85 replies to this topic

[Chavette]

Because if they are, I won't bother making a long post/video about it.


Its so bad, I'm at the point of asking why is there a crosshair in the game, if it doesn't matter if I actually hit the guy.



A kind mechwarrior made my point visualized. Its just as bad, or even worse in some matches for about all the people I know.




If anyone is still in denial, we can keep the vids rolling, as much as you want.

My own description of the problem:
Your position of shooting is rolled back to the position you were minus your ping. So if my ping is 150ms, I pop from behind a building, and shoot, I can visually connect but not register if the enemy hasn't been in sight for 150ms+. However, even after I went back in cover, I can shoot, the projectile will smash in the building visually, but it will connect with the guy if I havent been in cover for 150ms plus when I press the button.

I think it could be fixed. The client knows your ping too, not just the server. The client could make the same calculation the server does, so it wouldn't need the server to do it for it(no firing delay). The visual of the hit would then smash into buildings, sometime even if you are out of cover, and go through building and hit people if you connected. Not too elegant but your aim and hit rate would be explained.

Edited by Chavette, 18 May 2013 - 01:17 PM.

[Nick Drezary]

It works fine on the long distance, but in the brawl it screws up way too much(especially versus mediums for some reason )

[Chavette]

I think it has to do with the movement of the player who's shooting, though its kind of a stab in the dark.

[Penance]

Seems as good a place to post this as any: After a few months away from the game, I never realized how bad the Atlas head hitbox is. I like the Atlas, my favorite IS assault by far, so this effects me also, but it is really small. just going into the testing grounds and hitting between the eyes doesn't count. I know it probably has one of the most pronounced faces/heads in the game, but it should be looked at & balanced w/ more armor...also pressing enter on the forums won't let me paragraph.

[AntharPrime]

Penance, on 15 May 2013 - 03:29 PM, said:

Seems as good a place to post this as any: After a few months away from the game, I never realized how bad the Atlas head hitbox is. I like the Atlas, my favorite IS assault by far, so this effects me also, but it is really small. just going into the testing grounds and hitting between the eyes doesn't count. I know it probably has one of the most pronounced faces/heads in the game, but it should be looked at & balanced w/ more armor...also pressing enter on the forums won't let me paragraph.

Left eye is the Atlas hitbox, it takes a bit of practice but you can hit it.

[l33tworks]

I wouldn't say catastrophic. Its probably too nice a word. Say more than HALF. To a player who doesn't have this issue, Imagine playing if they doubled all weapons heat output, and halved its rate of fire, just for you, and then even more worse than that because if your first shot doesn't miss the enemy will die sooner than if it does.

I still have to lead my shots, and they still end up not registering damage even when they hit on my end. And i can assure you, hit detection doesn't work fine "long distance" for me either, so its not just an issue of brawling.

The sad thing is I'm not even sure if most people (including PGI) in US or Canada are aware problems exists because for them it mostly may not?

Even if PGI were to introduce artificial lag for testing purposes when implementing netcode fixes, hit detection would work flawlessly because of the state rewind. The problem is in the real world ping fluctuates, and they don't seem to compensate for packet loss.

This is from a few days ago. Had a very steady 230 ping this time.

at 00:02. Direct hit. NO damage registered
at 00:12 Direct hit. Damage registered
at 00:19 Direct hit. NO damage registered
at 00:26 Direct hit. Damage registered
at 00:32 Direct hit. NO damage registered
at 00:37 Direct Hit. Damage registered
at 00:40 Direct hit. Damage registered
at 00:47 Direct hit. NO damage registered
at 00:51 Direct hit. NO damage registered




Out of a total sample of 9 Alpha shots, ALL direct hits, 4 of them registered and 5 did not.

I am would hazard a guess the same shots taken by a Americas player, likely all would all register.

I would love to hear if other people are having similar expriences to me and have video footage.

I also wonder what PGis take on the matter is and if they are aware of it,

Edited by l33tworks, 16 May 2013 - 02:10 AM.

[Lugh]

They don't all register for american players either....it's frustrating.

