31 replies to this topic

[Wildstreak]

Not counting the MG, has its own thread.

An old BT argument about why to use AC/2, AC/5, LRM5, LRM10, SRM2.

Given MWO operates in different ways than TT, why use any of these. Interested to hear with all the AC/2s and AC/5s I see used and how MWO gameplay changes the view of these 5 weapons.

[Clit Beastwood]

I use AC2/s to encourage enemies to keep their heads down at long ranges, and it spoils the aim of ppc boats.
and it sounds neat
I use AC/5 because I had to put *something* on my spider 5k, so I experimented
LRM5, again, just playing, but sometimes I can fit a few lrm5's in where I have a missile hardpoint and no room for anything else.

[Tex1013]

in old TT BT, I *hated* ac2s, ac5' - I found them to be bafflingly ineffective weapons - huge crit and tonnage cost, ammo dependent, good range, but lousy damage (due to the entirely randomized hit location table)

as such, I avoided such mechs like the plague

MWO, however, has given AC's *significant* mechanical advantages, and nearly ALL the Mechwarrior games (except the first one) have given AC's one huge cosmetic advantage

Cosmetic advantage - hitting people with, and shooting, AC's, sounds AWESOME!!! People have referenced the joy of dakka before, and it's true - the thuddathudda boom! of an AC is really, surprisingly satisfying

but, more mechanically, MWO has given AC's two things that they desperately need to be more effective
1 - significantly increased rate of fire relativel to BT TT fire-rates - even with doubled armor, an AC5 can fire effectively 5 times (plus a little) during what would constitute a normal round of BT - that, even assuming doubled armor, gives the AC5 more than double it's normal firepower effectiveness...

2 - weapon convergence, and targetable locations in general - by making AC's able to aim at particular locations, this sets them (and every weapon except lasers) significantly more effective than they are in TT, because you can focus fire by choice (lasers are partially exempt, because of their fire-over-time effect making it far easier to force them to fire across multiple locations) - that, combined with weapon convergence (being able to link double ac5's to a single torso, and have both of them strike the same location firing at the same time, giving you essentially an ac10 with better range and velocity, albiet at a huge cost in tonnage/space/ammo) makes AC's drastically more effective than they are in TT

less of input about missiles, seeing as they're so wildly effective/ineffective at any given moment in the dev cycle

[trollocaustic]

ACs are godmode right now. An AC/2 beats a PPC in every fight unless the PPC mech gets creative and uses strategy.

[ReissTC]

I like the AC/5 - needs a rate of fire increase, though. Good in pairs. Or if you have 4.

The AC/2 is nice in pairs, since it's just less than an AC/5 / UAC/5 in damage, can't jam and fires damn fast.

On their own they're not great weapons, though. Not much reason to take them over the energy weapons. Not... terrible, as such, they do damage, but only really find them effective vs larger mechs due to spreaded damage.

[Kanatta Jing]

The AC/2 is better then the PPC in a brawl. It has a higher DPS and runs a little cooler. It just isn't any good for alpa shots.

The AC/5 and 10 aren't doing so hot right now though.

The LRM 5 is okay as a secondary weapon system on some mechs. Like the Cataphract 4X. Mostly used just for pot shots while you slowly try to get into position.

The LRM 10 is... It's for the Dragon. Pretty much anything else should upgrade to the 15. Much like the LRM 5 being for pot shots the entire Dragon is for taking pot shots and never committing.

As for the SRM 2... I'm not sure anyone uses those. For anything. Not when you it's so easy to go for the more feared Streak or the SRM 4.

[badaa]

i use lrm5s in groups when i hav the hardpoints because two 5s way less and fire faster than one 10

[Buckminster]

I have an AC/5 in my Cent A - good for putting out damage without requiring a stupid amount of weight. I'd love to do the AC/10 to keep it basically stock, but that 250 engine is heavy. I don't use a UAC/5 because of the extra weight and decreased ammo count. I'm also not keen on the idea of it jamming.

