27 replies to this topic

[El Bandito]

Lasers can eat through armor with ease, yet they just plain suck at finishing off a wounded mech. Equipment critical padding is very effective against it. BAP and DHS in my CT, DHS in my arms, JJs in my legs... Brawler mechs will have plenty of time to get close to laser boats and then proceed to pummel them.

That perfectly healthy Stalker shoulda packed PPCs--poor guy would have lived then. It took a Gauss slug to finally put me out of my misery.

Edited by El Bandito, 09 May 2013 - 04:07 AM.

[Appogee]

I only recently realised this was true.

I wondered why the 4LL Stalker I experimented with wasn't getting any kills... lots of damage, but not many kills.

Worse, because the intensely damaged enemy mechs weren't dying when they were ''supposed to'', the ballistics-packing Jagermechs and missile-spamming Catapults were killing me.

Is this ''flaw'' in lasers by design? Does it relate to canon in some way?

I decided it was a very limiting factor in their use. PPCs are far superior in the end.

[El Bandito]

Appogee, on 09 May 2013 - 02:07 AM, said:

I only recently realised this was true. I wondered why the 4LL Stalker I experimented with wasn't getting any kills... lots of damage, but not many kills. Worse, because the intensely damaged enemy mechs weren't dying when they were ''supposed to'', the ballistics-packing Jagermechs and missile-spamming Catapults were killing me. Is this ''flaw'' in lasers by design? Does it relate to canon in some way? I decided it was a very limiting factor in their use. PPCs are far superior in the end.

It is flaw by design. PGI is not going to change it so better dump those Large lasers and grab PPCs if you want kills. To quote my video:

Lasers, by their mechanics are definitely worse than guaranteed 10 PPC damage at optimal distance. Especially after you strip the enemy of their armor. Lasers will just spread its **** all over the criticals while doing fraction of damage to them each.

My armorless legs have 2 JJs each. So the Stalker's Large Laser, by design, have big chance to hit both JJs and my leg internals but doing so will divide that 9 damage to the three locations--something like 2/4/3 damage each--even when I am standing still. Consequently it takes 2 or 3 times more hits with lasers to destroy something a PPC can do with one shot. Incidentally both PPC damage and critical item HP are 10 so even if one PPC missed my internals and hit my JJ, it will destroy it instantly, unlike stupid lasers.

If that Stalker had PPCs he could have killed me way sooner with my big exposed CT.

Edited by El Bandito, 09 May 2013 - 02:32 AM.

[MustrumRidcully]

I wouldn't overvalue the importance of crits. But it's true, lasers, missiles, LBX and continuous fire weapons like MGs and Flamers are by default bad for critting. (They needed to buff the MG critical damage by a factor of 12.5 to make its crit ability noticeable. for crying out loud!)

[zorak ramone]

Its easy to predict what will happen if they nerf PPCs.

Back when PPCs were 10 or 9 heat, the dominant weapons were the GR, UAC5, and SRM6, with the AC5, LL, ML, and LRM serving as second tier weapons.

If we raise PPC heat again, we're back to where we started ... only now missiles are nerfed, so the top tier of weapons will include only the GR and UAC5, wit the AC5, LL and ML serving as backups.

[Zoccola]

Depends how the fix PPCs.

If they fix convergence: the battles will get a lot longer. Mechs will take a lot more damage to kill (because people wont be able to pinpoint 6 hardpoints to the same 2cmx2cm spot.) Lasers will regain value based on hps + dps + sustainability of no ammo.

If they nerf PPCs by way of a heat increase: the UAC5, AC10, and Gaus will be king.

If they buff missiles again without fixing LRMs, then srms and lasers will be further devalued. Games will be assaults boating lrms, gaus and ppcs. Until everyone wise up, and then it will be a light fest, with the streak cat being king.

[Thorqemada]

Lasers are bad finishers bcs they apply their damage in many but ridiculous tiny increments - the Laser is a DOT weapon and i dont know a single DOT weapon that is a good finisher in no MMO.

[Deathlike]

It's easier to mix a PPC or two when you already have a bunch of lasers...

[Roland]

El Bandito, on 09 May 2013 - 02:08 AM, said:

It is flaw by design. PGI is not going to change it so better dump those Large lasers and grab PPCs if you want kills. To quote my video:

Lasers, by their mechanics are definitely worse than guaranteed 10 PPC damage at optimal distance. Especially after you strip the enemy of their armor. Lasers will just spread its **** all over the criticals while doing fraction of damage to them each.

My armorless legs have 2 JJs each. So the Stalker's Large Laser, by design, have big chance to hit both JJs and my leg internals but doing so will divide that 9 damage to the three locations--something like 2/4/3 damage each--even when I am standing still. Consequently it takes 2 or 3 times more hits with lasers to destroy something a PPC can do with one shot. Incidentally both PPC damage and critical item HP are 10 so even if one PPC missed my internals and hit my JJ, it will destroy it instantly, unlike stupid lasers.

