53 replies to this topic

[Edson Drake]

The current implementation os Streaks is just... wrong. A homing missile...

The Streaks shouldn't work like this, the other missile should hit only if the first missile hits. I imagine when we finally have SSTRK4 and SSTRK6... damn.

[Asakara]

I suspect it will probably be like it was back in Closed Beta before ECM when most light mechs I encountered in the field carried streaks.. Back when Jenners were "OP" mechs that were "ruining the game for everyone" and "must be nerfed" while Raven 3Ls were "fine".

The big difference I see is that those same streaks, which were so common on lights back then, will only be doing 3 damage per launcher approximately every 3 seconds instead of 5 damage due to the recent 40% damage nerf.

Edited by Asakara, 16 May 2013 - 03:30 PM.

[Kaspirikay]

senaiboy, on 16 May 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

People seem to forget that SSRMs already exists before ECM - light mechs survived then, just as they will survive from now. In fact, Jenners were the king of the hill then dealing damages equivalent to heavy mechs, until the Raven-3Ls drove them to near extinction.

Light mechs were never meant to survive a head-on brawl. Their roles are as scouts and opportunists, not brawlers. They should never stay in one place once spotted.

Streakcats will lose to other heavy/assault mechs, so it's a risk/benefit they have to take into account.

Let's not speculate on what will happen and ride things out before commenting.

Well, I take any light out with my streak cat with just 2 volleys. Lights gotta snipe my streakcat lol. But with new damage numbers, it would be interesting to see what happens.

Edited by Kaspirikay, 16 May 2013 - 03:39 PM.

[J0anna]

Lumpypants, on 16 May 2013 - 12:03 PM, said:

Once BAP's counter ECM, there are going to be a ton of people out Raven hunting. With streaks. I imagine there is a lot of pent up anger towards those perceived "easy button" pilots.

First of all, fewer people will drive the 3L after that. Or lights in general. My favorite mech this week is the laserboat Jenner. I don't dislike 3L's because of ECM. I dislike them for streaks. This isn't a streaks-core-my-CT thread. There won't be any duels because with everyone running SSRM's, it means I can't even be near a mech for more than three seconds. There seems to be fewer lights and mediums in the game now. I forsee even fewer with this change coming thru.

There is some consensus that lights require a higher skill level. I agree with that. But Ravens get a bad rap because they can't be targeted by streaks. In essence, by changing the BAP, you're asking for the game to be easier. For yourself.

It's not canon, but there is a counter. HARM (high-speed anti-radiation missiles). It would home in on ECM broadcasts. No need to lock on. See your radar turn to hash? Launch and the missile knows where to go. It won't dumbfire. Or fire unless you're being actively being jammed. Hide the ECM in your leg to save crit space? Goodbye leg. I see this as being a much more effective counter to ECM than changing the BAP. There is now a risk carrying and ECM. And a risk to hunt them. If you are carrying a HARM loadout, you're reducing your tonnage of "stock" weapons. But think about the pain you'd inflict on those 3L's.

Did you even think that perhaps ECM had made light mechs into something they were never suppose to be - the best fighters? Perhaps, lights were suppose to be scouts and base cappers first, fighters second. They have the speed to avoid damage, the only streak boats that can get close to them and consistently use those weapons are other lights. There isn't a catapult in the game that can catch a raven. You are not suppose to be able to solo every other mech in the game in a raven. A light mech is not suppose to be able to destroy any single mech it comes across. Mechs that are setup to stop light mechs should be able to. If a medium mech fits streaks and BAP, light mechs should stay away from it. Streaks are limited to 270m, period and the mech that mounts them is giving up significant firepower for them (1 streak = 1.5 tons, 1 ton ammo and 1.5 tons for BAP equals 4 tons, that's as much as an SRM 6 plus 1 ton of ammo).

It's the counter that should have been done long ago. Light mechs are suppose to be scouts, and as a (current) assault/heavy pilot, you can be very sure I'm worried when I drop with no light mechs on my team. When the fighting starts, lights are almost granted a free pass, since everybody's worried about the other teams assaults and heavies. If I want to maximize my wins on drops, the best way to do so is to run in a 4 man with 3 other lights - that's not right. Even so, if BAP works to 150m, you still have the ability to work in ML range and prevent streaks from getting a lock on you - you just have to work at it (and at least you have the tools (speed) to do so.) If you blunder into 150m of a streakcat, expect that you're going to get hurt. Here's a little hint, before there was ECM, light pilots learned to head the other way when an A1 headed towards you.....

[Tahribator]

It won't matter for the heavies/assaults and mediums can live with it, but lights will massively suffer from this.

[Lykaon]

Lupus Aurelius, on 16 May 2013 - 12:17 PM, said:

I welcome our new Streak overlords...

(now all we need is collision to return, and ECM circlejerking anklebiters (ravens, commandos, spiders and cicada's) will actually have to learn to pilot again)

Have you recently tried using a light mech to attack heavy and assault mechs?

The combination of hit state rewind and the extreme frequency of high alpha direct fire builds makes successful light mech piloting among the most difficult activities in MWo.

Essentially if you get circlejerked/anklebitten with the current state of the game the light pilot was a skilled pilot.

When half or more of the enemy is packing enough alpha to leg your Raven in one salvo you have to be a good pilot to be successful.

[Lumpypants]

You are correct. Lights aren't brawlers. That doesn't mean I can't fight. Laserboat, remember? I've got 6 medium lasers that, when used judiciously, do a lot of damage. I just can't sit still. But with a lot more people running streaks, I can't line up the strafing runs. No time.