[Rushin Roulette]

l33tworks, on 16 May 2013 - 02:09 AM, said:

at 00:02. Direct hit. NO damage registered
at 00:12 Direct hit. Damage registered
at 00:19 Direct hit. NO damage registered
at 00:26 Direct hit. Damage registered
at 00:32 Direct hit. NO damage registered
at 00:37 Direct Hit. Damage registered
at 00:40 Direct hit. Damage registered
at 00:47 Direct hit. NO damage registered
at 00:51 Direct hit. NO damage registered

Umm... how did you know that 50% of the hits were not registering? You overheated on just about every single shot in your video which means that the crosshair and the damage display would go down as well (with that also your confirmation if the shots were registering or not).

The only shot where you did not shut down due to overheating was at 00:32 where you were shooting a left side mounted PPC at the left side of a Centurion moving to the right of your view. That did not look like a direct hit to me, it looked more like the PPC actually missed the mech, but there was still an explosion for some strange reason.

[l33tworks]

Lugh, on 16 May 2013 - 02:12 AM, said:

They don't all register for american players either....it's frustrating.

Yea but surely its not as bad? The reason i say that is because I seemed to be doing a lot better before the state rewind, relatively speaking. Sure I may have missed more, but other people missed a butt load more. Now thats changed.

Each shot I take I have to concentrate, aim, tell myself "be good", take the risk to fire, Boom it hits, and the enemy is untouched a huge scary amount of the time.

I asked some people of teamspeak when observing me to tell me where a shot I've landed on my screen went on theirs, and they said it went behind the enemy. So I learned to shoot a bit ahead. The next time leading the same ammount is too much.

Its hard enough hitting when moving with ballistics in a 0 ping in this game, having to compensate for an ever changing unknown amount on top of it is just ridiculous.

Edited by l33tworks, 16 May 2013 - 02:33 AM.

[l33tworks]

Rushin Roulette, on 16 May 2013 - 02:26 AM, said:

Umm... how did you know that 50% of the hits were not registering? You overheated on just about every single shot in your video which means that the crosshair and the damage display would go down as well (with that also your confirmation if the shots were registering or not).

The only shot where you did not shut down due to overheating was at 00:32 where you were shooting a left side mounted PPC at the left side of a Centurion moving to the right of your view. That did not look like a direct hit to me, it looked more like the PPC actually missed the mech, but there was still an explosion for some strange reason.

Even if you shutdown after a shot, the cross-hair still goes red before the shutdown if you hit. You can see this in the same video seconds apart to the ones that don't register. Its not hard to spot. I also know because the mech I am shooting at should loose that section or be rubble, but its not.


The reason there was an explosion on the shot at 00;32 is because that was a direct hit, and not by coincidence "for some strange reason" lol, which by the way was on the right side of the centurion, not the left. Specifically the right arm.
If you know what its like you can see by my aim when i fire I'm actually doing my best to land shots.

Edited by l33tworks, 16 May 2013 - 02:48 AM.

[SmokinDave73]

The hit registration for balistics especially AC/20's is horrible at the moment I have shot many times into mechs that have no armour left on there core's or side torso's and it will not register any damage at all. It is very frustrating to see after the ballistic's state rewind is in because now I know my shots are hitting enemy's square on but no damage is registering at all. I really hope PGI is aware of how bad hit registration on most mech's because in a brawl when i finally get into one(rare these days) I dont want to have a match of skill come down to luck...

Edited by SmokinDave73, 16 May 2013 - 02:46 AM.

[Egomane]

l33tworks, on 16 May 2013 - 02:09 AM, said:

at 00:02. Direct hit. NO damage registered

Agreed! Seems like a hit. But it is hard to confirm, because you went into shutdown so fast. Even frame by frame it is hard to tell, if you really did no damage or if there simply was no time to render the red hit confirmation.

l33tworks, on 16 May 2013 - 02:09 AM, said:

at 00:12 Direct hit. Damage registered
at 00:19 Direct hit. NO damage registered

Disagree! A clear miss!

l33tworks, on 16 May 2013 - 02:09 AM, said:

at 00:26 Direct hit. Damage registered
at 00:32 Direct hit. NO damage registered

Again a missed shot. The shot seems to have connected for there is an explosion effect, but it went somewhat right from the right arm.

l33tworks, on 16 May 2013 - 02:09 AM, said:

at 00:37 Direct Hit. Damage registered
at 00:40 Direct hit. Damage registered
at 00:47 Direct hit. NO damage registered

This one is again hard to tell. When you pulled the trigger it looks like you should miss the target, but the shot is landing with an explosion effect right in the middle.

l33tworks, on 16 May 2013 - 02:09 AM, said:

at 00:51 Direct hit. NO damage registered

Again a clear miss. Shot went left from the target. Explosion is clearly behind it.

