39 replies to this topic

[Straften]

IamSalvation, on 11 May 2013 - 07:50 AM, said:

Oh, one found out that those "No Brain", "Skillless" PPC Stalkers have to manage Heat like no other Mech? Congratulations!

Now imagine how Heat is with 6 PPC Builds!
And then call them Easy Mode again....

Easymode.

[Terror Teddy]

Heat Management - You need to learn it.

[Kiiyor]

Terror Teddy, on 11 May 2013 - 12:38 PM, said:

Heat Management - You need to learn it.

EXACTLY.

Heat management is just like playing blackjack, except you know exactly which cards are going to appear each time.

[Alistair Winter]

IamSalvation, on 11 May 2013 - 07:50 AM, said:

Oh, one found out that those "No Brain", "Skillless" PPC Stalkers have to manage Heat like no other Mech? Congratulations!

Now imagine how Heat is with 6 PPC Builds!
And then call them Easy Mode again....

Easy Mode

[Trauglodyte]

151st Light Horse Regiment, on 09 May 2013 - 10:11 AM, said:

21. Count them, 21. TWENTY ONE double heatsinks.

And this pile of **** still overheats with 3x ppc's in chain fire.

Absolute joke that a mech of this size and power cannot cope with even modest heat, despite being stacked out with heatsinks.

I tried using missiles to give a break to the heat generated by energy, but i'd probably do more damage by throwing cabbage at the enemy.

fml.

I really hate saying this cause it is mean but every single one of your 52 posts has been nothing but a whine fest based on a complete and total lack of understanding of this game. How about you do some research or, here is an even better idea, go to the test games and try things out before you bother everyone's time with yet another wasted topic filled with uneducated vitriol?

[Deathlike]

Trauglodyte, on 11 May 2013 - 03:03 PM, said:

I really hate saying this cause it is mean but every single one of your 52 posts has been nothing but a whine fest based on a complete and total lack of understanding of this game. How about you do some research or, here is an even better idea, go to the test games and try things out before you bother everyone's time with yet another wasted topic filled with uneducated vitriol?

Shhh... he doesn't need to know he's "special".

[One Medic Army]

IamSalvation, on 11 May 2013 - 07:50 AM, said:

Oh, one found out that those "No Brain", "Skillless" PPC Stalkers have to manage Heat like no other Mech? Congratulations!

Now imagine how Heat is with 6 PPC Builds!
And then call them Easy Mode again....

I played a 4PPC stalker, before the heat reduction to PPCs. Actually it was 2 PPC and 2 ERPPC.

Yeah, it is easy mode right now.

[Kanatta Jing]

If you want to barrage fire use AC/2's. They run cooler, do more DPS, and have better range then PPCs.

Check the math here -> http://mwo.gamepedia...ategory:Weapons

PPCs are only cool for taking potshots with before you dive back into cover.

[MustrumRidcully]

Kiiyor, on 11 May 2013 - 02:23 PM, said:

EXACTLY.

Heat management is just like playing blackjack, except you know exactly which cards are going to appear each time.

NIce analogy.

Personally, i think heat management is not about counting to your heat capacity. I mean, yes, that#s what you got to do to be able to manage it, but, the management is managing the risks and the rewards.

In the table top game, the whole deal is more complex, because there are different heat penalties, affecting speed and to-hit chances, ammo explosion risks and eventualyl also shutdowns. IN M:WO it's all down to shutdown, unfortunately.

Anyway, the risk of overheating in MW:O is standing around helpless. That sucks. But ... it doesn't really matter if the shots that overhated you killed or disabled the enemy, for example.
It doesn't matter if you're out of range of the enemies weapons.

Of course, this might be the most extreme risks - how long do you wait for a good shot? Shoot to early and you might miss, and now have gained a lot of heat and make you unable to s hoot again without overheating. Shoot too late and you might have taken too much damage, or the enemy is out of sight.

All this requires situational awareness, which happens to include knowing your heat blackjack.

[Kiiyor]

MustrumRidcully, on 12 May 2013 - 12:47 AM, said:

Of course, this might be the most extreme risks - how long do you wait for a good shot? Shoot to early and you might miss, and now have gained a lot of heat and make you unable to s hoot again without overheating. Shoot too late and you might have taken too much damage, or the enemy is out of sight.

All this requires situational awareness, which happens to include knowing your heat blackjack.

Good points.

I've always been of the opinion that if you have a shot at an enemy and can cause even one point of damage without shutting down, you should take it.

Then I exploded a lot, and realized that the secret of all this heat management is to think of your situation. At the start of a match, you can make the thermometer bounce between 0 and redline, and unless you shut down in front of everyone, you're probably going to be fine.

Later though, when the chaff has been removed and only the horribly damaged wheat remains, you have to be far more strategic. Forcing opponents to waste heat is a great way to get a kill. Snapping shots at Jenners as they flit between buildings is a great way to get yourself cored in return.

This is my favorite part of a match, where shutting down makes you itch between your shoulder blades, where you are trying to take hits on your back, because that's the only place you have armour left. When you and an an opponent both shut down at the same time and it's a race to get the next shutdown shot off after powerup.

[Appogee]

It is a poor tradesman who blames his tools.

[Straften]

Kanatta Jing, on 11 May 2013 - 10:44 PM, said:

If you want to barrage fire use AC/2's. They run cooler, do more DPS, and have better range then PPCs.

Check the math here -> http://mwo.gamepedia...ategory:Weapons

PPCs are only cool for taking potshots with before you dive back into cover.

The math doesn't account for many things in the field. Like the fact that a 4PPC alpha deals 40 damage right away. It frontloads ALL of the damage. The AC2's have to stay on target, and can't drop and hide behind cover to achieve that dps.

