105 replies to this topic

[Seanamal]

Davers, on 06 May 2013 - 03:35 PM, said:

But wasn't that supposed to be AMS's job (after all the other counters of speed and positioning). Remember when the Atlas K was considered viable because it had 2 AMS slots? This game would be much better if there wasn't such a bucketload of useless equipment.

Yes and No. AMS was supposed to reduce missile damage not disrupt it's use. And frankly even if your entire team had AMS and stayed tightly grouped, enough LRM boats on the other team would still decimate you.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Seanamal, on 06 May 2013 - 03:39 PM, said:

Yes and No. AMS was supposed to reduce missile damage not disrupt it's use. And frankly even if your entire team had AMS and stayed tightly grouped, enough LRM boats on the other team would still decimate you.

Once again, that is wrong.

A team full of AMS that doesn't stupidly stand in the open would totally destroy an LRM team.

They'd run out of ammo trying to kill you.

[Davers]

Seanamal, on 06 May 2013 - 03:39 PM, said:

Yes and No. AMS was supposed to reduce missile damage not disrupt it's use. And frankly even if your entire team had AMS and stayed tightly grouped, enough LRM boats on the other team would still decimate you.

AMS could have been made better. But LRMs shouldn't be completely negated anyway. Reflective Armor reduces energy damage, not makes you immune to it.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

The problem is Sean, when you talk about LRM's, you speak like the people fighting the LRM boat are out in the open and just stand around waiting for the missiles to hit.

That does not happen against good players.

[Capt Sternn]

well I gotta say I like this. Now ECM provides cover for you to get close to the enemy but once you are there you actually have to fight them, not Streak them to death while they can't fight back. Time to dust off my Jenner. Coming for you Raven, coming for you.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Capt Sternn, on 06 May 2013 - 03:44 PM, said:

well I gotta say I like this. Now ECM provides cover for you to get close to the enemy but once you are there you actually have to fight them, not Streak them to death while they can't fight back. Time to dust off my Jenner. Coming for you Raven, coming for you.

I am hoping that Jenner's overtake Raven's as the popular light. Highlanders have already taken over for the DC.

ECM could be extinct about a week after this patch. It will be glorious.

[Davers]

I would rather them gave everyone ECM so at least there would be a 'tug of war' between which team could bring the most ECM into a fight, then giving every mech an 'ECM off' switch. I anticipate a lot more SSRMs being used across the board, meaning once again it will get worse for light and medium mechs.

I can see the new ad compaign now: Mechwarrior Online: Go Big Or Go Home!

[Capt Sternn]

Oh ECM won't be extinct, but you will work in a Group, say a Commando with Ecm, and a Jenner and spider both with BAP. Killer little group. The Raven will still be a good mech, it Just won't let it and the 2d Commando **** the other scouts anymore, plus with their ECM turned off every LRM mech out there is going to be looking for a little PAYBACK.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Capt Sternn, on 06 May 2013 - 03:49 PM, said:

Oh ECM won't be extinct, but you will work in a Group, say a Commando with Ecm, and a Jenner and spider both with BAP. Killer little group. The Raven will still be a good mech, it Just won't let it and the 2d Commando **** the other scouts anymore, plus with their ECM turned off every LRM mech out there is going to be looking for a little PAYBACK.

People still play really bad mechs, it happens.

But honestly, if ECM is not a factor, anyone who pilots a light should be in a Jenner.

The rest are just going to under perform.

[wolf74]

Group of COM-2d w/ECM & BAP anyone? "Who you going to call Light mech busters!"

[Seanamal]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 06 May 2013 - 03:43 PM, said:

The problem is Sean, when you talk about LRM's, you speak like the people fighting the LRM boat are out in the open and just stand around waiting for the missiles to hit.

That does not happen against good players.

Depends on the map. Not a whole lot of cover on caustic or alpine to protect you from barrage attacks. I concur with you on many maps your team has to make dumb decisions to put themselves in a position for massed LRM fire to be so lethal. But some maps make such tactics much harder to counter. Also think about this: Clan tech LRMs are basically going to be super oversized streaks. I expect several more bouts of ECM / ECM-counter rejiggering and rebalacning. Until the BETA tag drops off the end of mechwarrior online, it's going to be a lot of re-balancing.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

I do not understand the Commando infatuation.

Come BAP change, Jenner with BAP meets Commando with BAP/ECM, cancels ECM, blows up commando.

Done.

Seanamal, on 06 May 2013 - 03:56 PM, said:

Depends on the map. Not a whole lot of cover on caustic or alpine to protect you from barrage attacks. I concur with you on many maps your team has to make dumb decisions to put themselves in a position for massed LRM fire to be so lethal. But some maps make such tactics much harder to counter. Also think about this: Clan tech LRMs are basically going to be super oversized streaks. I expect several more bouts of ECM / ECM-counter rejiggering and rebalacning. Until the BETA tag drops off the end of mechwarrior online, it's going to be a lot of re-balancing.

