272 replies to this topic

[Bombadil]

LaserAngel, on 22 May 2013 - 02:14 PM, said:

I only made it a topic just because someone asked me to do so.

Your podcast your right, I have no issues with that. Just with the lies.

[StandingCow]

War of the podcasts.

I think NGNG needs to fight KONG in a match, whoever loses, the entire team has to wear catsuits.

Edit: I did roll my eyes at the whole catsuit being distasteful bit.

Edited by StandingCow, 22 May 2013 - 05:52 PM.

[valkyrie]

Bombadil, on 22 May 2013 - 01:27 PM, said:

"BB Wolfe apparently lost a bet and had to stream playing MWO while dressed in a catsuit...I don't know if that was Phil's idea or someone at NGNG's idea...it's questionable at best...if it was something that was actually backed by PGI or IGP, which I kind of think it might have been, that's really questionable..."

Wow. You know what's really questionable? Your facts. Other than BB streaming (on her own private channel - doing artwork - not playing MWO btw) in a catsuit, nothing else is even remotely true. Not even close, chump. Shame on you.

Bombadil, on 22 May 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

You're welcome, and that's your opinion and I disagree.

Yes, I personally posted it on the NGNG Facebook page. I take all responsibility and credit for that, am perfectly fine with it, and am perfectly fine with some people thinking it was distasteful. As the disclaimer says at the beginning of each of our podcasts, we are an adult podcast, we use adult language, etc. If you are offended, you don't have to listen/watch.

You want an explanation for why I have my opinion about this?

For the last few months, MWO streaming has become a big part of NGNG's programming, so to speak. Just before this, we had heard rumblings of Phil working to get previews of upcoming MWO content on NGNG streams because that's what we wanted to see. When I see "NGNG" and "stream," ESPECIALLY when what's being streamed isn't explicitly stated, I assume "MWO stream, backed by IGP like all the others." After all, you guys are basically the MWO/MWT news source, seeing as how PGI/IGP fails so spectacularly at getting Garth/Bryan to interact with his community seriously anywhere else but Twitter in circumstances short of a Class 5 ****storm.

Can you understand why I assumed what I did about that stream, and why others thought the same thing? From the outside looking in, it's a wildly different perspective. To put it in Phil's terms, it's all about context. There's nothing about her streaming art and not playing MWO, nothing about her doing it on her personal stream and not NGNG TV, nothing about it not being sanctioned by PGI/IGP in any official/semi-official matter, but given the fact that almost everything else you stream is, it's not a huge leap of logic to assume that yeah, this is at least somewhat PGI-approved.

Now, considering the whole point of mentioning the catsuit is to get attention, I - and many others - thought "publicity stunt" first and foremost. And, frankly, I wasn't impressed by the idea of this being a publicity stunt, which all signs pointed to. It reeked of pandering to me. You say "it's an adult podcast, don't watch or listen if you're offended," and I didn't watch that stream, both because I had other things to do besides watching someone play MWO/draw/paint/whatever, and because the implied idea that I would want to watch simply because OH MY GOD A GIRL ON THE INTERNET frankly rustled my jimmies a bit.

Ok, I was wrong about what actually went down. I'm fine admitting that. For that matter, I've got no problem that BB Wolfe streamed in a catsuit. You're 100% right, I don't have to watch, and I didn't because I didn't care either way. BB can dress up in whatever she wants when she plays games; it's her body and stream to do with as she pleases and I won't act like I'm above silly clothing either (I once played the entirety of Ace Combat Zero with a joystick while dressed in a flightsuit because hey why not?).

However, from a marketing standpoint, you came across acting in an official manner, and NGNG's (and PGI by vague association since everyone who plays this game is already paranoid enough about them after Coolantgate and 3PVgate) reputations were tarnished in some people's minds as a result. You sitting there and calling me "chump" isn't helping - I might have otherwise apologized for my comments and misunderstanding. As it is, I'll admit I misunderstood the situation, but I will not apologize for calling it as I saw it.

Edited by valkyrie, 22 May 2013 - 06:34 PM.

[Tabrias07]

valkyrie, on 22 May 2013 - 06:21 PM, said:

You want an explanation for why I have my opinion about this?

For the last few months, MWO streaming has become a big part of NGNG's programming, so to speak. Just before this, we had heard rumblings of Phil working to get previews of upcoming MWO content on NGNG streams because that's what we wanted to see. When I see "NGNG" and "stream," ESPECIALLY when what's being streamed isn't explicitly stated, I assume "MWO stream, backed by IGP like all the others." After all, you guys are basically the MWO/MWT news source, seeing as how PGI/IGP fails so spectacularly at getting Garth/Bryan to interact with his community seriously anywhere else but Twitter in circumstances short of a Class 5 ****storm.

