... so bring one. Or two. Swap out a couple of brawly weapons for ranged ones - you won't be alphaing all the time anyway, your sustained DPS is limited by your heat dissipation, not how many guns you have. Firing one of your six guns 6 times per second, every second, is the same as firing 6 guns once every 6 seconds. So bring a balanced loadout everytime and you'll do fine.

[Roadbuster]

Lagster, on 10 May 2013 - 02:48 AM, said:

True that, I rarely have issues with poptarts or snipers. But Alpines is still a bit of a problem if you don't bring at least one long range weapon... so bring one. Or two. Swap out a couple of brawly weapons for ranged ones - you won't be alphaing all the time anyway, your sustained DPS is limited by your heat dissipation, not how many guns you have. Firing one of your six guns 6 times per second, every second, is the same as firing 6 guns once every 6 seconds. So bring a balanced loadout everytime and you'll do fine.

Yes bring 1-2 long range weapons like? PPC, Gauss, AC5, AC2, LL, ER-LL, ER-PPC, LRM.
I won't go into details of these weapons because everyone knows them.
Now you get out of cover and fire that weapon.
You fire your weapon 6 times and they fire theirs 1 time.
Out of your 6 hits 2-3 hit the CT, and the rest hits either right torso, left torso, legs or head. And that is if you are rather good at shooting moving targets at 800m+ range.
So you dealt 20-30 damage to the CT and the rest is spread over the mech while you get hit for 60 damage in one part of your mech.
See the difference?

You can fire back, but one lucky shot is enough to destroy your mech or a part of it. Maybe you live longer, but it's a downhill battle.
It doesn't matter how good your tactic, teamplay or skills are if it takes you 4 times longer to destroy a mech.

I've tried lots of tactics, different loadouts and mechs but in the end the deciding factor is how fast you can take out a part of a mech. That's why even not so good players can get kills with rather little effort and just a bit of luck.
In the current state of the game you are gimping yourself if you play anything with a balanced loadout.

And that is why PGI has to limit the ammount of weapons you can fire at once or all fired weapons hitting the same spot in some way.
The most popular ideas to achieve this are to change weapon convergence and/or to limit heat threshold.
So either you can't fire as many weapons at once but have to use more chainfire and/or your shots will not all hit the same spot.

[MadcatX]

Heat, convergence, pinpoint damage. Any and all of these could be tweaked to fix THIS meta.

However it won't fix the next meta, or the one after that. If you look at the root cause of all the meta's and cheese builds, you'll always find either hardpoints or ECM as being part of the problem. We'll see what happens in regards to ECM when the patch comes out.

Hardpoints\boating is a tougher one to tackle. Essentially we all want customization. Unfortunately what we want is also what is screwing us over. The current hard-point configurations are what brought about LRM boating or the gausspult to name a few. Heck, it even took an otherwise inferior weapon, SSRM's, and made them one of the nastiest things on the field for a while.

For me it comes down to either accepting customization as is and having to endure the meta that comes with it (look at previous mechwarrior games multiplayer to see how that worked) out or having a limit imposed on customization but stop this cycle of taking a newly buffed weapon, boating it, and having that become the new meta.

That and past experience has shown that meta changes were a result of nerfing the weapon itself or introducing an element which rendered it obsolete.

[Ph30nix]

first

Convergance will not fix snipers in the least, it will only screw brawlers at most. Convergance works in a way that the farther away your target would be the easier it would be for all weapons to focus on it (they require less adjustment to hit the same target). Brawlers on the otherhand would find themselves aiming at a target 90 meters from them but find out they have weapons that hae ZERO chance of hitting their target if they go by their target recticle. They would have to add in a Target recticle for EACH WEAPON, sorry but hud's alittle crowded as it is. I wouldnt mind trying it out to be honest but it wouldnt do anything but please a small portion of the playerbase and alienate more new players then the game already does.

what convergance people REALLY want, is to prevent all weapons from hitting the same location on a target when fired at same time. Guess what you might lose a few FOTM snipers and highlander levelers but anyone who uses JJ and snipes in a non lazy way (up and down in one spot is just pathetic) the rest will adapt. the most you might buy yourself is one or two salvos before your dead. Which you might as well be because your arms/legs will end up taking massive damage and possibly destroyed since alost of heavies and assaults like to run with less leg armor because who in their right mind botheres to leg a big boy? (heh,e i do and its sad how easy it is on alot of builds once you know who has the tonnage for armor and who doesnt)
and again back to the poor brawlers.... a move making weapons basicly go straight from their launch point would DESTROY brawling plain and simple. Oh and in the end any smart poptart would just put all their weapons in differnt groups and manually fire them all one at a time, would spread out damage more then current alpha's but no where near what would make people happy.

also the JJ shake isnt going to do much, at least not how i play when using JJ (treb 7m) unles sthey make the shake something so rediculous to make any shot completely pointless (which im sure would make alot of QQ's happy)


as for heat........ The idea of lowering heat threshold but increasing cooldown rate is actually A BUFF to boats. as long as they can get of their ONE shot without over heating then they are golden. In fact you just increased their DPS significantly since they would have less time to wait between shots without overheating from firing!!!! Oh and you would also create the possibility of a nonstop chain fire PPC build as it is now ive made a build in an Awesome with 4 ppc's XL engine and as many heatsinks as you can fit that can handle sustained chain fire for a LONG TIME.
would you like your game when instead of poking your head out to get it possibly blown off, you run into a team with 3 or so players chain firing PPC's? imagine if the jager ac/2 macro build was firing PPC's instead of ac/2 thats close to what you would run into.

