86 replies to this topic

[Kitane]

John MatriX82, on 09 May 2013 - 01:33 AM, said:

The catapult is a powerful chassis and it's the best to house XL engines among any other mech in game.

Therefore it must have a weakness, and that is the big cockpit. When BAP will counter ECM we'll see streakcats getting back in rage, when the SRMs will be fixed we'll see srmcats everywhere and AC20 pults and gausspults are still around and kicking. Imho, leave the cockpit as it is now.

And if anyone wonders, I have 3 variants of them..

A Catapult's great disadvantage, a massive bullet catching CT, that prevents most of effective damage distribution across multiple parts, is actually an advantage and it should be balanced by another disadvantage , a huge cockpit.

Did I get that right?

Edited by Kitane, 09 May 2013 - 02:43 AM.

[Sam Slade]

Gaan Cathal, on 08 May 2013 - 01:55 PM, said:

. It takes a full 36 points of damage to remove a cockpit.

33... 2x PPC and a Gauss is great anti-cat

[Livewyr]

The catapult used to be the best heavy... that was before

Maneuverability Nerfs
JagerMech
and Missile Nerf...

Now the only reason to drive the catapult is that you have to.. fix the damned head hitbox. (And don't give me the "visual" guidelines: Cataphract has a basketball for a cockput, but only a frontal shot to the center window counts...)

[Joseph Mallan]

zraven7, on 08 May 2013 - 01:08 PM, said:

Um, dude, he's talking about the CataPULT, not the CataPHRACT. The Catapult's cockput hitbox actually IS enormous compared to most mechs.

Well part of that is that the head hit box is basically center mass of the torso, so hitting it is made easier. Timber Wolf will likely have the same problem/Advantage depending on which side of my weapons it is!

[Krzysztof z Bagien]

As it was mentioned before: Bryan Ekman said in the last ATD that Cat's* head hitbox is similar to other mechs. It is not true, but I think it means that hitbox size is not supposed to be a balancing factor.
Phract* head hitbox is only a fracture of one of its glass panes, it's almost impossible to headshot it. Cat head hitbox looks like this. You can easily hit it even from the side.
I don't think Cat's head should be smaller, but rather most mechs should have their head hitboxes enlarged.

Oh, and stop talking about "canon" here. It's irrelevant. First, this game is not canon, second, it's nice to stick to it where it can be done, but it can't come before gameplay and balance (double armour anyone?). And I belive in TT games probability of hitting a head was equal for every mech. Not like it matters here, but that would make your argument invalid.
____
*Cat = Catapult, Phract = Cataphract

[EvilCow]

The huge CT is a sufficient disadvantage, right now you aim to the head and if you fail you hit the huge CT for sure. Head is like an easy to obtain bonus.

[Mangonel Jorgensson]

i saw the video one of the members posted the other day of the Catapults head-shot area and it was really ridiculous. I get that it has a large cockpit screen, but the video showed how large the cockpit hit box actually is and how silly easy it is to cockpit that mech....IN NO WAY IS IT SIMILAR TO OTHER MECHS! it is disproportionately freaking ginormous!


i wish i could find the post again because it very clearly demonstrated how borked the catapults cockpit hit box is...

found the video:



compare this to all the other mechs, not even close. devs did this on purpose to gimp it because people were crying so much about getting beat down by these things in brawls. not a good reason to alter the chassis to such a drastic degree. instead of demanding the players get better they horrifically nerfed a chassis to appease a vocal minority of whiners.

needs to be fixed plain and simple, bring it in-line with other mechs.

Edited by WM Mangonel, 09 May 2013 - 04:17 AM.

[RG Notch]

Xyre, on 08 May 2013 - 07:33 PM, said:

The fact your posts have been modded and removed should be enough. Now you are trolling by saying I stated that this community "doesnt deserve me"? Please stop trolling or leave the thread. Thanks.

I go where I please. I post as I please, if the mods decide to remove posts or edit that's up to them, not you. I'm not trolling, I'm simply telling what the status of the Catapult head box is and will likely continue to be. If you believe me to be a troll just report me like you did before or stop feeding me. What exactly are you adding by continue to engage me if you believe me to be a troll? Your request was answered by several people, if you don't like the answer stop asking it. That's productive advice.

[John MatriX82]

Kitane, on 09 May 2013 - 02:43 AM, said:

A Catapult's great disadvantage, a massive bullet catching CT, that prevents most of effective damage distribution across multiple parts, is actually an advantage and it should be balanced by another disadvantage , a huge cockpit.

Did I get that right?