Sorry, to disapoint you, but this makes two hard to tell shots and three clear misses.

[l33tworks]

Egomane, on 16 May 2013 - 02:45 AM, said:

Agreed! Seems like a hit. But it is hard to confirm, because you went into shutdown so fast. Even frame by frame it is hard to tell, if you really did no damage or if there simply was no time to render the red hit confirmation.


Disagree! A clear miss!


Again a missed shot. The shot seems to have connected for there is an explosion effect, but it went somewhat right from the right arm.

[/b]
This one is again hard to tell. When you pulled the trigger it looks like you should miss the target, but the shot is landing with an explosion effect right in the middle.


Again a clear miss. Shot went left from the target. Explosion is clearly behind it.

Sorry, to disapoint you, but this makes two hard to tell shots and three clear misses.

Lol I'm guessing your not kidding?

At 00;02. Its not hard to tell. Thats 4 ER ppcs hiting a raven. That should have ripped the hand off the raven if in fact damage did register. So its confirmed it did not. In addition, the reticle does in fact still flash red, even if you do shutdown. It did not.

At :00:19. If that was a miss why is there a PPC explosion mid air?

Where would you have aimed? Trust me its not the same when you are watching a video over youtube and when you are playing. Its easy to think I didn't aim right or time it right by watching a video. But, if you were playing you'd be thinking "wtf did I do wrong?"

At 00:47. Same thing. That amount of aiming ahead is getting close to the point where you risk shoot TOO FAR in front of the mech instead of behind it. In that case though, I believe I missed because the shot went behind as far as the server was concerned, if it even saw a shot.

What Im saying is it is completely out of my hands if I hit or miss because there is nowhere to better myself. You can say aim a little ahead a little more or a little less, but it gets you nowhere because It changes all the time. Al this is directly as a result of netcode problems.
The only reason these problems are happening is because of netcode. Netcode treats some worse than others.

At 00:51. Again, why the explosion the shots missed on my end?

Edited by l33tworks, 16 May 2013 - 03:14 AM.

[Rushin Roulette]

OK... if you dont beleive what others tell you, then make another video... but please dont make another of these terribad shutdown orgies like the one you posted above.

Get yourself a better build. Much more heatsinks and make the doubble would be good fro a start and try chainfiring your PPCs instead of alpha shooting them when you are already about to shut down. That way we can actually see what you are trying to show us instead of Oh look hes going to alpha his PPCs again... oh look the screen turned read, his mech looked down and the HUD dissapeared... again.

And this was on a cold map. Id hate to see how you play on Caustic or Tourmaline.

I myself have no problems hitting with PPCs. If a PPC misses I know that it was because my aim was off, not because my mech was par boiling the pilot.

[Egomane]

No I am not kidding. Those shots missed clearly.

As I wrote, I watched the video frame by frame to analyze those shots. There is no margin of error. There is no "difference between watching a video and playing the game", I need to account for, as I did not simply "watch". I noticed the timing of your shots, the target movements and the flight path of the shots you made. I also took note of where on the screen the explosion effects are displayed.

I'm sorry, but you are the victim of a graphical bug and not of shots that fail to register on target. While "watching" the video, this is hard to tell, but when analyzing it deeper it becomes evident.

[John MatriX82]

Again, the position of your mech AND your aiming spot are de-syncronized from those that the server knows. This happens since 16th of April patch. Even lasers suffer this trouble, before they didn't.

In few words, you think to have succesfully climbed out of cover (as you see it in your client), you aim, shoot and no shots are registered. Because the server is updated with some delay and your shots are accounted to hit the cover you thought to be out of.. but you didn't for the server.

