18 replies to this topic

[Tennex]

They're basically the same thing. Both lower the overall DPS of the weapon.

With a heat increase. your weapons overheat faster and you have to wait for the cooldown on heat..


The only real difference is that with heat adjustments, the player can rapid fire the weapon until it overheats for more "burst" dps. while increasing cooldown simply lowers the DPS overall.


so really either way PPC's DPS will be nerfed.

Edited by Tennex, 16 May 2013 - 04:40 PM.

[Keifomofutu]

Tennex, on 16 May 2013 - 04:38 PM, said:

They're basically the same thing. Both lower the overall DPS of the weapon.

With a heat increase. your weapons overheat faster and you have to wait for the cooldown on heat..


The only real difference is that with heat adjustments, the player can rapid fire the weapon until it overheats for more "burst" dps. while increasing cooldown simply lowers the DPS overall.


so really either way PPC's DPS will be nerfed.

Unless you only have a couple heat was always the real limiter for PPCs. The change will help a little in brawling range but I fear not much.

[hammerreborn]

Except adding more heat = firing more causes shutdown, in which the mech becomes completely defenseless

Adding cooldown = more time to cooldown causing the mechs to be more "efficient" and are more defensible.

So no, they arent the same at all

[Tennex]

hammerreborn, on 16 May 2013 - 05:10 PM, said:

Except adding more heat = firing more causes shutdown, in which the mech becomes completely defenseless

Adding cooldown = more time to cooldown causing the mechs to be more "efficient" and are more defensible.

So no, they arent the same at all

i don't know about you
i assume people are good enough at heat management not to shutdown.

Edited by Tennex, 16 May 2013 - 05:16 PM.

[Krazy Kat]

When you are boating 4 PPC's and you reach max heat you have to wait about 6 seconds to fire again.

So changing the cool down of PPC's from 3 seconds to 4 seconds does nothing for a boater.

It only affects people with one or two PPC's.

[hammerreborn]

Tennex, on 16 May 2013 - 05:16 PM, said:

i don't know about you
i assume people are good enough at heat management not to shutdown.

HAHAHAHA like anyone boating 6 ppcs cares about heat management and not about doing 120 damage in 3 seconds

[Tennex]

hammerreborn, on 16 May 2013 - 05:36 PM, said:

HAHAHAHA like anyone boating 6 ppcs cares about heat management and not about doing 120 damage in 3 seconds

thats a different issue. and if you bothered to read the dev post they said they would have shutdown mechs take damage if the heat threshold is too high

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

They are not the same. Increasing heat decreases sustained dps. Increasing recharge time decreases short-term and sustained dps. Sniper weapons need less short-term dps if brawlers are going to be able to compete in their supposed area of expertise (namely, close-up short-term dps). Increase heat and that 6PPC Stalker can still fire twice in 3 seconds. Increase recharge time and now it's down to twice in 4 seconds, which is still nasty but not nearly as bad for the brawler.

The same is true for less extreme builds, too. A single erppc firing twice in 3 seconds is a huge short-term damage output (the same as an AC20 over that same time period). Bump the recharge time up to 4 seconds and suddenly it is half the damage of an AC20 (which also has a 4 second reload speed) over that same 3 second period. This is a direct buff to brawler builds, while only making sniper builds less effective in brawling situations, which was a desperately needed change.

Even aside from all that, PGI specifically mentioned bringing PPCs into line with other large energy weapons, namely the LL, ERLL, and LPL. The LL and ERLL are both sitting at a 4.25 second firing cycle. The LPL is slightly lower, at 4 seconds. This gives the PPC the same firing rate as the rapid-cycling large laser variant, instead of being just as fast as a small laser. You read that right, 3 second firing cycle matches the super-fast-cycling small laser. Absurd that it was ever that short, no?

[HRR Insanity]

DPS isn't the problem. A single packet of 35-60 damage is the problem.

You can spend as long as you need cooling down behind cover.

Bad fix. Doesn't solve the underlying problem.

[Belorion]

Except not...

Longer cool down you can just shoot other weapons not so with heat.

[Ph30nix]

increasing heat though effects more then just one weapon though, even if you are only increasing the heat to ONE weapon.

i have 2 er ppc on a mech and 2 medium lasers, you in crease the cooldown on the PPC and i can still fire my mediums with no differnce.

you increase the heat though and you just reduced how much i can use my medium lasers.

[Triple Patte]

PPC boats could not fire every 3 seconds under normal circumstances anyways (yeah, they could twice, then very 6-7 seconds).

It will actually gimp balanced builds with 1-2 PPCs more because they often get in brawling range and could use that DPS.

It is a step in the right direction, however, because it will make multi-ppc platform with cool shots easier to brawl. It was annoying to go toe to toe with a 4 ppc stalker and have it fire 3-4 times because of a 9x9 cool shot and stuff like that.