Any mech has an easy to hit CT.. And yes, catapults needs this further disadvantage, again, you can house loadouts unknown to many other (even heavier) mechs and XL's are for free.

The only thing I may accomodate is to take away the side head hitbox wings, but the front part must stay like it is now.

Edited by John MatriX82, 09 May 2013 - 04:16 AM.

[Caustic Canid]

OP, the simple answer is you're doing it wrong... here, taken from the Catapult Owners manual...

"Congratulations on the purchase of your brand new Catapult! Here we will be giving you basic instructions on how to successfully pilot your new mech!

Step 1: Turn your mech around and walk backwards towards your enemy, make sure to shake your torso around as violently as possible to ensure maximum cockpit protection. It should look like a 60 ton epileptic seizure. If it doesn't, increase your control sensitivity.

Step 2: Stop no less than 1000m from your target. The catapult is a SUPPORT mech, so getting any closer is not advised. After taking a moment to get over the motion sickness brought on by step one, use your mechs amazing 360 degree torso twist ability to begin spinning your torso like a helicopter blade.

Step 3: DO NOT pause to target your enemy. Looking directly at them is not advised under any circumstances, as the optics in the Catapult's cockpit are very sensitive and will explode. Killing you. Alpha strike all of your superior Hardpoints only when you think your aiming reticule is mostly/sort-of/kind-of near them.

Step 4: Pray. Non-denominational prayer book is included in Catapult Glove box. Use at your discretion.

At the end of each battle you should feel dizzy (this is normal) and have done somewhere between 0-3 damage to the enemy.

Congratulations! You have successfully piloted the Catapult as it was intended!"

[Krzysztof z Bagien]

Oh, one more thing, a question to everyone saying Cat is long range fire support and should have its head as big as possible:
how come the Jager had its head hitbox reduced? It's supposed to be long range fire support and AA mech, so its head should be even bigger than Cat's.

[Glythe]

The CTF head hitbox is far too small.....

And while I agree the CAT head hitbox is large you must remember it is intended as a support mech. This limitation is one of its balancing features.

[Onmyoudo]

The Catapult's cockpit is a bit too big. Despite this, and perhaps my Elo isn't high enough, I rarely find myself being headshotted. Perhaps this depends on the build you are running? I find LRM boats and Gausscats tend to stand still while firing, whereas my 4 PPC Cat is always on the move. I remember trying and failing to get headshots against Splatcats when they were prevalent because consistently hitting that target at 86km/h is difficult for anyone.

[Gallowglas]

John MatriX82, on 09 May 2013 - 01:33 AM, said:

The catapult is a powerful chassis and it's the best to house XL engines among any other mech in game.

Therefore it must have a weakness, and that is the big cockpit. When BAP will counter ECM we'll see streakcats getting back in rage, when the SRMs will be fixed we'll see srmcats everywhere and AC20 pults and gausspults are still around and kicking. Imho, leave the cockpit as it is now.

And if anyone wonders, I have 3 variants of them..

I'd respectfully but vehemently disagree. Personally, I used to play Catapults a lot. I haven't been playing them at all for months for the simple reason that they're ridiculously easy to headshot. On most mechs I don't bother trying for headshots because they're rather difficult to get and because it's generally better to fish for XL or CT hits. On the Catapult, I go for it every single time and my number of 1-2 volley kills on them BECAUSE of the large head hitbox is noticeably skewed.

I love the chassis, but it's simply not powerful enough to call for such a huge offsetting penalty, particularly now that the A1 is less powerful than it once was due to SRM nerfs and since the Cataphract is a more compelling dual-gauss platform.

[Xyre]

Gallowglas, on 09 May 2013 - 07:47 AM, said:

I'd respectfully but vehemently disagree. Personally, I used to play Catapults a lot. I haven't been playing them at all for months for the simple reason that they're ridiculously easy to headshot. On most mechs I don't bother trying for headshots because they're rather difficult to get and because it's generally better to fish for XL or CT hits. On the Catapult, I go for it every single time and my number of 1-2 volley kills on them BECAUSE of the large head hitbox is noticeably skewed.

I love the chassis, but it's simply not powerful enough to call for such a huge offsetting penalty, particularly now that the A1 is less powerful than it once was due to SRM nerfs and since the Cataphract is a more compelling dual-gauss platform.

^ This, there are other heavies whose long range support are as good as the Catapult, yet they do not have a large "You win button" right in the middle of their mech...Speed or torso twist hardly makes up for such a large disadvantage. I run into two situations most of the time when I get headshot, either the other mech didnt realize they could hit my cockpit so easily and luckily headshot me or the other mech player is good and knows where to hit the Catapult for an easy kill. Its the combination of the two that makes it happen so often, people accidentally do it often while just trying to get a torso shot and people who know where to shoot aim there intentionally, result is a dead Catapult happening far too often...Overall I am just not a fan of easy instakills in a mechwarrior game, I would not mind "IF" headshots became viable after a component was destroyed...but not before or make all cockpit sizes equal.