In my PPC Stalker, I can be at 99% heat at the top of a hill "standing" by walking forward at the minimum kph on the steep slope, fire my alpha strike, and deal 40 damage. When I overheat, I drop down the slope into safety because I stop "standing" there by ceasing to walk foward. An AC2 mech wouldn't be able to deal 40 damage in that situation, and a laser boat wouldn't be able to hold on target for the full duraton.

ERPPC deals more damage than large laser, at far greater range, and frontloads all of the damage. There is a travel speed, but no channel time. It's like and AC10 which weighs 7 tons instead of 12(+ammo), has a projectile which travels twice as fast, has unlimited ammo, and longer range. The only downside is that it generates 11 heat instead of 3. Well, when you don't need to store ammo and the weapon weighs less, you can use that tonnage on engine and heatsinks. Pretty easy trade off for infinite ammo, more range, faster projectile, and significantly less tonnage. Not to mention the status effect.

While I agree that they are only good for shooting and taking cover, the game needs balancing. I don't agree that PPCs need a nerf yet, but close range weapons need a buff. When you have to run through 1000+ meters of sniper fire to get into effective range, it should be worth it. It's all already in the making, but I cannot wait for the 21st!

[MustrumRidcully]

Straften, on 12 May 2013 - 09:34 AM, said:

The math doesn't account for many things in the field. Like the fact that a 4PPC alpha deals 40 damage right away. It frontloads ALL of the damage. The AC2's have to stay on target, and can't drop and hide behind cover to achieve that dps.

I wonder if it wouldn't be - at least in the current meta - to measure the damage and heat of values - as "DPS5" or maybe "DPS10" - damage done in 5 seconds respectively 10 seconds.

An AC/2 has a DPS5 of 22 and a HPS5 of 11.
A Gauss Rifle has a DPS5 of 30 and a HPS5 of 2.
A PPC has a DPS5 of 20 and a HPS5 of 16.

Well, this still lmakes the AC/2 look a bit too good, I suppose..

[Roadbuster]

ER-PPC 3,67hps
PPC 2,67hps

Chainfire of 3 PPCs is 1 PPC fired each second, so you have to dissipate either 3,67 or 2,67 heat per second to be heat neutral.
Any mech with a engine 250+ has 10 engine heat sinks.

That means, with 21 DHS you have 10 DHS @2,0 and 11 DHS @1,4.
DHS@2,0 dissipate 0,2hps
DHS@1,4 dissipate 0,14hps

10x0,2+11x0,14=3,54 => you dissipate 3,54 heat per second which is enough to chainfire normal PPCs but not enough for ER-PPCs depending on the temperature of the map.

Edited by Roadbuster, 13 May 2013 - 02:22 AM.

[Straften]

Roadbuster, on 13 May 2013 - 02:15 AM, said:

ER-PPC 3,67hps
PPC 2,67hps

Chainfire of 3 PPCs is 1 PPC fired each second, so you have to dissipate either 3,67 or 2,67 heat per second to be heat neutral.
Any mech with a engine 250+ has 10 engine heat sinks.

That means, with 21 DHS you have 10 DHS @2,0 and 11 DHS @1,4.
DHS@2,0 dissipate 0,2hps
DHS@1,4 dissipate 0,14hps

10x0,2+11x0,14=3,54 => you dissipate 3,54 heat per second which is enough to chainfire normal PPCs but not enough for ER-PPCs depending on the temperature of the map.

Right now, there is not reason to chainfire unless you have already alpha'd and need to use less heat. The reason is that the alpha strike frontloads pinpoint high damage. Even a pinpoint weapon like a laser, has a channel time. During this channel time, it is unlikely that you will be able to hold your 4-6LL on target while this duration takes place; meaning, you won't deal the 9x(#LL) damage in the weapon table. WIth the PPC you just need to hit, and you've dealt 10x(#PPC) damage to a single component, and you are already behind cover.

[Superslicks]

Your doing it all wrong, the way to use ppc is to snipe from a distance and use cover, im using 5x ER PPc and even though I overheat I allways seem to do well with the Stalker 5S.... I have safety in distance

[Straften]

151st Light Horse Regiment, on 09 May 2013 - 10:11 AM, said:

21. Count them, 21. TWENTY ONE double heatsinks.

And this pile of **** still overheats with 3x ppc's in chain fire.

Absolute joke that a mech of this size and power cannot cope with even modest heat, despite being stacked out with heatsinks.

I tried using missiles to give a break to the heat generated by energy, but i'd probably do more damage by throwing cabbage at the enemy.

fml.

[Curccu]

151st Light Horse Regiment, on 11 May 2013 - 04:06 AM, said:

I've finally decided, it;s the worst mech in its class. The highlander and atlas outclass it at every stage.

LOL

[William Warriors]

Awesome 8Q.. slow.. useless and i have purchases an 8Q once to get the experience points for my 9m model. Never again.

My 9M model now can do 80.9 KPH, move like a medium, hit like a heavy... now that is Awesome.

PPCs do lousy damage compare to Large Lasers..The only thing worthy of them is that they do damage like auto-cannons.

However when the Warhawk comes out.. their kind of PPC is not to a laugh at.. but 12 heat per PPC.. that is crazy..

I will love 5 clan ER large laser when it is made available.. that will make my Awesome a killer.

Edited by William Conrad, 14 May 2013 - 01:47 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

armyof1, on 09 May 2013 - 10:42 AM, said:

I have to say it's hard to find any sympathy for your not being able chainfire three of the currently Second best weapon in all eternity.

Fixed it for you. Gauss is still the MechDaddy weapon.