86 replies to this topic

[Xyre]

When 1 in 3 matches result in nearly instant death by headshot something should be changed...I really want to enjoy the Catapult, but when it is so easy for mechs to instagib it is incredibly hard to enjoy and play...Now, Im sure people will say "Learn to fire and turn your head", I do that, the problem is "IF" I want to fire I have to look at the mech and thats when the instant headshots generally happen. It is incredibly annoying, and not enjoyable to have to consistently be thinking, "Should I turn and shoot, well he is near, if I do it could be over immediately like it is far too often, oh wait this entire time that Im thinking and worrying about looking at my target hes been destroying me, wow that is fun". It doesnt conform to tabletop in any way what-so-ever and it is a consistent waste of time. I want to blow limbs off and "enjoy" fighting as a mech, and this instagib mechanic sucks all the fun out of playing as a mech. Headshots should be rare whether I am in the catapult or any other mech, not 33% of the games I play. If I wanted consistent headshots I would go play Call of Duty or BF 3, atleast in BF 3 you have sway and bullet drop. Please change this, thanks.

Edited by Xyre, 11 May 2013 - 02:52 AM.

[RiceyFighter]

I honestly think the cataphract hitboxes are perfect the way it is. The cataphract are made to be a ranged fire support mech with wide hitboxes in exchange for good hardpoints and lots of weight to work with.

You just going to have to adapt and mitigate your damage. Headshots on cataphracts are very rare, are you torso twisting or just standing still?

Edited by RiceyFighter, 08 May 2013 - 12:53 PM.

[zraven7]

RiceyFighter, on 08 May 2013 - 12:52 PM, said:

I honestly think the cataphract hitboxes are perfect the way it is. The cataphract are made to be a ranged fire support mech with wide hitboxes in exchange for good hardpoints and lots of weight to work with.

You just going to have to adapt and mitigate your damage. Headshots on cataphracts are very rare, are you torso twisting or just standing still?

Um, dude, he's talking about the CataPULT, not the CataPHRACT. The Catapult's cockput hitbox actually IS enormous compared to most mechs.

[Cubivorre]

zraven7, on 08 May 2013 - 01:08 PM, said:

Um, dude, he's talking about the CataPULT, not the CataPHRACT. The Catapult's cockput hitbox actually IS enormous compared to most mechs.

I assumed cataphract as well - He should probably say Catapult instead of Cata if that is what he means or this sort of thing will happen.

On topic: I think both the Catapult AND the Cataphracts head hitboxes are just right.

[Ngamok]

zraven7, on 08 May 2013 - 01:08 PM, said:

Um, dude, he's talking about the CataPULT, not the CataPHRACT. The Catapult's cockput hitbox actually IS enormous compared to most mechs.

JaegerMech as well mostly because of placement. Trick to headshotting a Dragon, aim high, it will most likely hit the head as the shot hits the top of the torso. Also, I have headshot a fair number of Highlanders as well.

[Xyre]

[Responding to deleted content]

Edit:Sorry for the confusion, I am refering to the Catapult.

Edited by Destined, 08 May 2013 - 05:07 PM.
Quote clean up

[Gaan Cathal]

Xyre, on 08 May 2013 - 01:33 PM, said:

Deleted Content

Welcome to the internet.

Now, you've got two issues here:

A: The current meta is for maximum-pinpoint-alpha. Because people are people and they want to win. This is the most effective way to under the current system (which needs changing).
B: The Catapult has, as a balancing factor, a fairly large cockpit, which offsets several of it's strengths. However this makes it rather vulnerable to A currently.

It is, as a result of the above points, easy to think that what needs to happen is for the Catapult's head to shrink. What actually needs to happen is a reduction in instant-pinpoint-alpha viability. Then the Catapult's big fat face will go back to being the balancing factor it should be.

In the meantime, keep your torso swaying, all the time. Just swing the mouse right to left with a bit of a curve. Won't help you against the actually good shots, mind, but the FOTM-train idiots who think they've got major snipor skillz will feed you their tears (and then core you, so get into cover).

[AntiCitizenJuan]

Xyre, on 08 May 2013 - 01:33 PM, said:

[Deleted Content]

The Catapult is an offense oriented, second-line fire-support BattleMech
Cockpit is designed for maximum visibility when spotting targets. It also sports the best torso twist in the game.

Deal with it.

