135 replies to this topic

[AC]

I am going to try and write this post calmly, even though I am frustrated to no end at this point. Most of the remaining player base can see that it is NOT the weapons that need balancing, but the mechs. Here are some quick examples so we can all be on the same page....

Is the AC 20 OP? No, but the Twin AC20 Jagger is....
Is the PPC Op? No, but the 6PPC Stalker is....
Is the streak Op? No, but the splatcat is....

My point is that no one would be too concerned about a twin PPC Atlas, or an AC 20 on a hunchie, or a gauss on a Centurion. The issues come due to PGI's horrible broken mech slot system. This system allows you to drop in a gauss or AC20 where a machine gun once was, or a PPC where a medium laser was. Not only is the concept ridiculous, but it is breaking weapons balance every patch. How can we balance weapons when each new chassis breaks the balance further?

Our latest example is the Misery..... and I quote from the marketing email.

Quote

Stalker pilots rejoice! A new Hero Mech “Misery” is waiting for a pilot in a Mech Bay near you. This 85 ton Assault Mech packs quite a punch with a diverse set of hardpoints; the single ballistic, missile and AMS hardpoints augment 5 energy hardpoints for an Alpha Strike that will surely have your enemies wishing they were on your team. With a 30% C-Bill bonus, Misery will keep you company.

Know what runs cooler than 6PPC? 4PPC.... and what has a higher alpha punch than 6PPC? 4PPC LL and a gauss..... This is 1 shot death for medium mechs.

I think I am going to take a long break from this game and hope PGI wakes up to how bad their slot system is and how it is ruining the fun and challenge of this game. There is absolutely no challenge or satisfaction in one shot killing a mech. Sorry... there just isn't.....

Not only that but imagine how new players will be frustrated and give up if they are one or two shot killed the first few games they play. You keep 1-upping the alpha strike capability with each patch just to sell more mechs. This is a HORRIBLE business decision that is ruining the game and will eventually ruin your profits as well.

Edited by AC, 09 May 2013 - 02:52 PM.

[Coralld]

Some one had mention something like this before in another forum...

skullman86, on 06 May 2013 - 07:28 PM, said:

I feel like the only way they are going to balance this game is if they look at mech balance instead of focusing on weapons (weapon balance is important, but it isnt always at the core of meta problems). Add critical limits to hardpoints on a mech by mech basis to balance mechs in their own weight class and we might see less flavor of the month type stuff. A good example of this would be to limit the size of the available energy hardpoints for most assault mechs and then give the awesome full boating capabilities. By doing this you shift all the boaters to what is viewed as an inferior chassis, but is definitely intended to PPC boat, and then you look at weapon balance (if necessary).

--------------------------

Stalkers- Energy hardpoints limited to 2 crit slots (4 crit slots in each arm). Still two energy hardpoints, but the size restriction means you can carry 1 PPC and 1 med laser, 2 large lasers, or some other loadout that uses up 4 crits slots.

Atlas- Energy hardpoints in the arms limited to 2 crit slots each except for RS where two energy hardpoints in the arms would mean it would be limited to 3-4 crits so that players could use double large lasers or a PPC + med las etc. (I can see some issues arising from this)

Awesome- Every energy hardpoint gets 3 critical slots across the board. Two energy hardpoints in a section would equal 6 crit slots and so on (PPCs up in this *****)

Highlander- Limit energy hardpoints to 2 crit slots each as a general rule.
-732 having 3 energy hardpoints in the right torso could get a total of 6 crit slots
-733p would get its 6 crits in the arm and torso could either go 6 crits or 4...not really sure what I would do here
-HM would get 6 crits in the left arm

By doing this you would limit most assaults to 2 PPCs. Changes like this would need to be made for all weapon types and chassis. I just chose assault because they are the worst offenders for this particular subject.

And here is my simplified version.

Coralld, on 09 May 2013 - 01:50 PM, said:

Interesting idea, perhaps it can be simplified by creating a new stat box for mechs, lets call it "Heavy Hard Points" that shows how many heavy weapons can be placed on a mechs ballistic, energy, and missile hard points. Or have it say this is how many heavy weapons it can carry regardless of hard point type, or the combination of the two. The heavy weapon line up would be, Gauss, AC/20, LRM20s, LRM15s, SRM6s, Streaks, LLs, and PPCs.
Some mechs may not be able to have any heavy hard points at all... ECM mechs, I'm looking at you in particular.