If that Stalker had PPCs he could have killed me way sooner with my big exposed CT.

With the exception of ammo, destroying critical components has absolutely nothing to do with killing a mech.

If you land a laser shot on a section with exposed internals, it will kill that mech exactly as fast as a PPC will (if you're doing equal damage.. like, for instance, with 2 ML's).

But you need to make sure you land the whole laser blast on that section.

People are under this mistaken impression that destroying critical components ha something to do with killing a mech.. it doesn't. It's a totally separate gameplay element (and largely one that doesn't matter in most situations).

The reason that guy with lasers in the video isn't killing you, is because he's freaking terrible. He's just spraying laser fire all over the place.

[Soy]

LLs are beast and always have been, always will be.

[Sybreed]

zorak ramone, on 09 May 2013 - 07:28 AM, said:

Its easy to predict what will happen if they nerf PPCs.

Back when PPCs were 10 or 9 heat, the dominant weapons were the GR, UAC5, and SRM6, with the AC5, LL, ML, and LRM serving as second tier weapons.

If we raise PPC heat again, we're back to where we started ... only now missiles are nerfed, so the top tier of weapons will include only the GR and UAC5, wit the AC5, LL and ML serving as backups.

sounds like putting a hardpoint size system and not nerfing PPCs would solve all issues!

[SerpentrasD]

IF you carry only Lasers it is true but if you carry only Pulse then you will get some more Kills.
Last time I saw this I was running with my favorite Atlas the K with dual ER PPC , Gauss and one SRM6.
I was followed by a 4x LPL Highlander who finished 6 Mechs we two deal almost the same damage , 705 for me 703 for him.
Before the crowd just grab the Sniper weapons I just build brawling mechs most of the time because DPS could strip & kill anything but now without a massive alpha and one long range weapon I would not enter the battle with a slow mech.
I still favor my 6SL Jenner F who will kill and damage enough if the field is not overcrowd by Streakers.

Also If stay in front of an 7ML or MPL AWS 8Q and in his Opti range he will melt your mech with his 30HS he will be cool enough to cut you out of your cockpit.

Edited by SerpentrasD, 09 May 2013 - 09:24 AM.

[Mafalin]

What Roland said above is true. When armour is gone it works like this: Shooting a section will reduce its hp until they're gone; when they are, the section is destroyed. In addition to this you might score a critical hit (with the same shot) which damages a component in that section. This damage is applied in addition to the damage done to the hp of the section and has onthing to do with destroying the section, only the weapons/ammo/other stuff you have in the section. A mech dies when either the ct (ct or rt or lt for xl engines) section is reduced to 0 hp or when both legs are.

[TruePoindexter]

Roland, on 09 May 2013 - 08:59 AM, said:

The reason that guy with lasers in the video isn't killing you, is because he's freaking terrible. He's just spraying laser fire all over the place.

Yeah after watching the video they were a pretty lousy shot.

[Ryebear]

To add, Engines have 15 health, you can actually crit the engine and destroy it, buuuuuut the mech doesn't die until an appropriate torso section is destroyed.

Crit padding is only useful for lowering the chances of an ammo explosion or a favored piece of equipment gets destroyed before the entire location is destroyed. Crit padding won't prolong the locations life.

[ThePieMaker]

You can't say that lasers suck just because the one guy you were fighting was awful at aiming. Good players who can actually aim are good with lasers. Bad people who can't aim are not good with lasers.
Same goes for PPC's.

That guy was such a terrible shot that if he had PPC's you probably wouldn't of even taken damage...

[Kraven Kor]

Eh, I still seem to do "better" so far as kills when boating lasers than when boating PPC's. But it is situational.

Anecdotal evidence, for sure, and it is all dependent on how the lasers land. If you hit a mech moving directly towards or away from you, and can thus hold the laser on a given spot, they are just as brutal. Cored a Jagermech in 3 alpha's last night with 9x MLas 4P - dude just stood there and ignored me and died for it. Then ran into another Jager who was not bad enough to just stand still and he ate me for lunch as my lasers raked over half his chassis from how he turned and twisted.

[Mechteric]

Having viewed the video I can say you weren't fighting someone who had a good grasp on how to keep lasers on target.

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 09 May 2013 - 10:09 AM.

[Braggart]

lasers will never be as powerful as a high damage instant damage weapon.

IF someone sprays me with lasers, i can spread that damage around. If someone hits me with gauss/ppc/acs. All that damage is gonna connect with the same spot whether i torso twist or not. With lasers I can get them to spread that damage around a bit.

Which will always give the edge to high damage instant damage weapons. Not to mention that because they are instant damage, their recharge rate starts sooner. Lasers dont start recharging until they have finished.

[Dukarriope]

Oddly enough, I can easily kill anything I want with my six large lasers, but can't seem to finish them off with PPCs.