Thanks to all of you who gave constructive feedback and were civil in this thread, I appreciate it.

[Xyre]

Caustic Canid, on 09 May 2013 - 04:16 AM, said:

OP, the simple answer is you're doing it wrong... here, taken from the Catapult Owners manual...

"Congratulations on the purchase of your brand new Catapult! Here we will be giving you basic instructions on how to successfully pilot your new mech!

Step 1: Turn your mech around and walk backwards towards your enemy, make sure to shake your torso around as violently as possible to ensure maximum cockpit protection. It should look like a 60 ton epileptic seizure. If it doesn't, increase your control sensitivity.

Step 2: Stop no less than 1000m from your target. The catapult is a SUPPORT mech, so getting any closer is not advised. After taking a moment to get over the motion sickness brought on by step one, use your mechs amazing 360 degree torso twist ability to begin spinning your torso like a helicopter blade.

Step 3: DO NOT pause to target your enemy. Looking directly at them is not advised under any circumstances, as the optics in the Catapult's cockpit are very sensitive and will explode. Killing you. Alpha strike all of your superior Hardpoints only when you think your aiming reticule is mostly/sort-of/kind-of near them.

Step 4: Pray. Non-denominational prayer book is included in Catapult Glove box. Use at your discretion.

At the end of each battle you should feel dizzy (this is normal) and have done somewhere between 0-3 damage to the enemy.

Congratulations! You have successfully piloted the Catapult as it was intended!"

lol

[John MatriX82]

Gallowglas, on 09 May 2013 - 07:47 AM, said:

I'd respectfully but vehemently disagree. Personally, I used to play Catapults a lot. I haven't been playing them at all for months for the simple reason that they're ridiculously easy to headshot. On most mechs I don't bother trying for headshots because they're rather difficult to get and because it's generally better to fish for XL or CT hits. On the Catapult, I go for it every single time and my number of 1-2 volley kills on them BECAUSE of the large head hitbox is noticeably skewed.

I love the chassis, but it's simply not powerful enough to call for such a huge offsetting penalty, particularly now that the A1 is less powerful than it once was due to SRM nerfs and since the Cataphract is a more compelling dual-gauss platform.

And again, I may agree to reduce the sides of the head hitbox as others have suggested, but what's in the front must stay as it is now.

The chassis is less viable at the moment. To be honest, anything that isn't a Stalker or an Highlander isn't viable. Once lrms, srms and ssrms will be properly tuned, we'll have to deal with this chassis again.

Sorry, but when the anti-ECM BAP will come out, this is the only mech that can sport 12 always-hitting-the-ct missiles, all I said will be more than right.

[Gallowglas]

John MatriX82, on 09 May 2013 - 11:33 AM, said:

And again, I may agree to reduce the sides of the head hitbox as others have suggested, but what's in the front must stay as it is now.

Must? Why must? It sounds like the word you meant to use is prefer. Can you give me a compelling reason why making the front head hitbox comparable to other mechs would somehow skew the Catapult's effectiveness? The ability to easily one-shot a mech isn't a balance point. It's an annoyance.

John MatriX82, on 09 May 2013 - 11:33 AM, said:

The chassis is less viable at the moment. To be honest, anything that isn't a Stalker or an Highlander isn't viable. Once lrms, srms and ssrms will be properly tuned, we'll have to deal with this chassis again.

Except that LRM's and SRM's won't be in the same untuned state they were when the A1 was wrecking people. Will it still be a powerful chassis? Sure, but there are plenty of those that don't have this weakness. And, frankly, I think your statement about Stalkers and Highlanders is inaccurate. Yes, poptarts and PPC Stalkers can wreck your day and perhaps there needs to be some meta-game adjustment to help out there, but saying those are the only viable chassis simply isn't true.

Edited by Gallowglas, 09 May 2013 - 11:41 AM.

[John MatriX82]

With the current meta they are virtually the only useful chassis, at least you can deal the damage you can intake.

And as I said I like catapults and I own 3 of them. So there's no "preference". It's a powerful mech, much more powerful/sturdier than for example a jager (which I scrapped from my list).

[Xyre]

I added a poll out of curiosity, Thanks to anyone who posts their opinion!

Edited by Xyre, 09 May 2013 - 12:40 PM.