[Ph30nix]

Ridiculous, on 17 May 2013 - 04:25 AM, said:

PPC boats could not fire every 3 seconds under normal circumstances anyways (yeah, they could twice, then very 6-7 seconds).

It will actually gimp balanced builds with 1-2 PPCs more because they often get in brawling range and could use that DPS.

It is a step in the right direction, however, because it will make multi-ppc platform with cool shots easier to brawl. It was annoying to go toe to toe with a 4 ppc stalker and have it fire 3-4 times because of a 9x9 cool shot and stuff like that.

see i just dont brawl with them, i hit and run attack on them but this only works in lights mediums and fast heavies. If im in something slow i usualy get help if i can or let lights deal with them or someone else who has an advantage over them. I get your frustration though.
Coolshot doesnt bug me, to me consumables add more variety to the game and allow some more strats.

i had thought of the nerf to 2 ppc builds which yea it would hurt them when it wasnt needed, but with the heat cap anyways it wouldnt make a HUGE differnce in fact id bet your long term DPS stays the same its just going to screw your first two shots....

but its kinda expected from PGI, they have to do something to quell the QQ at this point wether or not its justified and this is something that while probably not the right move and i realy dont think it will change much at least they didnt do something insanely extreme to make them useless. Maybe they learned after the LRM situation.

i would honestly rather they make beams viable...

on paper they seem great and balanced but when you add in
damage over duration (which can be useful but its not taken into account in some things)
fact cooldown doesnt start until beam shot ends (so they have a longer than stated cooldown)
limited range vs almost everything else
pair the above with beam duratoin and the slightest twitch can invalidate majority of a shot (which again is both good and bad vs a 100% miss of instant weapons)

but they dont seem to be taken into account with balance.

to me they should slightly lower heat of standard beams and maybe even reduce cooldown to account for beam duration "penalty" as far as cooldown goes.

would make them more useful

Edited by Ph30nix, 17 May 2013 - 04:50 AM.

[Kaldor]

I see all these idea about nerfing this and that.... Bad ideas are bad.

How about we just lower the fricking heat cap already? In turn, increase the dissipation rates. Add in actual damage from over heating, and suddenly we are not playing AlphaStrikeWarrior online anymore? The shutdown alpha striking meta that we currently have offers no penalties in all reality especially those that are playing super sneaky sniper at 800m+.

[JohnathanSwift]

HRR Insanity, on 16 May 2013 - 07:24 PM, said:

DPS isn't the problem. A single packet of 35-60 damage is the problem.

You can spend as long as you need cooling down behind cover.

Bad fix. Doesn't solve the underlying problem.

PPC stalkers are the only real thing that keep poptarts on the ground.

So they're nerfing this by creating a heat system that punishes mechs that use multiple small weapons?

Mlas jenners, Hunchback 4p, awesome 8q, Atlas RS or D.

This is stupid.

[Bagheera]

Tennex, on 16 May 2013 - 05:16 PM, said:

i don't know about you
i assume people are good enough at heat management not to shutdown.

You cannot be serious.

[Petroshka]

they are not the same thing.

A sniper relies on burst damage, a brawler relies on sustained damage.

Burst damage is the amount of damage you can put out starting at 0%, until you overheat. Burst damage dealers do not care too much about overheating.

Sustained damage is the amount you put out over a longer period of time, without overheating. Sustained damage dealers are very worried about overheating.


A sniper with 6x PPC can pop up, alpha a couple of times, and hide. - poptarts will do the same and sometimes heat overload mid air because he will fall into protection They will do very well in a game like this and will not be really affected by heat increase or cooldown increase.

Brawlers will be very much affected by a heat increase, less so by a cooldown increase - because a cooldown increase physically restricts his sus. dps. (without concern for heat management). a heat increase makes it more difficult to manage heat, but unlike the cooldown increase, it will require the gamer to change his firing discipline.

[Vapor Trail]

JohnathanSwift, on 17 May 2013 - 05:00 AM, said:

PPC stalkers are the only real thing that keep poptarts on the ground.

So they're nerfing this by creating a heat system that punishes mechs that use multiple small weapons?

Mlas jenners, Hunchback 4p, awesome 8q, Atlas RS or D.

This is stupid.

AC/2 Jager or Phract. 4-6 MedLas Cicadas. Death Knell. Brawler load (6 MedLas + SRMs) Stalkers. The list goes on.

[Ricama]

Well no, they are similar but not identical: increased heat only shortens the initial burst period before heat becomes an issue whereas raising the cooldown affects both overall dps and the initial burst dps. a subtle but important difference if you can go extended periods of time without contact and then burst at the point of contact.