85 replies to this topic

[Parliment]

Phantom mechs ...........

[GrimlockONE]

Hit detection has been poor at best over the last couple of weeks. Granted I only play MWO occasionally any more, but the times I do play I notice terrible ballistic hit detection. AC/20 shots not registering, PPC/ERPPC shots showing clear hits not registering, and SRMS are still bugged (albeit they still have not addressed that issue).

I have started playing Hawken, I know it is totally different from MWO and I appreciate each for what they are, but the reasons I have been enjoying Hawken so much is the balance. It does not have the variety of MWO which makes it easier to balance. It is also very polished after only coming out of alpha in the fall and closed beta in winter of laster year! I found the game in alpha more polished than MWO in open beta.

Being Honest I wish Meteor would have developed MWO and PGI Hawken as I love the MWO universe more so than Hawkens. I feel we would have a game that is more polished, more balanced, and overall in better shape. I will continue to play MWO but it has become a game that I can live without, but not one that I wish to live without.

[CarpetShark]

Same here, Dude42.

Steady 50-or-so ping. Cataphract misses my Jenner by a mile. I duck behind a building. A heartbeat later, his shot registers on me and my arm blows off. WTF?

Stuff like this is happening a lot lately and it's very frustrating. Dodging seems pointless now, since the only thing that seems to matter to the hit registration algorithm is what the shooter sees on his screen. Mine apparently doesn't count at all.

[MavRCK]

CarpetShark, on 16 May 2013 - 11:11 AM, said:

Same here, Dude42.

Steady 50-or-so ping. Cataphract misses my Jenner by a mile. I duck behind a building. A heartbeat later, his shot registers on me and my arm blows off. WTF?

Stuff like this is happening a lot lately and it's very frustrating. Dodging seems pointless now, since the only thing that seems to matter to the hit registration algorithm is what the shooter sees on his screen. Mine apparently doesn't count at all.

The netcode or hit registration or whatever is brutal - I have no idea where I should be aiming.. it seems variable...

I have low ping ~30ms. I get hit by enemies 2-5 seconds after I see them. I have full alpha'd with erppc gauss 45 point blank on a full red critted assault and not killed them.

Shrug. It's just really bad.

Edited by MavRCK, 16 May 2013 - 11:24 AM.

[Soy]

Chavette, on 15 May 2013 - 10:53 AM, said:

Because if they are, I won't bother making a long post/video about it.


Its so bad, I'm at the point of asking why is there a crosshair in the game, if it doesn't matter if I actually hit the guy.

I've stated over teamspeak at least a hundred times, this games hit reg and hit detection, even collision detection, is straight up from 2002 or something. Surreal fail. It's probably the worst aspect of this game. Yes I'm being absolutely serious as **** right now. It is easily the most archaic thing in MWO.

[Chavette]

There are some non-believers here... I guess I'll have to make a vid sometime, if someone else doesn't...

[Flapdrol]

It registers fine if it's not too busy, on primetime however it's pretty terrible sometimes.

[AntharPrime]

Egomane, on 16 May 2013 - 03:52 AM, said:

No I am not kidding. Those shots missed clearly.

As I wrote, I watched the video frame by frame to analyze those shots. There is no margin of error. There is no "difference between watching a video and playing the game", I need to account for, as I did not simply "watch". I noticed the timing of your shots, the target movements and the flight path of the shots you made. I also took note of where on the screen the explosion effects are displayed.

I'm sorry, but you are the victim of a graphical bug and not of shots that fail to register on target. While "watching" the video, this is hard to tell, but when analyzing it deeper it becomes evident.

I have to agree. The only shots that I saw that hit was one on the damaged Highlander and one on a Raven that walked straight out in front.

It could be a problem with hit registration, but I suspect that the jittery movements are not giving the weapons enough time to focus on the target. The smoother your mouse movements the better the weapons will track.

[ohtochooseaname]

With my 80 ms ping, I find that using the ERPPC in the arm of a spider is just about right for firing with the main crosshairs while battling a light, for whatever reason: I just ignore the arm reticle. Sometimes, it'll fire off into never never land, but register a hit, the paper doll flashes, and damage is taken.

[l33tworks]

Rushin Roulette, on 16 May 2013 - 03:49 AM, said:

OK... if you dont beleive what others tell you, then make another video... but please dont make another of these terribad shutdown orgies like the one you posted above.

Get yourself a better build. Much more heatsinks and make the doubble would be good fro a start and try chainfiring your PPCs instead of alpha shooting them when you are already about to shut down. That way we can actually see what you are trying to show us instead of Oh look hes going to alpha his PPCs again... oh look the screen turned read, his mech looked down and the HUD dissapeared... again.

And this was on a cold map. Id hate to see how you play on Caustic or Tourmaline.

I myself have no problems hitting with PPCs. If a PPC misses I know that it was because my aim was off, not because my mech was par boiling the pilot.

First of all the shutdowns have nothing to do with hit registration. I've proven this, and you should know this playing MWO.

