11 replies to this topic

[sab0t]

first off i'd like to say hello! i'm very new to MWO, and really looking forward to getting my frag on.

I am using a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro joystick, and after browsing the forums it seems this is a very popular choice for this game. Currently when I attempt to re-bind keys in the Options menu, however, the game seems to be completely ignoring all Joystick inputs.

- Other binds for Keyboard/Mouse work fine
- Drivers are working completely (the drivers detect the joystick and all key presses and otherwise, and Windows 7 detects the same).
- Re-installing the Drivers has not fixed the issue.

I didn't have too much time last night to attempt to get the binding working, but it seemed completely unresponsive so I'm at a bit of a loss as to what to do right now. Any advice, tips, links to other threads would be very helpful. I apologize if this already exists in another thread, I did a fair amount of searching and didn't find anything particularly relevant.



A few additional questions that would be really helpful...

- If you use this Joystick (or even any other type) do you use the vendor Drivers, or do you use the default Windows 7 Generic Drivers?

- Does MWO require some third-party tool / emulator for getting Joysticks to work?

- I have seen a ton of talk regarding config files (user.cfg for example). Is it necessary that I configure my game through this?

- Are the .cfg files how everyone edits their Joystick key binds?

- Are there settings in the .cfg files that I otherwise cannot customize in the In-game options menu?





Thank you a buttload in advance, any help anyone can provide would be really appreciated. I am so stoked to play this game, and even more stoked to do so while using a Joystick!

[Loc Nar]

Quote

- Does MWO require some third-party tool / emulator for getting Joysticks to work?

- I have seen a ton of talk regarding config files (user.cfg for example). Is it necessary that I configure my game through this?

- Are the .cfg files how everyone edits their Joystick key binds?

- Are there settings in the .cfg files that I otherwise cannot customize in the In-game options menu?

MWO does not req an emulator, but I feel it's the best way to do this since you ultimately have much finer control over the axes and don't get wiped out with each patch that hoses some part of analog support.

.cfg files are used for tuning sensitivity and deadzones, if you are not using an emulator or other third party software to achieve results.

Nothing in .cfg is holding up your process, and if you haven't made this file it might not even exist yet. If it does exist, it's empty until you put things in it.

C:\Games\Piranha Games\MechWarrior Online\user.cfg

Unsolicited opinion: as to using a normal stick (or any first-order or second-order control device using relative inputs) with MWO, be warned you are playing in hard mode since the game in engineered around zero-order inputs (ie mouse) and a first-order controller is objectively less controllable in a zero-order environment. I made my own stick to address this, built-in shortcoming, but as far as I know it the only one of it's kind. It is installed in my new mechpit, and it works quite well.

[sab0t]

Loc Nar, on 16 May 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

MWO does not req an emulator, but I feel it's the best way to do this since you ultimately have much finer control over the axes and don't get wiped out with each patch that hoses some part of analog support.

Thanks for the tip! I have not used an emulator previously, so I am wondering, would I have to configure other games that I use the Joystick for after I begin using it? Or is this something I simply turn on when I want to use it for a specific game

I'm currently not too sure how emulators work or how to use them, so apologies if this question doesn't make sense. That being said, I'll do some reading up on them and will probably be able to figure it out in short order.

Loc Nar, on 16 May 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

Unsolicited opinion: as to using a normal stick (or any first-order or second-order control device using relative inputs) with MWO, be warned you are playing in hard mode since the game in engineered around zero-order inputs (ie mouse) and a first-order controller is objectively less controllable in a zero-order environment. I made my own stick to address this, built-in shortcoming, but as far as I know it the only one of it's kind. It is installed in my new mechpit, and it works quite well.

Could you explain what you mean by zero-order / first-order / second-order? i'm unfamiliar with the terms and concept.

Did you use a non-custom joystick before you built your own? If so, did you ever run into any issues similar to what I described, that is, the game not recognizing any inputs or binds?

i gotta say as well, really nice work on building your own gear and setup. that is seriously awesome, what other games can you use it for? Interested in building a custom joystick for someone else?

