67 replies to this topic

[Fergle Fergleson]

fatcat01, on 06 June 2012 - 11:45 AM, said:

If you want a good in-game example just check out the light 'mech breakdown video in the media section.

Fatcat01 scooped me with this comment, but this is exactly what I would suggest you do. Check out the light mech video. It's show some excellent examples of JJs in action.

[Major Bill Curtis]

Ratzap, on 06 June 2012 - 02:53 AM, said:

A lot of this seems to stem from Mechwarrior games, I would disagree with that person saying TT valued them. On lights they let you keep a high mod on whilest getting close but conversely also made it harder to hit someone. Clearing bad terrain? Yeah sure for lighter mechs again but a JJ value of 3 isn't going to do you much good with cliffs and such.
That is the crux of the matter, using JJ in MW games had no impact on accuracy since that all came from the player. TT made using JJ less attractive since your to-hit went in the bin (+3).

I'd rather use run speed to get in the back of an opponent, torso twist means facing their back is irrelevant and if I want melee I sure as hell won't risk a kick (a light falling behind someone is a dead light) - punch has no pilot roll and can hit head.

You've never fought in a jungle on TT, or in river country.

errorabbit, on 06 June 2012 - 03:39 AM, said:

To translate that to the game 1:1, it should
a) really rock your window while jetting, as opposed to make you hover like a little feather and give you BETTER aim
act fast... the whole thing should really fire you around (this would also make it harder to hit you in the air, which would be another point: in TT you can't get hit better while jumping, although thinking about it, that is probably unrealistic, unless it really does look like a jump and you can maneuver in the air)
c) be difficult
d) make you turn speed in the air faster than on the ground

Excellent list!

Edited by Major Bill Curtis, 06 June 2012 - 02:35 PM.

[Ishtar]

honestly I would love to see hover glide for the light mechs, since its the only releastic thing to see in this universe technology.. well for that type of mech

Edited by Ishtar, 06 June 2012 - 02:36 PM.

[McTrolls]

scouting my friend

[Redbear6]

It is quite simple. Man has forever envied the bird. And they have now realized that, with the proper application of force, they too can fly.

[Orion Pirate]

Bob Random, on 06 June 2012 - 12:44 AM, said:

As the title implies, I would like to understand the obsession that a lot of players have with Jump Jets.

I have played MechWarrior 1-4 and I am an avid FPS player in other games but I am struggling to grasp the focus that is being put on Jump Jets being so powerful.

The first thing I do when I buy a mech is remove the Jump Jets to free up some weight for armor/weapons/heatsinks (i.e. something useful).

Please could someone impart, in a constructive fashion, what I am missing.

Thank you.

Same fascination as with Melee weapons. The amount of damage involved outweighs the risk involved for some players.

DFA I assume is going to make some people feel like they are getting to teabag their opponent... This and Melee weapons in a FPS video game will always be of great importance to those that have a single mind of griefing or owning other players with their leet skillz. Or at least that is my take on it.

We could get into the fictional reality of it and when/how it should be used, but then I would get yelled at for trying to be too realistic. In the end, people will love it, getting to jump on someone's head is a very great reward for those that do it.

[Saxophonist]

The point of Jump Jets is maneuverability. They let you get to high ground quickly, which could save your life in a tight spot.

[Banshee Bullet]

I've never been a fan of jump jets. It may be useful for terrain in mwo but it hasn't been a huge deal imo in previous mechwarrior games. I do like it when people use them to poptart tho, that's fun. It's like shooting clay pigeons or something. They don't move fast enough vertically to be hard to hit and as soon as they're in the air their movement is easily predictable.

They may be helpful getting around rough terrain or to advantageous positions otherwise unreachable in mwo though.

[Dreden Aelnir]

MW 1-4 were poor translations of the great tabletop games. Jump jets allowed you to bypass a LOT of crap terrain and get behind mechs that easily outgunned/outarmored you and chew through weak rear armor. That, in the video games, was poorly coded. So much so that whenever anybody tried it I just thought to myself "pull" and shot skeet.

[SilverWolf]

Death from above

[Murdock Kell]

The one thing I'm kinda disappointed about with the jump jets in the mechwarrior world in general, as none of them are for fast, lateral mobility like in other mecha games, that being said, any extra mobility (EXTREMELY USEFUL for the light and medium mechs!) is always a tactical advantage.

Edited by Murdock Kell, 06 June 2012 - 04:05 PM.

[Solis Obscuri]

Dreden Aelnir, on 06 June 2012 - 02:57 PM, said:

MW 1-4 were poor translations of the great tabletop games. Jump jets allowed you to bypass a LOT of crap terrain and get behind mechs that easily outgunned/outarmored you and chew through weak rear armor. That, in the video games, was poorly coded. So much so that whenever anybody tried it I just thought to myself "pull" and shot skeet.

