20 replies to this topic

[Zarvis]

Hi guys. I was having fun with the default Champion Dragon 5N and was wondering if I could do something with it. The result is AC10 + Dual PPCs.[/color]

AC 10
2 PPC
FF armor
Endo
DHS
XL 300 engine
Max armor (402)
Speed: 81kph without speed tweak
0.2 ton dead weight

I think the principal role of Dragon is to be "a mech with medium's speed and heavy's firepower, at decent range." It is also one of mechs that can make a good use of XL engines because it has huge center torso which absorbs all the damage. I have played like 4 hours with this dragon and only died 2 times by side torso engine exploding from using XL engine.[/color]

What's great about Dragon 5N, is that it has all the weapons in arms, except one missile slot. You can aim more precisely and people will be hardly bothered to shoot your tiny arms off when they have huge CT to shoot at. [/color]

I have found that Dragon works best as a medium range fire support. With its mobility, you can be anywhere at anytime you want. Of course you can build a good brawler build with Flame, with AC20 and mlas, becoming like a hunchback without hunch.[/color]

The bad side of this build is that if any of your body parts gets blown up, you are in a serious problem.[/color]

CT: Dead
LT: Dead
RT:Dead
LA: 2 PPC lost
RA: AC 10 lost

So that's it. What do you guys think about it? Do you have any good builds in your mind?

Edited by Zarvis, 14 May 2013 - 08:24 AM.

[Derpinator]

Nice load out that might work with any dragon though I prefer using ppc's on either the 2n or 1C, why?
The hard point is located higher meaning you can easily shoot from beneath cover. though your load out sounds fun, seems like a pain to deal with fast mechs who want to hug you though.

[Zarvis]

Yeah the higher firing points of other dragon variants might come handy when you are poptarting. I thought fast mechs that get closer within the minimum firing range of 2 PPCs will be a big problem too, but in practice you are fast enough (89kph) to maintain enough distance from them and also the Alpha damage from this loadout if aimed well, can strip off their armor and deal some internal damage in one shot.

[Birthday Truck]

That's an interesting build, one I've thought about myself. It's more or less an alternative to the 2xLL and 1xGauss Champion 5N mech that's so successful

I would drop just enough armor to make that 1 ton available, and add a heat sink or another ton of AC/10 ammo. Free weight isn't optimal.

A build I'm toying around with drops the PPC's for LL, so there is some tonnage to play with two streaks in the CT or a pair of srm4's to handle short ranges. The Dragon shouldn't really be brawling, until collisions come back in. If you weren't in closed beta, the Dragon's huge CT actually works as a bowling ball and has a higher chance of knockdown.

EDIT: The build I'm toying around with is a 1N with 2 missile hardpoints.

Edited by Birthday Truck, 15 May 2013 - 11:13 AM.

[Modo44]

Why not take out some leg armor, and use a slightly bigger engine/one more heatsink?

[Spheroid]

How about a 265XL with 2xPPC and Gauss with 30 rounds?

[Zarvis]

Thank you for your opinion guys! The problem with this build is that there is no free critical slot left. You can not have additional ammo or heatsink. The ammount of the AC 10 ammo (30) may not be enough, but actually it can sometimes last an extended match if you make every shot count.

Yes. Free weight is not optimal. However free critical slots are not optimal either if you look at that way. This build effectively uses every critical slots available, unlike other many builds which have about 7 to 10 unused critical slots. Plus, the Hunchback Laserback build which uses 9 medium laser, and which was used by Koreanese, one of the best players, to win the tournament, does have a free weight of about 0.6 tons.

Edited by Zarvis, 15 May 2013 - 11:11 PM.

[Modo44]

I see your idea. I was talking about just a bit more speed with less armor, especially on the rarely hit legs: DRG-5N

Spheroid, on 15 May 2013 - 10:50 PM, said:

How about a 265XL with 2xPPC and Gauss with 30 rounds?

Why would you make a slow Dragon? Just get a Cataphract.

[Derpinator]

Spheroid, on 15 May 2013 - 10:50 PM, said:

How about a 265XL with 2xPPC and Gauss with 30 rounds?

you can run a dragon with a 300 XL engine with gauss(30), ER PPC and 3 med lasers, works better imo.

[Red Line Pilot]

That GR, PPC, 3ML looks like a nice build, be it a bit slow for a dragon.

Don't you like fast dragons with 'only' a 300XL? I usually put in a 325, 350 or max 360.

Also, are AC10's worth taking atm, isn't a PPC better by definition?

[Zarvis]

Acutally, yeah. For example you can take 3PPCs in Flame and take 330XL, hitting 98kph with speed tweak. The only trade off of doing so will be losing some heat efficiency and close range fighting capability, but nonetheless 3 PPC build is just better, with PPC being most OP weapon of the time.