[Oy of MidWorld]

Emulation is the way to go, ingame joystick support is awful. This is what i use:

http://atzitznet.dyn...use3/index.html

It takes a little tweaking, but instructions are on the site. The program is very precise, and works flawlessly in the background, taking little to no resources. It can get your joystick to do almost anything. It's also freeware.

Takes a lot of practice to get as good as with a mouse with a stick, but contrary to popular believe it can (and has) been done. Good muscle memory is priceless.

Edited by Oy of MidWorld, 16 May 2013 - 01:46 PM.

[Loc Nar]

Quote

Could you explain what you mean by zero-order / first-order / second-order? i'm unfamiliar with the terms and concept.

Did you use a non-custom joystick before you built your own? If so, did you ever run into any issues similar to what I described, that is, the game not recognizing any inputs or binds?

i gotta say as well, really nice work on building your own gear and setup. that is seriously awesome, what other games can you use it for? Interested in building a custom joystick for someone else?

I am working on an article right now called Controls Demystified(?), which I will also be posting here shortly. Without getting into the lengthy subject of controls, here is the short answer:

Control Types: -attributes (common examples; notes)

zero-order control - manipulates target position. (mouse, touchpad; single input action required)
first-order control - manipulates target velocity. (most joysticks, vehicle throttle; one or two actions required)
second-order control - manipulates target acceleration/rate of velocity change. (car steering wheel, ailerons of larger aircraft)
third-order control - notable lag between control input and perceived action (steering a tanker, trim systems)

There is a lot more to it, but I used to rant about this a lot using the wrong terminology, labeling input devices as 'relative' or 'absolute', although it still got the point across. Bottom line is a controller that is designed to manipulate velocity can not compete on even footing with a controller that manipulates position in an application designed around position, like MWO or any other shooter. It's the old mouse vs joystick debate, but without the cloud of confusion that normally obscures the underlying issue, which is zero-order vs first-order if it were being discussed by people that either make games or controls.

I have indeed used a normal joystick for MWO, although not before making my own. I already had enough information before my arrival to understand a normal joystick would be difficult, but was not able to sufficiently explain why until recently. If you ever come up with a Thrustmaster T16000M ($40), or Cougar (>$180), or Warthog (>$350) I have pretty advanced scripts (on the fly sensitivity changes, macros, shift layers, sensible button mapping...) that will get you right past all the perceived support issues that keep most of this shrouded in mystery.

I have not run into any the problems you are having, solely because I use TARGET capable sticks which easily bypass all the problems that are a non-starter for all but the most stubborn of stick users. It's not an accident I have these sticks, TARGET really puts them in a class all by themselves, and for raw games like MWO is there are no equals, although some of the emulators will allow at least a little of the much needed flexibility. No gamer's peripheral collection is complete without a T16000M since it only costs $40 and will allow you to almost instantly explore the finer permutations of control schemes and adaptations for any PC application. Mine was bought to scavenge the guts from for another cockpit project that also requires me to be able to grab the controls by the balls and force them to do what I want due to it's raw state of support. However, after realizing how useful it is on it's own to allow me to quickly establish any ideas I need to work out for games etc, that stick has earned it's permanent place in my toybox so I have to buy another one to hack with.

Other games my pit can be used for? Any really, since my whole setup is emulator based. I've played Hawken with it, but due to needing infinite travel in the x-axis (steering tied to reticlule movement = sad panda ), I have to give up zero-order (absolute inputs) on that axis or I'm not able to steer 360deg with the limited range of motion (>+/- 60deg) my stick can twist. Really bummed me out that the controls are like that, however I've cooked up a scheme since then that I need to try out which addresses this problem and might make it fun again. I am gearing up for Star Citizen (really chomping at the bit on this one) as well, which while the pit itself will be great for, I need to use a normal stick for piloting my spacecraft for the exact same reasons a normal joystick is less than optimal for a shooter. The mechanics of flight are first/second-order, and using a zero-order device such as my fancy mech stick will be as much a hindrance towards that as using a first-order joystick is in a zero-order application, which will also be outlined in my upcoming rant.