Can you understand why I assumed what I did about that stream, and why others thought the same thing? From the outside looking in, it's a wildly different perspective. To put it in Phil's terms, it's all about context. There's nothing about her streaming art and not playing MWO, nothing about her doing it on her personal stream and not NGNG TV, nothing about it not being sanctioned by PGI/IGP in any official/semi-official matter, but given the fact that almost everything else you stream is, it's not a huge leap of logic to assume that yeah, this is at least somewhat PGI-approved.

Now, considering the whole point of mentioning the catsuit is to get attention, I - and many others - thought "publicity stunt" first and foremost. And, frankly, I wasn't impressed by the idea of this being a publicity stunt, which all signs pointed to. It reeked of pandering to me. You say "it's an adult podcast, don't watch or listen if you're offended," and I didn't watch that stream, both because I had other things to do besides watching someone play MWO/draw/paint/whatever, and because the implied idea that I would want to watch simply because OH MY GOD A GIRL ON THE INTERNET frankly rustled my jimmies a bit.

Ok, I was wrong about what actually went down. I'm fine admitting that. For that matter, I've got no problem that BB Wolfe streamed in a catsuit. You're 100% right, I don't have to watch, and I didn't because I didn't care either way. BB can dress up in whatever she wants when she plays games; it's her body and stream to do with as she pleases and I won't act like I'm above silly clothing either (I once played the entirety of Ace Combat Zero with a joystick while dressed in a flightsuit because hey why not?).

However, from a marketing standpoint, you came across acting in an official manner, and NGNG's (and PGI by vague association since everyone who plays this game is already paranoid enough about them after Coolantgate and 3PVgate) reputations were tarnished in some people's minds as a result. You sitting there and calling me "chump" isn't helping - I might have otherwise apologized for my comments and misunderstanding. As it is, I'll admit I misunderstood the situation, but I will not apologize for calling it as I saw it.

I would also like to clarify that I have no problem with her streaming whatever she wants, I think it was in bad taste to seemingly promote it on the NGNG Facebook.

[B B Wolfe]

As I was saying, you could easily have asked me directly instead of making assumptions, which you still seem to be doing. That, friend, is a pity.

[valkyrie]

B B Wolfe, on 22 May 2013 - 07:51 PM, said:

As I was saying, you could easily have asked me directly instead of making assumptions, which you still seem to be doing. That, friend, is a pity.

Asked you...what, exactly? I read the Facebook post all of once and basically did this:



Really, I didn't care enough to pry further into it. The only reason I brought it up on the Kast is because I thought it was just one more PR misstep in a long sad series of missteps. I commented on that and we moved on. While I appear to have been wrong, I'm not going to apologize for making judgment given the evidence that I was presented with at that time.

Edited by valkyrie, 22 May 2013 - 08:07 PM.

[Bombadil]

It is not my job or goal to get your understanding or approval in regards to this matter. You're basically attempting to justify your reasons for speaking without knowing any facts at all, and spreading misinformation. You pointed false accusations at NGNG, PGI, IGP, and my reason for calling you a chump, BB Wolfe. No effort was made at all to contact Phil or myself, anyone at PGI or IGP, or BB Wolfe herself to clarify anything on this matter. Instead, you chose the low road and just made **** up in the name of sensationalism. Woo! Nothing new, and par for the course.

If the whole NGNG/PGI/IGP thing is confusing you and stressing you out, I'll break it down for you. Currently, Phil and myself do contract work for IGP, ie. the tutorial videos and the 4 weekly streaming events on the IGP channel. Everything else, including our podcasts and NGNGtv's Twitch channel, is solely NGNG and is autonomous from PGI and IGP. I know that the fact that Phil and I approach things differently than some communities, in other words from a positive perspective rather than a cynical and angry perspective, could confuse the uninformed into thinking that everything we do is because we're paid to do it - but the truth is we're just BT/MW fans who want to see these games succeed, and we're nice guys who like to approach things from a cordial and constructively-critical perspective, rather than conform to what we feel is an attitude already in abundance, and well-represented on the Internet. And I am not, and cannot speak for PGI or IGP, but if you want more attention from these guys who are working tirelessly on this game, try not being such a douche. From my perspective, you're burning bridges while complaining that there are no bridges.

In regards to some of you thinking it was distasteful. Wow, seems KONG has the moral superiority over NGNG. Look, we are an adult podcast, and if you can't handle seeing BB in a catsuit that reveals nothing on our FB page, then don't come to our FB page. It's like Janet Jackson's wardrobe malfunction all over again, except without the malfunction. Childish IMO.

If this ruffles some feathers, well, I'm just "calling it as I see it".