As for LRM5s - I've used them all the time in light mechs. It's a great way to throw a little bit of damage into a mech, and if they ever de-nerf LRMs than that "incoming missile" warning light will make people move, even though it's only 5 missiles.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

Tonnage and the number of missile tubes. For example the X5 has two missile slots but both have only two tubes, so it would be most efficient to use SRM2 or Streak SRM2 on those slots. If you want bigger launchers you'll have to keep your crosshair on enemy longer time which usually is not a good idea on a light mech. Otherwise you'll just waste ammo.

Also for example Cent A you'll pack 3xSRM6 and perhaps an AC/2 to go with that, but the main weapon is 2xML and 3xSRM6. Quite simple actually.

[MonkeyCheese]

I use a ac2 on my 5k spider and 4x raven for 2 reasons.
1. There is nothing lighter for the ballistics with more range than a machine gun. (eg ac1 with 1000m range would be perfect)
2. I like the challenge of these "gimped" variants, and at range with the small ballistics is less suicidal than trying to utilize machine guns or the larger heavy ballistics up close.

In larger mechs like a dragon or a jager, ac2/5 are just great for keeping other snipers off their hilltops. as well as more space/tons for other things.

Lrm5/10 on light mechs as a secondary weapon are also great for keeping snipers off their hilltops.

IV Amen, on 17 May 2013 - 06:26 PM, said:

Tonnage and the number of missile tubes. For example the X5 has two missile slots but both have only two tubes, so it would be most efficient to use SRM2 or Streak SRM2 on those slots. If you want bigger launchers you'll have to keep your crosshair on enemy longer time which usually is not a good idea on a light mech. Otherwise you'll just waste ammo.

Also for example Cent A you'll pack 3xSRM6 and perhaps an AC/2 to go with that, but the main weapon is 2xML and 3xSRM6. Quite simple actually.

Eventually I think the plan is to convert all the older mechs to the new modular system.

Stick a mg on a jager, it gets a small mgs, stick a ac10 on there and it gets a big cannon.

With missiles its the same, stick a lrm15 into the side torso of a highlander and it gets 15 tubes and all lrms fire at the same time, stick a ssrm in the same spot and it gets 2 tubes.

In time people wont have to worry about a mech having only 2 tubes per launcher like your x5 cidada, when it is all implemented you will be able to place 2 srm6 on your x5 and it will have 12 tubes and will fire all 12 srms at the same time.

Edited by MonkeyCheese, 17 May 2013 - 06:39 PM.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

MonkeyCheese, on 17 May 2013 - 06:37 PM, said:

Eventually I think the plan is to convert all the older mechs to the new modular system.

Stick a mg on a jager, it gets a small mgs, stick a ac10 on there and it gets a big cannon.

With missiles its the same, stick a lrm15 into the side torso of a highlander and it gets 15 tubes and all lrms fire at the same time, stick a ssrm in the same spot and it gets 2 tubes.

In time people wont have to worry about a mech having only 2 tubes per launcher like your x5 cidada, when it is all implemented you will be able to place 2 srm6 on your x5 and it will have 12 tubes and will fire all 12 srms at the same time.

What is this new modular system you talk about? Reference? Latest mech they added was Misery which has 6 tubes on the RT missile slot, like all STK have 6 tubes on RT and LT for the use of SRM6. I hope you're wrong, because the number of tubes have significant effect on gameplay. Also that would mean that for example you could put LRM20 to the NARC hardpoint in STK-5M and turn 1 tube into 20. Does not compute. Also all the HGN variants have 20 tubes on LT (except HM).

PS. I don't own an X5, it was an example.

[Kaylos Thex]

He's talking about these. On newer mechs like the Jagermech and Highlander, it is what you see is what you get.

LRMs

http://imgur.com/YV7PA7Y.png

SRM

http://imgur.com/J65O8ZX.png

Notice in the SRM shot of my highlander, the torso LRM is gone, as is the LRM 10.
Were I to install SRMs there it would have the correct number of tubes. The most it can have for LRMs is 50 tubes though. But 24 SRM tubes are as well.
The The Highlander even has a one tube narc skin, Flamers, different cannon barrels. All the weapons are represented.