As for getting more heatsinks, that mech in the video has 22 Double heatsinks, You cannot stack any more. Yes I know its shutdown rama but thats how I play. I expect to be able to kill the mech with that alpha but many times ti does not happen because the hit wont register.

i'll upload a video of chain firing and shutting down less

Deathlike, on 16 May 2013 - 10:57 AM, said:

Edit: Never mind, I was thinking of a different thread.

From what I see, you made like 2 hits, and the rest are actual misses. This is not a problem with the game, but your inaccuracy.




:02 - overshot
:19 - a tad too far to the left
:32 - you hit the snowpile on the left side
:47 - overshot the Cent's arm by oh so little
:51 - overshot the Cent's arm by a bit more than :47

As for the people saying they are misses. Yes they are as far as the server is concerned, but not from my eyes and my client, which is the very essence of what hit detection stands for.

I wont even bother continuing to explain this if you fail to understand such a simple and straightforward game mechanic that in MWO, massive sparks and flames being generated in the air next the enemy mech that just got hit is no coincidence and means the PPCs hit that mech on the user end. If they missed they would keep traveling past the enemy mech and create a totally different graphical effect in a totally different area in space at a totally different time i,e kick up snow in the ground they hit as they travel the enemy mech at a later time.

Are you guys aliens, that are new to the whole three dimensional concept? Because that would be the only thing that would explain how you can fail to grasp this.

Edited by l33tworks, 17 May 2013 - 06:20 AM.

[Rushin Roulette]

l33tworks, on 17 May 2013 - 06:14 AM, said:

Are you guys aliens, that are new to the whole three dimensional concept? Because that would be the only thing that would explain how you can fail to grasp this.

Yes we are obviously all aliens and you are the only human crunchy on these boards .

As for the video with chainfiring and less shutdowns. Im sure we are all looking forwards to it. It gets a little iffy to see you claim that you hit a mech when the cockpit is actually looking down at the time the hit should have connected most of the time, Half the time I wasnt even sure if you were shooting at all because you would power up and immediately just power down.

I would suggest looking through the videos linked in this thread for tips regarding aiming and shooting, as Koreanese explains pretty concicely, that only aiming withthe crosshair on the target alone doesnt always work and having a disciplined triggerfinger goes a long way in increasing your total damage output and the concentrated aiming at specific parts;

http://mwomercs.com/...ningtip-videos/

[l33tworks]

CarpetShark, on 16 May 2013 - 11:11 AM, said:

Same here, Dude42.

Steady 50-or-so ping. Cataphract misses my Jenner by a mile. I duck behind a building. A heartbeat later, his shot registers on me and my arm blows off. WTF?

Stuff like this is happening a lot lately and it's very frustrating. Dodging seems pointless now, since the only thing that seems to matter to the hit registration algorithm is what the shooter sees on his screen. Mine apparently doesn't count at all.

Dodging still works the same way it always has, its just that now it is more likely for a shot to register on server side than before state rewind.

Lol about blowing up behind cover. If you think you have it bad imagine with my ping. I am almost back home from battle, Have my socks off, ready to shower and suddenly explode from that raven that lasered me earlier in the day.

But you do realize this behavior is actually a good thing right? It means state rewind is working. The guy you took damage from, actually shot you fair and square. You were not in his view any longer than you saw you were, and he did not have any longer of a window to hit you when you were behind cover than he should have had. What happened is he hit you while you were still running to cover, and it took a while for the server to tell your client you have been hit and by that time you were in cover, but you actually got shot out of cover,

Edited by l33tworks, 17 May 2013 - 08:24 AM.

[l33tworks]

Rushin Roulette, on 17 May 2013 - 07:02 AM, said:

Yes we are obviously all aliens and you are the only human crunchy on these boards . As for the video with chainfiring and less shutdowns. Im sure we are all looking forwards to it. It gets a little iffy to see you claim that you hit a mech when the cockpit is actually looking down at the time the hit should have connected most of the time, Half the time I wasnt even sure if you were shooting at all because you would power up and immediately just power down. I would suggest looking through the videos linked in this thread for tips regarding aiming and shooting, as Koreanese explains pretty concicely, that only aiming withthe crosshair on the target alone doesnt always work and having a disciplined triggerfinger goes a long way in increasing your total damage output and the concentrated aiming at specific parts; http://mwomercs.com/...ningtip-videos/

If you didn't get the information you needed from the first video you likely wont from any number of videos? Its actually not a hard concept to grasp, and the one video is more than enough to understand the matter.

I am uploading the video, but lol, just wanted to let you guys know its pretty tediuis frapsing a match and uploading it to show the exact same point.

Anyway. At least this time I actually miss for real, a lot, so you can see the what the difference between a hit and a miss looks like client side because seemingly you guys cant tell.
There is also plenty of hits but no damage registration. And finnaly, its all Chain firing glory as requested

Please enjoy.

Edited by l33tworks, 17 May 2013 - 08:30 AM.