MW2 made jumpjets pretty badass. You could cover a lot of ground quickly, particularly on low-gravity worlds, change facings in midair, and use them laterally to dodge incoming fire and stay in the blind spot of assault 'mechs. I had a Warhammer IIC config with Jump jets that I absolutely loved, and I used to have a blast coring Kodiaks through their rear armor in GBL. I think the attempts to nerf them a bit in subsequent games went overboard, though.

[trycksh0t]

Jump Jets = better mobility, less predictable movement, missile avoidance, but most importantly, the ability to jump BEHIND your target and rip their rear armor to shreds. The only thing more dangerous to an Atlas than a headshot is a speedier 'Mech in it's rear arc.

Edited by trycksh0t, 06 June 2012 - 06:34 PM.

[Athena Hart]

As many have listed..

1: The main draw is DFA (Death From Above). Nothing like a Heavy or Assault closing range with you then arcing into the air and plummeting on top of you.

2: Mobility. As mentioned above by others it enables you to circumvent certain types of terrain, to escape, gain a better vantage point or to hop over an opponent to quickly get behind them.

3: I can't resist.... Jump Jets are cool..... JK, I always prefered the charge.

[Maxiom]

didn't have time to read full thread but JJ's are also useful at limiting damage when jumping down from something.... frigging legs LOL

[Xandre Blackheart]

It's hard to tell yet whether jump jets will be worth the weight (and HEAT). So many variables. Terrain types. If there are urban maps then yes. Never go into the city without Jump jets. Swamps, rough terrain, things that slow your movement to a crawl or even stop it like a sheer cliff? Again JJ are very useful.

But if they don't implement those types of terrain then JJ will lose a lot of their utility. At that point they become jink tools, and unless your opponent has an underpowered machine and/or a crappy connection, you'd have been better off with extra armor or weapons or heat sinks.

Since DFA (Death From Above) very often turns into (Falling From Above) or FBRFA (Fiery Bits Raining From Above) it should only be used as a desperation or surprise move. With better armor or more speed or firepower you are more likely to avoid those types of situations, if terrain effects are something to be ignored. By the same token, If terrain has a real effect, then nothing helps you avoid a desperate situation like being able to suddenly use the terrain to your advantage, and that is exactly the benefit JJ are supposed to give.

I guess the final analysis is that much of the game play will be determined by the maps. This follows the military axiom that terrain dictates the course of battle. So many promising games have been rendered lackluster by poorly designed maps. I hope they pay as much attention to the terrain as they do to the mechs, because in a military sim, terrain is a critical factor. If we get realistic (and engaging) modeling of terrain then there will be areas where jump jets will absolutely determine the outcome of battle. If not, then they are so much dead weight.

Edited by Xandre Blackheart, 06 June 2012 - 07:24 PM.

[Tterrag]

What can I say we are a people fascinated by things that appear to have a use but end up bring useless but we still use them well yall might I plan to dump them for more armor our speed maybe another gun out two but yeah if you think excessive wheel size our a loud radio make you more of a man then yeah jump jets are for you imo anyway

[PANZERBUNNY]

Tterrag, on 06 June 2012 - 07:30 PM, said:

What can I say we are a people fascinated by things that appear to have a use but end up bring useless but we still use them well yall might I plan to dump them for more armor our speed maybe another gun out two but yeah if you think excessive wheel size our a loud radio make you more of a man then yeah jump jets are for you imo anyway

Can someone translate this? Is this against JJ's?

[Paewen]

Infine, on 06 June 2012 - 01:10 AM, said:

It's because in those games terrain was quite meh. Still, JJs were useful for poptarting.

MWO looks like it will actually have terrain, and JJs will allow for said terrain abuse.

This shouldn't be a problem in MWO. Remember the concept of convergence. Your weapons will be set to converge at your current aim point. If standing behind a hill say that point is 15meters. When you pop up, your target is going to be say 300 meters away. With convergence at the wrong point, you will miss every time. The devs use of convergence will ensure poptarters aren't successful. It will also make it tough to kill the fools that try and poptart.

[wanderer]

Dreden Aelnir, on 06 June 2012 - 02:57 PM, said:

MW 1-4 were poor translations of the great tabletop games. Jump jets allowed you to bypass a LOT of crap terrain and get behind mechs that easily outgunned/outarmored you and chew through weak rear armor. That, in the video games, was poorly coded. So much so that whenever anybody tried it I just thought to myself "pull" and shot skeet.

Thanks to a bug in the coding on MW1, you could fire the jump jets endlessly.

This meant a 'Mech could literally fly across entire maps, letting you bypass NPC opponents without them going active, then land on a base and trash it without a shot being fired your way.

This, incidentally was how House Davion got whupped down to a single planet in the GEnie multiplayer game at one point, before we nice Capellans explained what was going on to the devs.