Do you play an LRM mech? EVERY map sucks for LRM's. They are slow.

Caustic is a giant mountain in the middle, as long as you are hugging it, you avoid LRM fire.

Alpine has a ton of spots to dodge LRM's.

YES if you get stuck in a stupid spot, you can get killed by LRM's. But that due to your own mistakes. And you'd die to PPC's and Gauss Rifles in the same exact way if you found that stupid spot. And faster no less.

[Capt Sternn]

I do miss my Jenner, I may have to Hide my 2d, I believe there are people out there with a hate-on for it.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Capt Sternn, on 06 May 2013 - 03:58 PM, said:

I do miss my Jenner, I may have to Hide my 2d, I believe there are people out there with a hate-on for it.

Once every light mech is able to use Streak's, the Jenner comes out on top. A Raven with a little luck could beat a Jenner.

But Spiders and Commando's are going to have a very hard time.

If Streak's start working again, guess what? Highlander's can carry 3 of them. 3 volley's and the Spider is dead; no aiming necessary. And then he can still sport an AC/20 and 2 PPC's along with the Streaks.

That is why this poor state of IW/EW and Scouting is bad. Light mechs shouldn't have been frontline fighting mechs, but that's what we expect from them now.

Edited by Nicholas Carlyle, 06 May 2013 - 04:02 PM.

[Capt Sternn]

Hmmmm Streaks and Silver bullets for my Ultra Ac 5s, oh wait . . . . that's crazy talk. Don't go out on the moors at night. Stay on the road. Oh my GOD it's after me!!!! AHHHHHGGGGJHHRRR. gurgle gurgle.

[Gamgee]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 06 May 2013 - 03:58 PM, said:

I do not understand the Commando infatuation.

Come BAP change, Jenner with BAP meets Commando with BAP/ECM, cancels ECM, blows up commando.

Done.



Do you play an LRM mech? EVERY map sucks for LRM's. They are slow.

Caustic is a giant mountain in the middle, as long as you are hugging it, you avoid LRM fire.

Alpine has a ton of spots to dodge LRM's.

YES if you get stuck in a stupid spot, you can get killed by LRM's. But that due to your own mistakes. And you'd die to PPC's and Gauss Rifles in the same exact way if you found that stupid spot. And faster no less.

I can do that now, BAP just lets me kick dirt on his face. Hahahah.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Gamgee, on 06 May 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:

I can do that now, BAP just lets me kick dirt on his face. Hahahah.

Yeah I know it's doable now.

It's just once BAP comes in, even people with no skill can stomp Commando's and Spider's.

People who play them are purposely being masochistic.

[Seanamal]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 06 May 2013 - 03:58 PM, said:

Do you play an LRM mech? EVERY map sucks for LRM's. They are slow.

Actually, Yes I do. I've got a tweaked cat build I use sometimes and a near stock Treb 3c that is awesome to play on the wide open maps like caustic and alpine. The issue with LRMs is they now require actual teamwork to use effectively. TAG equipped scout/spotter moves into range and lights up a target. Call for fire from lancemates. Feedbacks target impact info: "good hits!" "negative impact." Iv're played as the launch platform and as the spotter. Both can be fun and rewarding.

Edited by Seanamal, 06 May 2013 - 04:08 PM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Seanamal, on 06 May 2013 - 04:07 PM, said:

Actually, Yes I do. I've got a tweaked cat build I use sometimes and a near stock Treb 3c that is awesome to play on the wide open maps like caustic and alpine. The issue with LRMs is they now require actual teamwork to use effectively. TAG equipped scout/spotter moves into range and lights up a target. Call for fire from lancemates. Feedbacks target impact info: "good hits!" "negative impact." Iv're played as the launch platform and as the spotter. Both can be fun and rewarding.

Oh god, the teamwork defense.

What if the other team uses teamwork too?

LRM's are bad, they are purposely hotfixed to be bad.

Neither Alpine nor Caustic are "Wide open". There are spots where due to bad planning you can get stuck in the open. But that is not the same thing.

Alpine has a ton of little hills to lose target lock, or just plain have missiles crash into.

[El Bandito]

AntharPrime, on 06 May 2013 - 01:36 PM, said:

I missed this update thanks to the new Forum format. I'm not sure how I feel about this, I've been fighting against ECM for so long that it almost feels strange. The Streak Cat will make a comeback.

A1 is obsolete. Stalkers with Quad PPC and Quad SSRM2s (Penta SSRM2s if you are 5M) will rule the battlefield. Nothing can come close.

LRMs will not benefit from BAP in anyway against ECM. BAP will not counter ECM at long range. Due to LRM minimum range, there is no reason to try to get into 150 meters to cancel out ECM with BAP as LRM carrier.

Edited by El Bandito, 06 May 2013 - 04:17 PM.