[l33tworks]

The First alpha of PPCS misses and hits the ground behind the enemy mech. Note the balls of snow being kicked up from the miss

The second alpha hits the enemy mech. Notice the sparks and flames from the hit. The first video was full only this.
Damage is registered, but interestingly even at 884m distance, 4 ERPPcs should have done more damage. That commando was smoking before that shot. I beleive he was at 64%




Anyway, the chain firing request. It wasn't a bad idea as the sample size if larger within the same time frame. A mixed bag of everything. This time I actually miss for real, a lot, so you can see the what the difference between a hit and a miss looks like client side.



Oh and I hope you guys aren't watching these videos in these forums windowed? They are 720p if you watch them in youtube
.

Edited by l33tworks, 17 May 2013 - 08:51 AM.

[Egomane]

I'm watching them downloaded. Youtube playback is to limited for detailed analyzisation.

Don't have time for it today, so I'll try to find some time for it tomorrow.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

l33tworks, on 17 May 2013 - 08:42 AM, said:

The second alpha hits the enemy mech. Notice the sparks and flames from the hit. The first video was full only this.
Damage is registered, but interestingly even at 884m distance, 4 ERPPcs should have done more damage. That commando was smoking before that shot. I beleive he was at 64%

You were leading, so your weaponry was converged at roughly 200m farther than the distance of the commando, so you likely only hit him with one or two blasts. Which is why I don't typicaly alpha separate sides at longer ranges.

EDIT: typo

Edited by JohanssenJr, 17 May 2013 - 09:02 AM.

[Majorfatboy]

I'm in southeast Wisconsin, average a ping of about 30, and I get this problem all the time. I've had multiple shots from My single Gauss rifle simply not register damage. I can see the shot discharge, strike the enemy mech, send sparks flying, shake the enemy, and not do a point of damage.

Long range, short range, sniping, brawling, anytime. It's really annoying when I'm desperately trying to kill some atlas before he kills me, and My shots simply don't register.....

[l33tworks]

JohanssenJr, on 17 May 2013 - 09:02 AM, said:

You were leading, so your weaponry was converged at roughly 200m farther than the distance of the commando, so you likely only hit him with one or two blasts. Which is why I don't typicaly alpha separate sides at longer ranges.

EDIT: typo

I think your missing the fundamental aspect of what hit detection is. Did you see any of the PPCs miss and keep travelling past the commando and hit the ground behind him? I've got the full uncompressed video and I can tell you they do not. Therefore, they should all have registered. If they do not, its a hit detection issue.

The convergence difference on those weapon locations between 880 and 1100 or whatever is not that great anyway. Is it possible it would be enough to cause some ppcs to miss and some to hit if you are unlucky enough JUST to skim the edge of the enemy mech with one side of PPCS but not other? Yup. Did they in that instance? No.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

l33tworks, on 17 May 2013 - 09:39 AM, said:

The convergence difference on those weapon locations between 880 and 1100 or whatever is not that great anyway. Is it possible it would be enough to cause some ppcs to miss and some to hit if you are unlucky enough JUST to skim the edge of the enemy mech with one side of PPCS but not other? Yup. Did they in that instance? No.

I think your missing the fundamental aspect of what hit detection is. Did you see any of the PPCs miss and keep travelling past the commando and hit the ground behind him? I've got the full uncompressed video and I can tell you they do not. Therefore, they should all have registered. If they do not, its a hit detection issue.

I saw your left side hit, and your right side miss. I watched the video 8 times.

Hit detection has always been wonky. I have a ping of 60 and still have incidents in your two videos. And looking back at video footage it's not my ping or HSR as much as it's them having a 200+ ping in a commando. I've also nailed an atlas with a 400+ ping and had no hit register, for me to die and 3 seconds later he randomly explodes and it says I killed him.

Just because he's there doesn't mean he's there. Welcome to server side hit detection with a poor netcode.

Dude42, on 16 May 2013 - 10:49 AM, said:

I have the opposite problem(altho I do experience that issue as well, its just less annoying to have to fire another shot than to die) in that I get damaged by projectiles that clearly missed me, sometimes by wide margins. Even laser beams that are shooting off into space about 20m to my right as I circle damage me. And my ping is not terrible, its steady ~85ms.

This is the problem I get. I'll be running from cover to cover, stop and turn to see Guass and PPC bolts wizz by, then I'll notice I'm missing an arm are all the armor on a side torso. I've even see lasers off to the sides 30-40 meters away that never touched me, but then all the sudden rip armor off something.

Edited by JohanssenJr, 17 May 2013 - 10:20 AM.

[Chavette]

l33tworks, on 17 May 2013 - 08:42 AM, said:

Anyway, the chain firing request. It wasn't a bad idea as the sample size if larger within the same time frame. A mixed bag of everything. This time I actually miss for real, a lot, so you can see the what the difference between a hit and a miss looks like client side.



Oh and I hope you guys aren't watching these videos in these forums windowed? They are 720p if you watch them in youtube
.

Excellent vid, just what I was looking for, I included it in OP. It is really as bad or even worse in some matches.