[Regrets]

Honestly, I don't really like ballistics on mechs this small unless you are packing AC20s which have ridiculous punch for the tonnage. I really don't think AC10 is worth the tonnage, you can pick up a lot more firepower with less weight imo. It's kind of tough because obvious an AC5/AC2 are not worth it. I think an UAC5 would pack more firepower than the AC10 tbh. I think if I were to pilot this mech it would be something like this, holding some of your ideas but definitely more capability to brawl.

275STD 3 MG SRM6 2 PPC
http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=23&l=9bc06a79393b99f65b3f667fe85a90da2b383f43

Or this super cheesy no right side armor build with SRM6 STD300 2 PPC and A LOT OF DHS
http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=23&l=37aed4a1992d3b22e8bcbc67a71715ed21b1ba9e

300xl 13DHS 2 PPC UAC5 lot of ammo
Probably closest to the original
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c6bef9f40615376

I really just think an SRM6 is going to get the job done ton for ton better than the AC10. Obv the 1N is a better mech for this kind of build since you can put 2SRM4 but i guess the PPC tracking will be better on the 5N so its a wash.

Probably the no armor abuse build is the best imo. Be prepared if you run this, people will make you a target when your right arm starts to fly apart. They will not realize it is by design and think your whole mech is weak, focus firing you...

Edited by Regrets, 17 May 2013 - 11:49 AM.

[knight-of-ni]

I almost went the route of dual PPC's and an AC/10, but then I discovered triple ac/2's and a boat load of ammo work far better for me than any other configuration. Come. Step into my line of fire. I triple autocannon-dare you.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f30812cd880e994

I use a dual PPC build for my 1C, however.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f30812cd880e994

[zudukai]

knnniggett, on 17 May 2013 - 11:53 AM, said:

I use a dual PPC build for my 1C, however.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f30812cd880e994

that's an X-5 with two ppc's lol

[SchwarzerPeter]

The Dragon should never run under an XL 300 (ok maybe speed tweek with an smaller engine, but ~80+ kmh is a must).
It has a huge CT and even with torso twist you cant protect the whole CT. So allocate as much armor as is posible from the rear to the front.

If you run that fast not even a light is able to get behind you. And you even can stay behind an slow assault

The AC10 is a very decent gun. It covers quite a range, fires way faster than the gauss and it wont explode and damage your rear. And a 10 damage shot is still enough to duck and cover.

The AC5 dosent fire fast enough so you often only hit once if you dive between cover. A single UAC5 jams way to often.

[Cubivorre]

Red Line Pilot, on 17 May 2013 - 05:16 AM, said:

That GR, PPC, 3ML looks like a nice build, be it a bit slow for a dragon.

Don't you like fast dragons with 'only' a 300XL? I usually put in a 325, 350 or max 360.

Also, are AC10's worth taking atm, isn't a PPC better by definition?

My Flame and I can both assure you - an XL300 is enough and an AC/10 is completely worth taking atm.

[knight-of-ni]

Finally finished mastering all the non-hero Dragons. Out of the three, the only one I didn't care for was the 1N. It seemed to be a Jack of all trades, but a master of none.

zudukai, on 20 May 2013 - 10:26 PM, said:

that's an X-5 with two ppc's lol

Eh, sorry. Had too many tabs open. Try this:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9efa9018ef5361b

[Snowcrow]

Cubivorre, on 20 May 2013 - 11:49 PM, said:

My Flame and I can both assure you - an XL300 is enough and an AC/10 is completely worth taking atm.

I tried an ac/10, 2 large lasers and an xl 320 engine today. It's a lot of fun. And I like that both the ac10 and Large laser have the same effective range.
heat efficiency is 1.43 and I have 4 tons of ammo... which is too much really, but I never overheat either so I don't need any more heat sinks. Saving up for an xl 330.

Edited by Snowcrow, 21 May 2013 - 05:33 AM.

[NRP]

Sounds like a fun build, especially for the larger maps.

[Zen Hachetaki]

Snowcrow, on 21 May 2013 - 05:18 AM, said:

I tried an ac/10, 2 large lasers and an xl 320 engine today. It's a lot of fun. And I like that both the ac10 and Large laser have the same effective range.
heat efficiency is 1.43 and I have 4 tons of ammo... which is too much really, but I never overheat either so I don't need any more heat sinks. Saving up for an xl 330.

Snowcrow - comment/question only about engine sizes - may i ask why a 330? Optimal engine sizes for overall efficiency are in groups of 25 as each 25 points allows you to hide another heat sink for free. Is there a consideration for either the 330 or 320 you are using I am unaware of? This is why most folks talk about 300/325/350 or pure max 360 only. I have not heard much of using the other sizes. Is it worth the trade offs? Especially for the 320?