Personally, I like the third one which is the combination of the two.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

you know what can't carry 5 PPCs. The Misery, the CT only has 2 critical slots.

[SirLANsalot]

https://soundcloud.c...ng-podcast-0069

Slots like in MW4 will never happen.

Agent 0 Fortune, on 09 May 2013 - 02:35 PM, said:

you know what can't carry 5 PPCs. The Misery, the CT only has 2 critical slots.

da truth.

5 LL however is possible, and is used

[fatcat01]

Since you are a founder I am going to assume that you remember the Gaussapult from CB.

There were people on the forums everyday saying that Gauss rifles should not be able to replace MGs.

Eventually PGI added Gauss rifle explosions (along with a serious hp reduction) and that ended the complaints about Gaussapults.

However, I believe that you are never going to see a weapon size limitation beyond what we currently have.

though I do agree that it would help balance the game.

[AC]

SirLANsalot, on 09 May 2013 - 02:41 PM, said:

https://soundcloud.c...ng-podcast-0069

Slots like in MW4 will never happen.



da truth.

5 LL however is possible, and is used

Which is unfortunate. MW4 probably had the best chassis balancing system of all the MW's.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

SirLANsalot, on 09 May 2013 - 02:41 PM, said:

5 LL however is possible, and is used

Do you mean 5LL + Gauss? That would be a slow glass cannon with an awful range.

I think that was OP's general idea to get 5 heavy energy weapons and gauss.

[Tombstoner]

lets see... a hero mech that takes advantage of the best aspects of the current meta game and people are not screaming pay to win.... for shame people.

[Coralld]

SirLANsalot, on 09 May 2013 - 02:41 PM, said:

https://soundcloud.c...ng-podcast-0069

Slots like in MW4 will never happen.

I don't know if this is directed at me or the OP, also, NGNG and PGI tend to be far to flip floppy on things for me to take them serious on what they say about what they are going to or not going to do. Also, I am not talking about MW4 weapon hard point system, not even close.

[Huntsman]

SirLANsalot, on 09 May 2013 - 02:41 PM, said:

https://soundcloud.c...ng-podcast-0069

Slots like in MW4 will never happen.



da truth.

5 LL however is possible, and is used

While the 6 PPC build has some viability since they reduced the heat of the weapon, I still laugh at people who use the build. It's such a newbie thing to bring a slow mech with a full suite of weapons that all have minimum range issues to a serious fight. Even in PUGs the rare times I see them they are burned down immediately.

A player is far better off putting 5 or 6 LL on a Stalker than bringing PPCs.

[PropagandaWar]

I'd feel ya but I dont get alphed by smurf **** stalkers enough to give a crap . AC 20 Jagers. mmmm'k Pew, Pew XL engine be gone they blow. Pop Tarts would be fine if they suffered major leg damage from jumpin and shutting falling with no fuel to pad their decent and fell and took even more damage for shutting down mid air. Splat Cats will be fine too if they fixed the damn missle to hit everywhere and had about a second lock time then missles a free for all with no silly *** u-turn gimick. I agree they should do something about convergance on torso mounted weapons i.e have them cross at x range. Not fire straight but maybe have a ppc hit center ret at 400 meters out or something.

fatcat01, on 09 May 2013 - 02:45 PM, said:

Since you are a founder I am going to assume that you remember the Gaussapult from CB.

There were people on the forums everyday saying that Gauss rifles should not be able to replace MGs.

Eventually PGI added Gauss rifle explosions (along with a serious hp reduction) and that ended the complaints about Gaussapults.

However, I believe that you are never going to see a weapon size limitation beyond what we currently have.

though I do agree that it would help balance the game.

I complained about the asthetic. Once they added the model to reflect cannons it was no big deal to me. Yep, I to remember the nerf to the Gauss and still like it to this day.

Edited by PropagandaWar, 09 May 2013 - 02:53 PM.

[Vassago Rain]

You can only put at most 4 PPCs on it. The fifth slot's in the center.

