13 replies to this topic

[Svalfangr]

Are they always better?

I've been told to always run DHS but no one has mentioned armor or frame upgrades.

So should i always get them? or will they hurt me in the long run?

[Stoicblitzer]

mwo.smurfy-net.de

armor upgrade almost never better than endo upgrade. both only on light mechs typically. dhs 99% of the time is better than than shs.

[FrostCollar]

Short answer: except for DHS, no.

Long answer: "Upgrades" is somewhat of a misnomer. No, they are not all straight upgrades but they can be useful. Here's a quick rundown:

• Double heat sinks double the effectiveness of the heat sinks within your engine and allow you to equip double heat sinks in place of normal heat sinks. DHS have 1.4 times the effectiveness of normal heat sinks, weigh the same, but take up three times the space. You can see how many heat sinks are in your engine in the mechlab. 250 engines and above have 10 heat sinks, lower ones have one less for each 25 points lower in engine rating (so 225-245 engines have 9, 200-20 have 8, etc.). With only a few unusual exceptions, this upgrade is always worth it.
  
• Endo Steel consumes 14 of your mech's slots and in return halves the weight of your mech's structure. The weight of a normal structure is 10% multiplied by your mech's weight (ES makes it 5%). This gives you some more tonnage to use at the cost of limiting your space. It's worthwhile on mechs that have space to spare, generally lighter mechs.
  
• Ferro-Fibrous armor also consumes 14 slots and in return makes each point of your armor lighter. How much lighter per point? You get 32 points of standard armor per ton and 35.85 of FF, IIRC. It consumes the same number of slots endo steel consumes but the weight gain from FF is always less than that of endo steel. In addition, you cannot add any more armor than you could otherwise (thought it weighs less). This means that you should never get Ferro-Fibrous instead of Endo Steel. A few builds on mechs with tons of free space (mostly lights) and a great need of tonnage use both, but again: never buy FF alone. It's strictly worse than Endo Steel for what it does.
  
• Artemis IV adds fire control systems to any LRMs or SRMs for your mech. If you don't equip any LRMs or SRMs, then you won't see a difference in your builds - the weight and space increases are added to the weapons themselves. Artemis IV halves lock on times for LRMs (and SSRMs if you've got the LRMs equipped, because they use the same lock-on system. Whoops.) and improves missile grouping and tracking. However, these bonuses only apply if the enemy is in line-of-sight. Artemis IV doesn't help indirectly fired LRMs. On SRMs, it tightens the spread of the missiles so they are better at range.

I hope I didn't forget anything, but in general, here's a cheat sheet.

Should I buy this upgrade?

• DHS: yes.
  
• ES: If you have an excess of space and need more tonnage
  
• FF: If you have an excess of space, need more tonnage, and have already bought ES.
  
• Artemis: If you boat LRMs, or you've found you prefer Artemis SRMs. This one's more of a judgement call.

EDIT: Oh, and one final note - you have to pay every time you swap an upgrade in or out of a mech, you don't "own" them like you do weapons. I wanted to make that clear just so you don't waste any CBills.

Edited by FrostCollar, 12 May 2013 - 05:59 PM.

[Edustaja]

What he said. Endo-steel on everything, except some assault mechs. DHS on everything you can afford. Ferro fibrous only on lights that have extra space.

And remember it costs cbills to remove the upgrade.

Edited by Edustaja, 12 May 2013 - 06:00 PM.

[Svalfangr]

So i'm running an Atlas D-DC (i think)(Da ECM one) So i should deffinately grab DHS and Endo but skip ferro.

What about artemis? I only have 3 missle hardpoints so im certainly not boating and i dont think SSRMs would be good, but what do you guys think?

[Wintersdark]

Svalfangr, on 12 May 2013 - 06:53 PM, said:

So i'm running an Atlas D-DC (i think)(Da ECM one) So i should deffinately grab DHS and Endo but skip ferro.

What about artemis? I only have 3 missle hardpoints so im certainly not boating and i dont think SSRMs would be good, but what do you guys think?