[Ghost_19Hz]

As long as light mechs can go 140+ while having 30 dmg alphas it will be hard to have sympathy for them.

[General Taskeen]

PythonCPT, on 16 May 2013 - 06:15 PM, said:

As long as light mechs can go 140+ while having 30 dmg alphas it will be hard to have sympathy for them.

Even 150+ km/h wouldn't help a Flea with 138 MAX armor, and most of the stock builds have Small Lasers, MG's, and Flamers.

Edited by General Taskeen, 16 May 2013 - 06:21 PM.

[TOGSolid]

shabowie, on 16 May 2013 - 03:04 PM, said:

Absolutely nothing in there about streaks.

You do realize streaks and LRMs share the shame lock on/center mass glitch, right?

Fixing one resolves the other.

[Kitane]

TOGSolid, on 17 May 2013 - 12:46 AM, said:

You do realize streaks and LRMs share the shame lock on/center mass glitch, right?

Fixing one resolves the other.

They share splash damage glitch, they are locking on various parts of LT/RT/CT.

[TexAce]

I never played streakcats before, ever. 3 days ago I bought my first cat, the A1 and tried to see what the fuzz is all about.

actually I find the life of a streakcat a very dangerous one, you have to play completely different than before (I was a brawler before). You can't rush in, you can't lead, you have to wait and be patient to find a sole mech who you know you can core before he can core you.
I assume its a completely different world than before ECM.
Also the cockpit DOES blow up easier on Cats as most are saying. And it's also very hard to get close at all before the poptarts get you. And when you are close you have to be sure you can kill before it takes time to get all the Streaks out to core another mech. in that time he can alpha you two or three times which means death.

and second, while you do get kills sometimes, if you play wise, you don't do much damage at all, leaving you with very less XP then you would usually do as a good brawler.

thats the reason why I switched to a 4xSRM6+2Streaks+Artemis loadout, which does much better for my taste.

what I want to say is, the streak-apocalypse won't be that hard. It's really too easy to counter streakcats with what we have now.

I never piloted light mechs but I can assume they already have a very hard time with high alpha meta and it will only get worse with BAP.

Edited by TexAss, 17 May 2013 - 01:20 AM.

[Gevurah]

Per twitter Bryan says that ATD will have a response for the ssrms.

[trollocaustic]

The sky is falling, It's homing in on our heads!

Streaks are there to counter easymode lights, ECM broke that, I'm looking forwards to them fixing it.

[Leiska]

Lumpypants, on 16 May 2013 - 12:03 PM, said:

Once BAP's counter ECM, there are going to be a ton of people out Raven hunting. With streaks. I imagine there is a lot of pent up anger towards those perceived "easy button" pilots.

Lights, ECM or no ECM, are the hardest mech class to pilot and there is definitely nothing "easy button" about the 3L. The streaks and immunity to enemy streaks makes it a strong light vs. light duelist but the 3L has not been an intimidating battlefield presence since the HSR patches started rolling in. The damage output just isn't there, the paper armor means you get legged in one alpha and the lack of lag shielding makes you a much easier target than before.

Even the streaks on a 3L aren't nearly as easy to use as people make it out to be. When both you and your target are moving at 150kp/h, it can be tricky to keep the crosshair steady long enough to secure a lock on, which gives a more energy heavy mech, such as the Jenner, an opprotunity to score a bunch of free damage.

[Joseph Mallan]

Bringing paper(cuts) to a gun fight. I fear! I fear!

[Fate 6]

Lupus Aurelius, on 16 May 2013 - 12:17 PM, said:

I welcome our new Streak overlords...

(now all we need is collision to return, and ECM circlejerking anklebiters (ravens, commandos, spiders and cicada's) will actually have to learn to pilot again)

I am offended that you think my ECM Cicada doesn't take skill. I assure you keeping all my lasers on target for their full duration while running at 15fps is not easy.

[Petroshka]

ECM has made streaks essentially worthless. I realize that the BAP changes will counter that, but I worry that it might be TOO strong of a change. The nerf stick is swinging too hard in either direction. 100% ECM counter is ridiculous, and will eliminate ECM as the role of light protection. Lights should never fear LRMs (although the new changes to LRM might cause that ...) because they move too fast

I hoped they were going to take a more moderate approach and do something like:

- Let streaks lock on ECM, but have a RNG chance of missing.
- Let BAP counter ECM only for the pilot with BAP. I.e. if i have a BAP, and am within 150m, i can target ECM mechs.
- Let TAG counter ECM for the tagged unit.
- Let NARC counter ECM for the narced unit.
- Let ECM not be 100%, meaning you CAN lock ECMd units, but your missiles will spread more.

In other words: ECM gives a +hit to attackers with lock-on tech, BAP, TAG, NARC gives -hit to attackers with lock on tech.

ECM should never give 100% immunity, BAP should never be a 100% counter. it's too binary.

[Jestun]

Light brawlers will be nerfed.

Whoop-de-do.


ECM needs a nerf, I have yet to decide whether this was the correct one but it needed addressing.

[Wispsy]

trollocaustic, on 17 May 2013 - 06:18 AM, said:

The sky is falling, It's homing in on our heads!

Streaks are there to counter easymode lights, ECM broke that, I'm looking forwards to them fixing it.

Come at my jumpsniper in your light and tell me just how "easymode" it is...oh wait, the first shot without even having fired SSRMs would kill you. :/ "Aim" should be the counter for lights...not magic missiles that never miss.