22 replies to this topic

[Mizore]

Hi folks, some days ago Paul stated, that they are working on a Narc-buff:

"NARC is going to have its firing distance increased as well as it's duration. This is still undergoing testing and will have numbers for you when they're ready."


If you ask me, this doesn't solve the problem at all because the problem is, that you have to give up 4 - 5 tons for Narc to get nearly nothing usefull in exchange.
In a light mech, these 5t mean a speed-loss of about 30 - 45 kph!!! (XL-Engine & Speed Tweak)
And speed means a much bigger chance to survive... so with Narc equipped you get yourself in great danger and you are almost useless at the same time because Narc is so weak.


Sure this changes are a first step in the right direction, but there are still 2 main issues that have to be adressed to make Narc usefull:

1.: The Narc-signal should be seen by any teammate, regardless if the target is in the line of sight of someone! (at the moment you have to keep the enemy mech in the target or noone can see/target this mech)

2.: The 30 damage cap has to go or be greatly increased. Mostly the Narc-signal is almost gone before the first missiles hit the target (that's another problem, the missiles are too slow) or at the latest when the first salvo hit the target, then it's gone for sure.
Theoretically you have to replace Narc after every missile salvo that hit the target or more the less sooner, because of further damage done to the target by energy or ballistic weapons.

Edited by Mizore, 05 May 2013 - 08:33 AM.

[Sybreed]

NARC dmg cap has to go. Using the same logic, ECM should stop working after jamming 10 locks. Duh.

NARC needs to give higher angle of attack to missiles. Needs to last 30 seconds and usable by everyone with LRMs on the team. Not requiring LOS once you narced someone.

There ya go, NARC is no longer 5 tons wasted.

[hammerreborn]

Sybreed, on 05 May 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

NARC dmg cap has to go. Using the same logic, ECM should stop working after jamming 10 locks. Duh.

NARC needs to give higher angle of attack to missiles. Needs to last 30 seconds and usable by everyone with LRMs on the team. Not requiring LOS once you narced someone.

There ya go, NARC is no longer 5 tons wasted.

That isn't the same logic at all....one is a constant wave of jamming signals emitting from a mech, while a narc is a little sticky missile warhead on the side of a mech that can get damaged when shot.

The "same logic" would be that if ECM took enough damage it's stop working. Oh wait it does!

[Mizore]

Yeah, I think it's more reasonable to set up the dmg cap to a higher ammount ~ 75-100 dmg.

Edited by Mizore, 05 May 2013 - 10:15 AM.

[Deathlike]

I read NARC buffs and loled.

PGI has NO idea to rebalance this correctly at all.

It has to be made more useful.. even while under ECM cover (in some small way shape or form). A range buff will do absolutely nothing to make this more useful.

Edited by Deathlike, 05 May 2013 - 02:00 PM.

[Avimimus]

Anyone know when high-explosive rounds were first fielded for the NARC?

[Corvus Antaka]

until NARC counters ECM itll stay useless.

[Keifomofutu]

I said this in another thread. For narc to be useful and provide an important buff to LRMs it needs to substantially improve their ability to indirect fire. Make narc improve the arc of the lrms to let it shoot over higher cover.(but not 90 degree angle for the love of god).

Taking a narc costs more tonnage than an srm6. It should be a bad thing to be hit by one. Being lit up and getting hit more easily would fit the bill.

[Xendojo]

Iv'e been saying this since NARC was released:

The timer on the beacon needs to go.

This alone would make NARC viable. After the advent of ECM i also suggested that the NARC'd mech be visible as normal through ECM cover. They have already increased the time limit on the beacon, but it needs to be removed altogether. The damage mechanic was a nice thought, but this limitation also needs to be removed.

NARC beacons should remain active until the component it is attached to is destroyed. This also makes aim more of a factor on a short range, dumb-fire, low ammo count weapon. This one change is the only way NARC will EVER be viable.

Until this happens NARC will only ever be one thing: a waste of a missile hardpoint.

Edited by Xendojo, 06 May 2013 - 04:53 AM.

[3rdworld]

Narc should draw all missiles, friendly or enemy. It overides all missile locks and works like a homing beacon for any missile with an active guidance system (streaks or LRMs).