Edited by Kaylos Thex, 17 May 2013 - 08:12 PM.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

In other words he's talking about the new meshes. They are eyecandy only, don't change the tubes that are available at that certain hardpoint.

Edit: You can see it for yourself. Put LRM10 on your arm hardpoint and LRM10 on your LT. Go to training grounds and fire them seperately. You will notice that the arm hardpoint fires the missiles in 2 volleys and the LT hardpoint fires them in one volley.

Edited by IV Amen, 17 May 2013 - 08:25 PM.

[arghmace]

The good thing about SRM2 is that it is very accurate. Those missiles hit very well to any distance while SRM4 and SRM6 spread out insanely unless you invest in Artemis.

[Ph30nix]

for me ac/2 is all about its range and constant stream of fire even in a group fire non chain fire mode. theres no "oh crap i missed now im exposed for 3-4 seconds"

ac/5's i usualy take when i dont have the tonnage for an Uac/5 but even they pack a decent punch for their weight, very little heat and their DPS is the same if not higher then a ac/20.

Now the LRM/5 and such if i have the spare tonage ill throw one on for no other reason then to give targets a "incoming missle" warning on their Hud, so they have to either stay behind cover or risk being the victim to an LRM boat.

[Ryebear]

AC/5s have significantly less DPS (2.94 vs 5) than an AC/20 and you must expose yourself long as well the recipient of the AC/5 shots can spread the damage or you could simply not shoot at the same location making it less effective.

[Buckminster]

The AC/5 is sadly underpowered in the AC world - lower damage than it's heavier brothers and lower rate of fire than the AC/2. The one advantage it does have is that it doesn't make as much heat. I don't want it to be the main damage dealer on my Centurion - it's role is to provide some harassment at range - so I also don't want to dedicate the weight that a heavier AC would require, and I don't want to dedicate the heat sinks I'd need to make an AC/2 effective. The AC/5 fits the bill nicely.

[Sephlock]

LRM5s had a purpose before the WAHHHHMBULANCE ran them the **** over. Ditto for AC/2s - now they're mostly for fun, but still not as bad as LRM5s.

[Traigus]

I use regular SRM 2s in smaller mechs all the time.

I'm using a TREB right now that has a 2 tube arm. I have 2x normal SRM2 in chain fire. Rather than a SRM4 (coming out 2 at a time).

I get to choose if I get the second 2 missiles or not, and their timing. SRM2s are also incredibly accurate out to max range. Since it is arm mounted, I can fire it sideways at a dead run and get ~8 damage at max rage. Trying to do the same thing with a SRM6 or 4 in my chest mount (15 tubes) might get me 2 missiles on target, AND would make me face my center torso at the target.

I've had good effect with Commandos even before the buckets came out (even thoug hthe commando arm launchers are bigger than 2 tubes). People don't expect missiles to hit them that far out accurately (especiialy if they have ECM).


A lot of X-5 pilots use them to shoot up 3Ls


As a non- boater, I make sure I have at least 1 close and 1 far ranged weapon on my mech, so I can always be helping out.

Small LRMs are good for making enemies duck behind cover.

I use 5's on commandos and Jenenrs all the time.

I very rarely use 10s on mediums unless they are paired. Right now I think I only have them on the 2 launcher hunchie and one of my more laser brawly trebs (close laser treb = less LRM backup, and LRM treb = less laser backup... while ranged laser treb with LLasers has SRMs)

[FrostCollar]

IV Amen, on 17 May 2013 - 06:26 PM, said:

Tonnage and the number of missile tubes. For example the X5 has two missile slots but both have only two tubes, so it would be most efficient to use SRM2 or Streak SRM2 on those slots. If you want bigger launchers you'll have to keep your crosshair on enemy longer time which usually is not a good idea on a light mech. Otherwise you'll just waste ammo.

Well, some people feel this way, but it isn't gospel. I actually like SRM 6s on my X-5. You get the comparative tight groupings of the SRM2s and the power of a 6 tube SRM6. I'm used enough to the three bursts that I've become a good aim at it. Still, each to his own.