[RiceyFighter]

Xyre, on 08 May 2013 - 12:46 PM, said:

When 1 in 3 matches result in nearly instant death by headshot something should be changed...I really want to enjoy the Catapult, but when it is so easy for mechs to instagib it is incredibly hard to enjoy and play...Now, Im sure people will say "Learn to fire and turn your head", I do that, the problem is "IF" I want to fire I have to look at the mech and thats when the instant headshots generally happen. It is incredibly annoying, and not enjoyable to have to consistently be thinking, "Should I turn and shoot, well he is near, if I do it could be over immediately like it is far too often, oh wait this entire time that Im thinking and worrying about looking at my target hes been destroying me, wow that is fun". It doesnt conform to tabletop in any way what-so-ever and it is a consistent waste of time. I want to blow limbs off and "enjoy" fighting as a mech, and this instagib mechanic sucks all the fun out of playing as a mech. Headshots should be rare whether I am in the catapult or any other mech, not 33% of the games I play. If I wanted consistent headshots I would go play Call of Duty or BF 3, atleast in BF 3 you have sway and bullet drop. Please change this, thanks.

The catapult was designed "CANON" to be a ranged fire support mech. The large hitbox was made because of atheistically, canonically, and balance wise.

Are you playing close range with a catapult? Are you not torso twisting? Are you taking most damage from center torso? Are you running up there alone?

These are questions you should ask yourself because catapults were never designed to be close range, hence the large head hitbox in exchange for long range and jump jet capability.

Note: A1 excludes this because of the SPLAT CATS >.>. Still they are easy to headshot from close range.

TL;DR: I think is just you.

Edited by RiceyFighter, 08 May 2013 - 01:43 PM.

[Gaan Cathal]

RiceyFighter, on 08 May 2013 - 01:42 PM, said:

The catapult was designed "CANON" to be a ranged fire support mech. The large hitbox was made because of atheistically, canonically, and balance wise.
......
These are questions you should ask yourself because catapults were never designed to be close range, hence the large head hitbox in exchange for long range and jump jet capability.

Several canon short-ranged Catapult variants would like a word.

[Moment Killer]

I would like to see a smaller hitbox on the catapult. I get headshots constantly while i'm moving, jump jetting, torso twisting, and all of the above. People headshot me from range without even trying, all the time. C-1 is my go to mech so I'm not going to change that because of this, I can manage. But if it were about 15% smaller, it would be nice.

[Echo6]

I only ever drove a catapult as a trial mech for a while and it seemed like I would get head-shotted an awful lot compared to any other mechs before or since.

The head hitbox needs to be adjusted. (although it does look cool as hell).

On another note, please put this ridiculous cockpit straight onto the MadCat; I would like a lot of MadCat kills, please.

[Xyre]

Gaan Cathal, on 08 May 2013 - 01:40 PM, said:

[/size]

Welcome to the internet.

Now, you've got two issues here:

A: The current meta is for maximum-pinpoint-alpha. Because people are people and they want to win. This is the most effective way to under the current system (which needs changing).
B: The Catapult has, as a balancing factor, a fairly large cockpit, which offsets several of it's strengths. However this makes it rather vulnerable to A currently.

It is, as a result of the above points, easy to think that what needs to happen is for the Catapult's head to shrink. What actually needs to happen is a reduction in instant-pinpoint-alpha viability. Then the Catapult's big fat face will go back to being the balancing factor it should be.

In the meantime, keep your torso swaying, all the time. Just swing the mouse right to left with a bit of a curve. Won't help you against the actually good shots, mind, but the FOTM-train idiots who think they've got major snipor skillz will feed you their tears (and then core you, so get into cover).

I would be fine if headshots "became" viable after a component was destroyed, bringing a mech into some state of headshot exposure. You speak of strengths for the Catapult at the cost of such an easy headshot, lets just do a simple hypothetical on that, compare all the Atlas' strengths then lets put a large red button right in the center of the Atlas that allows for one shots to compensate for its strengths...that would be completely silly, a terrible ridiculous idea, yet for some reason its "fine" for the "Buh bye" and "lrn2play" trolls for it to be like this on the Catapult. If I wanted to play an instant kill headshot game I would not be playing a mechwarrior based game, this mechanic should be changed.

Edited by Xyre, 08 May 2013 - 01:52 PM.

[Gaan Cathal]

Xyre, on 08 May 2013 - 01:50 PM, said:

I would be fine if headshots "became" viable after a component was destroyed, bringing a mech into some state of headshot exposure. You speak of strengths for the Catapult at the cost of such an easy headshot, lets just do a simple hypothetical on that, compare all the Atlas' strengths then lets put a large red button right in the center of the Atlas that allows for one shots to compensate for its strengths...that would be completely silly, a terrible ridiculous idea, yet for some reason its "fine" for the "Buh bye" and "lrn2play" trolls for it to be like this on the Catapult. If I wanted to play an instant kill headshot game I would not be playing a mechwarrior based game, this mechanic should be changed.