Also, quad PPC and goose means a tiny engine, or no armor. Besides all these crippling downsides, atlas RS has been doing quad PPC/goose for about a month and a half now.

Misery only befalls those who buy this expensive mech.

[AC]

fatcat01, on 09 May 2013 - 02:45 PM, said:

Since you are a founder I am going to assume that you remember the Gaussapult from CB.

There were people on the forums everyday saying that Gauss rifles should not be able to replace MGs.

Eventually PGI added Gauss rifle explosions (along with a serious hp reduction) and that ended the complaints about Gaussapults.

However, I believe that you are never going to see a weapon size limitation beyond what we currently have.

though I do agree that it would help balance the game.

I think the complains ended becau

fatcat01, on 09 May 2013 - 02:45 PM, said:

Since you are a founder I am going to assume that you remember the Gaussapult from CB.

There were people on the forums everyday saying that Gauss rifles should not be able to replace MGs.

Eventually PGI added Gauss rifle explosions (along with a serious hp reduction) and that ended the complaints about Gaussapults.

However, I believe that you are never going to see a weapon size limitation beyond what we currently have.

though I do agree that it would help balance the game.

I think the complaints ended because soon after the nerf, we got mechs that could do even high alphas. PPC became viable and easier to use. Gauss rilfes are still extremely viable. Twin gauss Jagger is a better mech thant he Gaussapult anyway. Plus PGI relesae the Phract that could dual gauss too.

[Chameleon Silk]

i dont see what the problem with the misery really is the ATLAS can also carry the same stuff, to me the misery isn't even that great, people who complain something is OP have no idea what they are talking about... it really comes down to pilot / team skill, running over a hill into dual ac20 jager is stupid, its just plain stupid, you get sensors on it you see what it is and you back up while shooting it as a team.

its the same deal with srm cat, you dont run up to shake its launchers, ppc boat, you get close using terrain masking, ER PPC, you got medium lasers close to within 540 meters (like i do on my hunchback)

you have to start thinking of weapon envelopes and develop better tactics obviously you cant always succeed at stuff but nothing is terribly imba at the moment.

[Mechteric]

I for one thank all Misery owners for running XL engines. Keep fighting the good fight and prematurely exploding in front of my cross hairs.

[SerpentrasD]

Haha I laugh my *** of because in my eyes this type of hero is junk like the Commando for the whole class it self.
Like others said it before 5 ppcs cant be mounted and also if the guys who choose to go into the battle with a 4 ppc and 1 gauss must take an XL and other stuff to compensate the weight and the slots. Do you know how much HS or DHS you can mount ? Not?! I was running just for fun before they first rebalanced them a AWS 8q with 6ppcs and it was sure fun if you hit the button in the right time and I read often WTF was that but guess what? It was total inefficient for the team it self. and IF someone get to close you can Imagen what was going on then. I really like Stalkers with 6ppcs because I just see them and know they are a free kill and they only can shoot constant with 2 ppcs. And this Hero if they get the gauss and 4ppcs they are the ultimate free kill because if the gauss blow up they barely survive that.

Edited by SerpentrasD, 09 May 2013 - 03:56 PM.

[Deathlike]

AC, on 09 May 2013 - 02:46 PM, said:

Which is unfortunate. MW4 probably had the best chassis balancing system of all the MW's.

No it was not. The system allowed for boating just as much and if you couldn't do it in one chassis, you would do it in the most preferred chassis.

Pretty much, it is the same system as it is now, more or less.

[Chameleon Silk]

commando is not junk, a good light pilot can deal out massive amount of damage for having a very low tonnage, like a jenner for instance, i run in a medium mech and out damage an atlas and misery consistently you just gotta know how to play the class and they are all viable.

[Chameleon Silk]

actually i will tell you whats junk a bad pilot running out and dying first 20 seconds in a light mech thats junk... they should be waiting till the enemy is busy and then harassing trying to get the enemy to chase or turn on them... then all those brutus types can pummel rear amor, but hey you guys all know what you talking about right?

[w0rm]

CapperDeluxe, on 09 May 2013 - 02:58 PM, said:

I for one thank all Misery owners for running XL engines. Keep fighting the good fight and prematurely exploding in front of my cross hairs.

This ^^