And finally, I am very happy that there are other MW/MWO podcasts out there, in fact we've had some on our show and were more than happy to promote their endeavors. It will never be an NGNG vs. another podcasts thing to me, because I am happy to see the community grow no matter who is helping that happen, and it's great to have multiple viewpoints and opinions out there. I wish Kong Kast much success, and have had many positive conversations with other members of your community.

Edited by Bombadil, 22 May 2013 - 08:15 PM.

[valkyrie]

Bombadil, on 22 May 2013 - 08:10 PM, said:

In regards to some of you thinking it was distasteful. Wow, seems KONG has the moral superiority over NGNG. Look, we are an adult podcast, and if you can't handle seeing BB in a catsuit that reveals nothing on our FB page, then don't come to our FB page. It's like Janet Jackson's wardrobe malfunction all over again, except without the malfunction. Childish IMO.

Wow, way to completely and utterly miss the entire point.

[Greglomaniac]

Why can't we all just get along in this thread?

Edited by KingGreggules, 22 May 2013 - 08:46 PM.

[xZaOx]

LRMS.

[Bombadil]

valkyrie, on 22 May 2013 - 08:26 PM, said:

Wow, way to completely and utterly miss the entire point.

Says the pot to the kettle. (I winked so that you know it's all in good fun.)

[Rather Dashing]

IS IT, TOM? SHIRLEY YOU JEST. NAY, IT IS ALL BUT AN ACT.

[valkyrie]

Bombadil, on 22 May 2013 - 08:34 PM, said:

Says the pot to the kettle. (I winked so that you know it's all in good fun.)

Tabrias put my whole argument in a better way than I could - it's not that it's "adult", it's that it's a bit immature, and you can't seriously have thought people wouldn't think that despite the constant "unit" jokes you make on your podcast (which I'm sure some people also find immature).

Frankly, I think your podcast is having an identity crisis. On one hand you still treat it like it's just a few guys hanging out, drinking beers, and having a podcast where you can be silly and a bit immature - just like Kong Kast. One the other, you've courted PGI/IGP and Catalyst so well they're fluffing you up to be the "official" face of MWO (because god knows their in-house PR is dreadful). The two concepts are clashing, and it shows in the amount of criticism you receive now. You can claim they're separate all you want, but to the average viewer/listener, it's all one and the same. If -I- didn't bother checking to see what was "sanctioned" and what wasn't by PGI, do you really think the average Joe will? Just a thought.

Edited by valkyrie, 22 May 2013 - 08:45 PM.

[Bombadil]

valkyrie, on 22 May 2013 - 08:42 PM, said:

Tabrias put my whole argument in a better way than I could - it's not that it's "adult", it's that it's a bit immature, and you can't seriously have thought people wouldn't think that despite the constant "unit" jokes you make on your podcast (which I'm sure some people also find immature).

Frankly, I think your podcast is having an identity crisis. On one hand you still treat it like it's just a few guys hanging out, drinking beers, and having a podcast where you can be silly and a bit immature - just like Kong Kast. One the other, you've courted PGI/IGP and Catalyst so well they're fluffing you up to be the "official" face of MWO (because god knows their in-house PR is dreadful). The two concepts are clashing, and it shows in the amount of criticism you receive now. Just a thought.

And as they say, opinions are like arse holes, everyone has one...

You're entitled to yours, and I don't agree. I can live with that, can you?

Edited by Bombadil, 22 May 2013 - 08:46 PM.

[xZaOx]

Is MWO so bad right now, that we are actually arguing about this? I Also think we need a new sub forum generated specifically for BB Wolfe in Catsuit complaints/discussions. This topic is too specific for the audio/video section and should be moved.

Edited by xZaOx, 22 May 2013 - 08:47 PM.

[LaserAngel]

Bombadil, on 22 May 2013 - 08:10 PM, said:

And finally, I am very happy that there are other MW/MWO podcasts out there, in fact we've had some on our show and were more than happy to promote their endeavors. It will never be an NGNG vs. another podcasts thing to me, because I am happy to see the community grow no matter who is helping that happen, and it's great to have multiple viewpoints and opinions out there. I wish Kong Kast much success, and have had many positive conversations with other members of your community.

Bombadil, on 22 May 2013 - 08:34 PM, said:

Says the pot to the kettle. (I winked so that you know it's all in good fun.)

Frankly, all I ever wanted to do was to make a podcast with my friends who also happen to be from 4chan and play BT/MW:O. It's a bit more permanent and involved in the community. Does that sound familiar?

Still, I hope you understand that the situation I operate under is more akin to an athenian democracy. There is not any rank that I can pull, seriously people will just walk away and stop listening to me if I even attempt this. On top of the already existing culture of ignoring people that want attention by using names. We run the line there since our in-game name is going to be plastered all over in Ventrilo or our screen shots from MW: O. It's unavoidable there.