The list of weapon setups effectively capable of one-shotting a Catapult whilst still being viable in wider gameplay was until recently fairly small. It takes a full 36 points of damage to remove a cockpit. It really wasn't an issue prior to the advent of the insta-convergence-pinpoint-alpha meta.

[RiceyFighter]

Gaan Cathal, on 08 May 2013 - 01:46 PM, said:

[/size]

Several canon short-ranged Catapult variants would like a word.

We are at the timeline 3049, and all catapult variants are "LONG RANGE"

Short range variants
C2- At dark age area (3132)
K5- at least 3058
H2- After 3068

The only short range mech that fits our timeline is a custom variant that spots 4 SRM6 in a C1.

[Xyre]

RiceyFighter, on 08 May 2013 - 01:42 PM, said:

The catapult was designed "CANON" to be a ranged fire support mech. The large hitbox was made because of atheistically, canonically, and balance wise.

Are you playing close range with a catapult? Are you not torso twisting? Are you taking most damage from center torso? Are you running up there alone?

These are questions you should ask yourself because catapults were never designed to be close range, hence the large head hitbox in exchange for long range and jump jet capability.

Note: A1 excludes this because of the SPLAT CATS >.>. Still they are easy to headshot from close range.

TL;DR: I think is just you.

No I do not play CQ Catapult...avoiding a fight at medium range is near impossible on some of the maps and that is generally when the instagibbing happens, although even at long range I have been sniped.

[Gallowglas]

Gaan Cathal, on 08 May 2013 - 01:40 PM, said:

B: The Catapult has, as a balancing factor, a fairly large cockpit, which offsets several of it's strengths. However this makes it rather vulnerable to A currently.

It is, as a result of the above points, easy to think that what needs to happen is for the Catapult's head to shrink. What actually needs to happen is a reduction in instant-pinpoint-alpha viability. Then the Catapult's big fat face will go back to being the balancing factor it should be.

Except that the devs have said that the head hitbox isn't supposed to be bigger for the Catapult. So, no, it's not supposed to be a balancing factor, nor would I think such a thing would be necessary. It's not like Catapults would suddenly become dominant without it.

I can't find the post where the devs said this, but it was posted a few days ago at most.

Edited by Gallowglas, 08 May 2013 - 01:59 PM.

[RiceyFighter]

Xyre, on 08 May 2013 - 01:57 PM, said:

No I do not play CQ Catapult...avoiding a fight at medium range is near impossible on some of the maps and that is generally when the instagibbing happens, although even at long range I have been sniped.

Well I think is just you then because I ranked #12 in heavy tournament in catapults and during that whole tournament I never been headshotted.

[Gaan Cathal]

RiceyFighter, on 08 May 2013 - 01:56 PM, said:

We are at the timeline 3049, and all catapult variants are "LONG RANGE"

Short range variants
C2- At dark age area (3132)
K5- at least 3058
H2- After 3068

The only short range mech that fits our timeline is a custom variant that spots 4 SRM6 in a C1.

The Butterbee is a completely valid, current, short-ranged Catapult example. And the H2 appears in the Technical Readout: 3050 Upgrade judging by Sarna's citations.

Gallowglas, on 08 May 2013 - 01:58 PM, said:

Except that the devs have said that the head hitbox isn't supposed to be bigger for the Catapult. So, no, it's not supposed to be a balancing factor, nor would I think such a thing would be necessary. It's not like Catapults would suddenly become dominant without it.

I can't find the post where the devs said this, but it was posted a few days ago at most.

I don't necessarily think the Catapult has an inflated cockpit. It's just that a lot of other mechs like the Cataphract and Jaeger have had their cockpit hitboxes significantly reduced because they were popping off right and left. Ergo the Catapult, having not had this modification (to the same extent at least, the cockpit hitbox is not what you see in the mechlab) has a comparatively large cockpit hitbox compared with it's close competitors.

Edited by Gaan Cathal, 08 May 2013 - 02:06 PM.

[Xyre]

RiceyFighter, on 08 May 2013 - 01:56 PM, said:

We are at the timeline 3049, and all catapult variants are "LONG RANGE"

Short range variants
C2- At dark age area (3132)
K5- at least 3058
H2- After 3068

The only short range mech that fits our timeline is a custom variant that spots 4 SRM6 in a C1.

I have the CPLT-C4 and run the 4xSRM6 at times, it is the only one I actively try to use as a hit and run catapult. This doesnt stop the headshots and I would be far better off running a light or medium than trying to use the Catapult as a CQ mech because of its easy headshot "you win button" potential. I generally use the K2 for long to medium range support however it is easy at medium range for mechs to headshot the Catapult, it just should not be happening as often as it does...

Edited by Xyre, 08 May 2013 - 02:06 PM.