The same happens when aiming. If you make last-minute adjustements on the crosshair and shoot, you'll end up with no hit being registered or hitting the previous spot you were aiming to. You'll see your shots graphically hitting the desired spot but no hit is awarded or instead of headshotting your target, you'll hit the CT you were aiming at a few instants before.
Try to lead targets by placing the crosshair in front of them and timing the shots (keeping a steady aim on a fixed spot of the map) and magically all the hits will enter.

The same whenever you get out of a cover. wait a little longer when you've fixed your crosshair on the target and the shots will all enter, the same when jumping: always shoot when you reach the jump apex or right after you begin to fall down (this ensures that the server "detects" that you are out of the cover), again, the shots will magically hit.

I know it's against the rules of online gaming (I am faster, I hit you before you can) but after 16th of April we are all dealing with this "positional desynchronization". Run your tests then hammer the support with this issue!

[Hammer Hands]

Going to toss my pennies into this thread for simple observatory purposes. I have noticed a significant number of shots not registering at all on mechs (specifically lights) that are within 120m. Anything outside I am getting decent registery of htis and damage, inside it is a total crap shoot.

[karoushi]

The hitboxes in this game almost make me angry.

Whoever did the hitboxes for the models needs to clean them up and stop being lazy, 'nuff said.

Actually WORK for and DESERVE the money you get paid, please devs, DO NOT pull a blizzard and just sit around collecting money because eventually, sure you might be rich but all the real gamers will hate your guts.

I wouldn't even waste a good fictional walking stick on figuratively beating Blizzard into submission.

They canned Starcraft: Ghost and I have and never will forgive them for it, didn't touch Warcraft 3 and haven't touched any of their games since.

I am not afraid to boycott those who deserve it.

Edited by karoushi, 16 May 2013 - 06:58 AM.

[Dude42]

I have the opposite problem(altho I do experience that issue as well, its just less annoying to have to fire another shot than to die) in that I get damaged by projectiles that clearly missed me, sometimes by wide margins. Even laser beams that are shooting off into space about 20m to my right as I circle damage me. And my ping is not terrible, its steady ~85ms.

Edited by Dude42, 16 May 2013 - 10:49 AM.

[Deathlike]

Edit: Never mind, I was thinking of a different thread.

From what I see, you made like 2 hits, and the rest are actual misses. This is not a problem with the game, but your inaccuracy.

l33tworks, on 16 May 2013 - 02:09 AM, said:

I wouldn't say catastrophic. Its probably too nice a word. Say more than HALF. To a player who doesn't have this issue, Imagine playing if they doubled all weapons heat output, and halved its rate of fire, just for you, and then even more worse than that because if your first shot doesn't miss the enemy will die sooner than if it does.

I still have to lead my shots, and they still end up not registering damage even when they hit on my end. And i can assure you, hit detection doesn't work fine "long distance" for me either, so its not just an issue of brawling.

The sad thing is I'm not even sure if most people (including PGI) in US or Canada are aware problems exists because for them it mostly may not?

Even if PGI were to introduce artificial lag for testing purposes when implementing netcode fixes, hit detection would work flawlessly because of the state rewind. The problem is in the real world ping fluctuates, and they don't seem to compensate for packet loss.

This is from a few days ago. Had a very steady 230 ping this time.

at 00:02. Direct hit. NO damage registered
at 00:12 Direct hit. Damage registered
at 00:19 Direct hit. NO damage registered
at 00:26 Direct hit. Damage registered
at 00:32 Direct hit. NO damage registered
at 00:37 Direct Hit. Damage registered
at 00:40 Direct hit. Damage registered
at 00:47 Direct hit. NO damage registered
at 00:51 Direct hit. NO damage registered




Out of a total sample of 9 Alpha shots, ALL direct hits, 4 of them registered and 5 did not.

I am would hazard a guess the same shots taken by a Americas player, likely all would all register.

I would love to hear if other people are having similar expriences to me and have video footage.

I also wonder what PGis take on the matter is and if they are aware of it,

:02 - overshot
:19 - a tad too far to the left
:32 - you hit the snowpile on the left side
:47 - overshot the Cent's arm by oh so little
:51 - overshot the Cent's arm by a bit more than :47

Edited by Deathlike, 16 May 2013 - 11:04 AM.