I've been to many NGNG recordings and have heard your crew go on at length of how "everyone" is critical of you and your podcast. I even did so last week in discussing with Phil about Kong Kast's own listener feedback and attempting to address that in a later episode. I'm experiencing what you are and went into detail about it with Phil after Mechs, Devs, and Beer and with my fellow podcast members.

Edited by LaserAngel, 22 May 2013 - 08:48 PM.

[valkyrie]

Bombadil, on 22 May 2013 - 08:44 PM, said:

And as they say, opinions are like arse holes, everyone has one...

You're entitled to yours, and I don't agree. I can live with that, can you?

I'm fine with that. But bear in mind this entire thing could've been defused by just explaining what actually went down. I'd probably have apologized, still would've said something about how it looked at first glance, and that's that, but frankly the "chump" and "shame on you" comments were really uncalled for given the root cause being a misunderstanding.

Edited by valkyrie, 22 May 2013 - 08:51 PM.

[Bombadil]

LaserAngel, on 22 May 2013 - 08:47 PM, said:

Frankly, all I ever wanted to do was to make a podcast with my friends who also happen to be from 4chan and play BT/MW:O. It's a bit more permanent and involved in the community. Does that sound familiar?

Still, I hope you understand that the situation I operate under is more akin to an athenian democracy. There is not any rank that I can pull, seriously people will just walk away and stop listening to me if I even attempt this. On top of the already existing culture of ignoring people that want attention by using names. We run the line there since our in-game name is going to be plastered all over in Ventrilo or our screen shots from MW: O. It's unavoidable there.

I've been to many NGNG recordings and have heard your crew go on at length of how "everyone" is critical of you and your podcast. I even did so last week in discussing with Phil about Kong Kast's own listener feedback and attempting to address that in a later episode. I'm experiencing what you are and went into detail about it with Phil after Mechs, Devs, and Beer and with my fellow podcast members.

Not sure if you're being serious or if that's just another lure in the water, but I'm not sure what you mean by our crew going on at length on how "everyone" is critical of us and our podcast. That's news to me, and our daily growth and positive feedback far exceeds the occasional negative comments. We understand that as we grow and are under the spotlight more, we're naturally going to get the haters and naysayers, just part of life.

You can't please everyone, and we're not for everybody, and that's probably more so in regards to the 4Chan community. Thankfully, they have the Kong Kast to meet their needs.

But I have seen and heard you at our podcasts, and you are one of the "positive conversations" I've had with other members of your community that I spoke of. Hope that doesn't tarnish your rep.

valkyrie, on 22 May 2013 - 08:50 PM, said:

I'm fine with that. But bear in mind this entire thing could've been defused by just explaining what actually went down. I'd probably have apologized, still would've said something about how it looked at first glance, and that's that, but frankly the "chump" and "shame on you" comments were really uncalled for given the root cause being a misunderstanding.

Nah, the root was you saying things that were blatantly untrue. The rest was just a result of that.

[LaserAngel]

Bombadil, on 22 May 2013 - 09:02 PM, said:

Not sure if you're being serious or if that's just another lure in the water, but I'm not sure what you mean by our crew going on at length on how "everyone" is critical of us and our podcast. That's news to me, and our daily growth and positive feedback far exceeds the occasional negative comments. We understand that as we grow and are under the spotlight more, we're naturally going to get the haters and naysayers, just part of life.

You can't please everyone, and we're not for everybody, and that's probably more so in regards to the 4Chan community. Thankfully, they have the Kong Kast to meet their needs.

But I have seen and heard you at our podcasts, and you are one of the "positive conversations" I've had with other members of your community that I spoke of. Hope that doesn't tarnish your rep.

Perhaps I was painting too broad a brush by using "everyone" earlier. Still, Phil has consistently mentioned that people are critical of NGNG and yes you can't please everyone. We even discussed it last week after MDB and I found his experience to be insightful and helpful for me.

It's a similar situation that I'm starting to encounter starting just last week with our listener feedback. Believe me, I was amazed we had listeners.

I appreciate the your concern about my reputation within my group but it really isn't necessary.

[valkyrie]

Bombadil, on 22 May 2013 - 09:02 PM, said:

Nah, the root was you saying things that were blatantly untrue. The rest was just a result of that.

Again, given that all I had to go on was this:



I maintain that my analysis was pretty reasonable given the circumstances. There's very little there that would suggest either of us was correct at first glance. You cleared the air, gave an explanation, I admitted I was wrong...and you still insulted me (which is against the rules of this forum I might add), insist I should be shamed and say that I intentionally lied.

Alrighty then, whatever floats your boat. I'll leave the verdict to the jury and not the prosecutor at this point.