How cool would it be for a light to pop narc on an enemy, then the missile boats just have to shoot the LRMs in the general direction of the enemy, and narc does the rest?

And any friendly missile boat will be friendly firing if they shoot their missiles near a target effected with Narc.

Edited by 3rdworld, 06 May 2013 - 06:14 AM.

[FrostCollar]

At a minimum, NARC needs to

• Be at least somewhat effective within ECM
  
• Have more ammo per ton
  
• have higher projective velocity
  
• Longer timer/no timer

Right now they're only looking at the fourth option, and that's not enough.

Anyways, for NARC to truly be useful, LRMs have to be useful and perhaps SRMs should get the NARC homing that they have in the TT. Even if all four listed things were implemented, they'd still be useless without properly powerful missiles.

3rdworld, on 06 May 2013 - 06:13 AM, said:

Narc should draw all missiles, friendly or enemy. It overides all missile locks and works like a homing beacon for any missile with an active guidance system (streaks or LRMs).

That's the Nemisis Pod for the Improved NARC. It's made 12 years in the future and the intentional and unintentional griefing it could cause mean that I doubt we'll ever see it.

[Tennex]

its very hard to buff NARC without making it OP in teamplay. just NARC a person and have 3-2 LRM boats make it rain.. the longer NARC sticks on the longer it would have to endure it. With TAG, the person can avoid TAG beam, and it doesn't have a duration during which the entire time the person is vulnerable to team LRM fire.


i wouldn't mind if NARC had only a minor LRM lock boost. over a long duration maybe 1-2 mins. But calling a timed explosion/off map LRM rain after 40 secs of being on the target.

Edited by Tennex, 06 May 2013 - 08:14 AM.

[Wildstreak]

I think NARC only needs one thing, lock on. It does no damage and has limited range so just let it home in on target, that alone would increase usage and justify tonnage.

[General Taskeen]

Again, the only way to make NARC viable is to make it do, what it is supposed to do.

An auto-seeking tool for SRM's and LRM's. Then it makes sense that ECM is a direct counter to 'turn-off' a beacon. You know, that 'TT' stuff and the 'actual' ECM as well.

Edited by General Taskeen, 06 May 2013 - 08:12 AM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

I still think they should lower the weight of the launcher. Not require a normal hardpoint (I think all electronics/AMS/NARC should just have like 2-3 electronic hardpoints to occupy), and of course, up the ammo and the speed of the NARC missile.

Then make it cut through ECM and throw a 100 damage threshhold and have it last a minute or 2.

Try that out. Could be fun.

[General Taskeen]

Here are two vids, again, showing what two other Mech games did by simulating a closer representation of the 'TT' Narc

(used in conjunction with regular SRM's)

(best example at 9:10, used in conjunction with LRM's)

It was already "made" fun from other games, simply by translating what it did in TT into a real-time game. The NARC in MWO doesn't actually do like 50-75% of its original purpose.

[Jonathan Paine]

I would like to see the following with NARC:
1. No time limit on NARC beacon - it stays on until the limb is blown off, or someone ridiculous amount of damage is done to that location. Perhaps 50 points damage to the location of the NARC beacon.
2. Double the number of shots per ton.
3. ECM cloak nullifies NARC while ECM is on.

[Zyllos]

ECM should counter NARC and ammo per ton does not need to be changed. That should be a sacrifice you take for wanting to utilize a powerful support tool.

Along with this, if NARC lasted at minimum 30s and remove the damage threshold should easily balance it when LRMs are fixed. 2t of NARC ammo lasts 6 minutes if you land every shot. That is plenty powerful enough.

ECM just needs to be balanced in such a way that it's not an automatic must for any variant that can equip it.

[DocBach]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 05 May 2013 - 09:31 PM, said:

until NARC counters ECM itll stay useless.

I think ECM needs to counter Narc if Narc is working by broadcasting a targets location like this patch is suppose to. What should happen is Beagle needs to have its active probe ability, Narc gets its fixed so ECM could be toned down to just protecting against other electronics instead of being a complete missile defeat system and still be useful.

Other IW stuff having strengths and utility = ECM debuffing them a useful strength and utility without stealth/missile kill modes

[Deathlike]

Consider the following link's info:
http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2327569

With that change, a small NARC range boost would be necessary... which surprisingly is the correct course of action.