DHS: As said above, always.
Endo: Maybe. The Atlas has a lot of tonnage already, so you may not need it. Depends on your specific build - only buy it if you actually need it. Use smurfy's mechlab to plan out your builds and experiement.
If you're just using SSRM2's, don't bother with artemis.

[mailin]

Simple answer, DHS usually, Endo if you have plenty of room but need the weight, FF only after everything else and if you have the room but need the weight.

[zraven7]

A note on Artemis for SRMs: Do not underestimate the effectiveness of this upgrade.

Understand, SRMs are effective without Artemis. However, it's like comparing a sawed-off shotgun to a long-barrel shooting double-ought. It's especially useful on builds with 2 or 3 SRM6's. If you're careful, you can slap all your missiles across 2, maybe 3 armor plates at up to 270 meters. On my Trebbie, at under 150 meters, I can often put all 12 into a single back plate,

[FrostCollar]

zraven7, on 13 May 2013 - 04:54 AM, said:

A note on Artemis for SRMs: Do not underestimate the effectiveness of this upgrade.

There are a lot of good analysis videos on the effects of artemis on SRMs on youtube. Here's the best, IMO:

Edited by FrostCollar, 13 May 2013 - 09:47 AM.

[zraven7]

FrostCollar, on 13 May 2013 - 09:46 AM, said:

There are a lot of good analysis videos on the effects of artemis on SRMs on youtube. Here's the best, IMO:

This is a really good video, and confirms some suspicions I had. Thanks for linking it. :-)

[Aym]

DHS yes, Endo probably not. The Atlas usually doesn't have the free crit slots for Endo, the double heat sinks and big guns take up all your crit slots before you can really use the extra 5 tons from Endo.

[JC Daxion]

FrostCollar, on 13 May 2013 - 09:46 AM, said:

There are a lot of good analysis videos on the effects of artemis on SRMs on youtube. Here's the best, IMO:

that is a good ton, for ton comparison... BUT... what about mechs, that only have limited hard points.. I think i may test, With and with out.. but not bumping up in SRM count. To me that is more fair. (though if you do have the room for 4 it might be worth it..

then again, you are chomping through more AMMO, so that is something that has to be thought about.. My 300 rounds in Dual SRM 6 launchers.. really doesn't last that long. I am often down to just lasers by the end of a long match which greatly reduces my damage.

if you have 300 rounds, You are going to get 6 less shots with the extra SRM 6.. 6 shots, that could be used to take down a whole other mech.. vrs just doing the kill one shot faster.. I suppose if you have 6 kills, then it wouldn't mater, but it does factor in

[FrostCollar]

JC Daxion, on 14 May 2013 - 01:24 PM, said:

that is a good ton, for ton comparison... BUT... what about mechs, that only have limited hard points.. I think i may test, With and with out.. but not bumping up in SRM count. To me that is more fair. (though if you do have the room for 4 it might be worth it..

What do you mean? Artemis consumes a bit more space, but SRMs with Artemis just consume one missile hardpoint like SRMs without. Are you referring to the number of missile tubes in some mechs?

JC Daxion, on 14 May 2013 - 01:24 PM, said:

then again, you are chomping through more AMMO, so that is something that has to be thought about.. My 300 rounds in Dual SRM 6 launchers.. really doesn't last that long. I am often down to just lasers by the end of a long match which greatly reduces my damage.

I'm no SRM maven, but in my own experience I've found 1 ton per SRM6 completely inadequate. 1.5 tons per launcher is the minimum I'd launch with, and that's still not many shots.

[JC Daxion]

the tests in that video show, the difference between using artemis or using the saved weight by not using it, and adding another SRM 6 launcher. Sometimes you don't have the places to add that to make up the damage difference.

also i was just pointing out, adding another launcher, will eat through your ammo faster.


300 rounds, is 3 tons of ammo, for 2 launchers, I have considered dropping a heat sink, and making it 4 tons. But the desert map my mech gets really hot.