[sab0t]

Thank you both for your responses!

I'm using the Joystick 2 Mouse Emulator, and everything is working perfectly! i really appreciate the quick responses and advice. i'll try to pay it forward to anyone else who needs advice down the road

one thing i have a feeling i could get some help with remainds though: I can't find which button choice Joystick 2 Mouse lists for my Analog Throttle. Luckily, MWO seemed to pick it up without issue so I've been able to assign it in game, but my issue is that it is far too sensitive right now, and I wanted to make use of Joystick 2 Mouse's sensitivity/threshold editing to turn it down. Currently I hit max or minimum speed by moving the throttle no more than 2mm from the middle point, so it's really gotta get toned down.

thanks again for your help.

[Loc Nar]

Glad to hear you got yourself up and running. I'm not familiar enough with your emulator yet, but for your throttle it's the one analog control that has worked quite well all along (being a first-order application and all...), and is best taken care of through MWO menu, which is sounds like you are at least partway through getting straightened out. You need to add the following 2 lines to your .cfg in order to get proper function of the throttle.

cl_joystick_throttle_range = 0 //fwd/x/reverse
cl_joystick_invert_throttle = 1 //fwd=fwd

If you have no .cfg file to add these to yet, goto: C:GamesPiranha GamesMechWarrior Online and click 'new file' in the taskbar and name it user.cfg. It can then be opened/edited in notepad with the lines above. (there are more useful lines to put in there, allowing you to adjust your FoV and such...)

If you haven't done so already, open up the menu>options on the MWO client and scroll down to the bottom of the controls/button mapping list. Make sure your throttle is active, and click the cell in the third column next to 'analog throttle' and bind your throttle to it while its flashing to remap it to the throttle. You should then have a good working throttle.

Edited by Loc Nar, 18 May 2013 - 08:07 PM.

[Oy of MidWorld]

I'm glad the Joystick 2 Mouse works for you. For me it made MWO playable the way I like it to play. Dead on accuracy with a joystick. Like i said it's priceless. I donated some money to the guy who wrote it because it is so good.

The fix Loc Nar mentioned in the post above should take care of your throttle problem, no need for Joystick 2 Mouse here.

Edited by Oy of MidWorld, 19 May 2013 - 03:40 PM.

[sab0t]

i will try that shortly! thank you again.

for reference, i didn't have any issue binding the throttle after i used the Joystick 2 Mouse, just no way of modifying anything to do with it.

fingers crossed!

[HammerSwarm]

Sorry to thread hijack but there are some well informed people here

I am using an asus gx810 wireless mouse. The side buttons do not work when I have the asus software installed. MWO is the only program thus far where I have that problem. The buttons and macro's work great in windows, and also in other games.

http://mwomercs.com/...mouse-problems/

Is there anything that you think I could do with an emulator or that config file to enable the inputs? I got this mouse so I could more make macros and have more control over the pauses in between firing weapons. Select fire in the game is woeful at this.

I know this is a joystick thread but smart people are smart people, and so maybe you guys know.

[August55]

My X52 was actually able to bind all the buttons ingame, contrary to all the guides that suggest emulation. This was a recent X52 as of last week.

Edited by August55, 21 May 2013 - 11:25 AM.

[Loc Nar]

Quote

My X52 was actually able to bind all the buttons ingame, contrary to all the guides that suggest emulation.

You misunderstand. Of course you *can use the analog binding as well as the MWO menu button mapping to achieve a working result however to achieve a higher degree of control as opposed to one that merely works (on the fly sensitivity changes, independent adjustment of x and y axes [note- y axis overly sensitive compared to x axes], macros, leaves your mouse active, etc) that is also in turn immune to the routine cycle of completely uprooting the analog controls that happens with nearly every patch; an emulator is much better at doing the job. By not using an emulator, simply put you are settling for less.