and increasing the heat to PPC wouldnt fix them it would just break them and make them useless again.


as i and many other have said, the solution is to learn to play. rude or stuck up as it sounds its the truth. The only thing PGI can do, is buff other weapons that are currently either useless, ineffective or just a complete joke. especailly LRM"s get those back into the game and you will see less poptarts because they cant handle jumping face first into 100+ missles.

as for tips on Learn to play

1. Get a clue as to whats going on around you
2. learn the usual sniper locations
3. learn routes that gets you in close enough to take them out but out of their fire area
4. dont expect every build you have to counter every build someone else might have
5. WORK WITH YOUR TEAM
6. See #5
7. communicate.
8. if you know a sniper is lookin at where you behind cover waiting for you DONT PEAK OUT.
check your map, see where your teammates are, call out the snipers location to let them either attack them or distract them so you can move.
9. if no one is in a position to take them out then either find a differnt route out of where you are (if you backed yourself into a death trap thats your own fault) or take one for the team, call out their location and say you will be bait.

if LRM's were in the game in a viable way all it would take is one scout targeting the snipers so LRM's can be rained down on them, they wont dare jump if they see "incoming missle" at least not if missles were at a level to be respected.

[MustrumRidcully]

Ph30nix, on 10 May 2013 - 07:03 AM, said:

first

Convergance will not fix snipers in the least, it will only screw brawlers at most. Convergance works in a way that the farther away your target would be the easier it would be for all weapons to focus on it (they require less adjustment to hit the same target).

On an alpha strike, it doesn't matter. If your 2 PPCs and the Gauss Rifle are 5m apart from each other, they will hit 5m apart from each other on the target. IF you start chain-firing, you know have to preciselyadjust your aim between shots. A slight change might not require a lot mouse-moving force, but it requires a lot of hand-eye coordination.

Quote

Brawlers on the otherhand would find themselves aiming at a target 90 meters from them but find out they have weapons that hae ZERO chance of hitting their target if they go by their target recticle. They would have to add in a Target recticle for EACH WEAPON, sorry but hud's alittle crowded as it is. I wouldnt mind trying it out to be honest but it wouldnt do anything but please a small portion of the playerbase and alienate more new players then the game already does.

The HUD might get more loaded with this, that is true (and not adding it to the HUD... I already forsee people showing us how they painted auxillary reticules on their monitor, and other people calling them out for cheating because that's just like an aim bot).

I'd be happy to try it. But if PGI doesn't want to, they will need to find other ways to deal with it. For example, by making alpha striking more "costly" - lowering the heat capacity and/or adding heat penalties. Or removing alpha strikes and grouped simultanous fire entirely and creating a server enforced 0.2 second delay between each weapon fire, and then turning Alpha Strike in a special ability that you can use only once in 10 seconds or something like that.

Quote

as for heat........ The idea of lowering heat threshold but increasing cooldown rate is actually A BUFF to boats. as long as they can get of their ONE shot without over heating then they are golden.

Half the heat capacity, and you'll see how oftne you can fire without overheating. Anything that uses more than 3 Standard PPCs will run into trouble.

Quote

In fact you just increased their DPS significantly since they would have less time to wait between shots without overheating from firing!!!! Oh and you would also create the possibility of a nonstop chain fire PPC build as it is now ive made a build in an Awesome with 4 ppc's XL engine and as many heatsinks as you can fit that can handle sustained chain fire for a LONG TIME.

Non-Stop firing PPCs is not so scary if they fire all with a 0.5 second delay.
1) You can't react to an alpha. The shot happens, you take damage, you can react.
2) Each shot needs to be aimed individually, making it more difficult to actually hit the same spot.

Quote

would you like your game when instead of poking your head out to get it possibly blown off, you run into a team with 3 or so players chain firing PPC's? imagine if the jager ac/2 macro build was firing PPC's instead of ac/2 thats close to what you would run into.

They won't macro their PPCs to fire as fast as the current AC/2s. You can pack about 16 DHS or so a Quad PPC Jagermech. Currently that would give you a heat cap 58. Half that, we're at 29. Now assuming true Dubs and double dissipation across the board, we're at 6.4 heat dissipation per second. If each PPC fires with a 0.1 second delay, 4 PPCs would bring you to 32 heat.
In 0.3 seconds, you can dissipate 1.92 heat, so still a bit too high. Double the delay to 0.2 second between each shot, and you're at 28.16 heat after 0.6 seconds. You now turned your 4 PPCs weapon from a pinpoint accurate weapon to a 0.6 second duration weapon that fires 4 pulses.
That sounds different enough from the current meta to me. This is only 4 Standard PPCs - ER PPCs will worsen the situation.

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and increasing the heat to PPC wouldnt fix them it would just break them and make them useless again.

With that I agree. PPCs are still terrible weapons for sustained fire, they only work if you can exploit the heat capacity, maximizing your burst potential and minimizing your exposure.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 10 May 2013 - 07:42 AM.

[Chaotic One]

Rhent, on 09 May 2013 - 02:05 PM, said:

Why don't you take it the logical step further. Have a magic hand appear every time you fire and see magic dice appear that tells you if you hit and then roll to see where you hit. Sounds pretty damn lame for a game.

LOL Well it may actually work better then the current system(Just Joking). Listen if you just want to be an jerk and not contribute please don't bother to post at all.