15 replies to this topic

[Critical Rocket]

Just wanted to ask everyone here if they can clarify something from the battletech universe I was wondering about recently.

Are the successor states capable of building new mech production facilities or are they incapable now and every plant is a finite resource? It's just that reading about 'mechs on sarna it usually mentions that "'mech X was primarily built at X plant but was destroyed during X war". Does this mean that the remaining 'mechs of those plants are now unable to be replaced?

Also if this is the case does the revival of lostech allow them to rebuild new facilities to begin production of these rare designs?

Sorry for my relative noobishness around these probably commonly known facts of the universe

[Stormwolf]

Some mechs went extinct while others saw new production runs at other factories. Most of the old Star League designs went extinct for this reason till the Helm Memory core got rediscovered.

This a allowed the factories to get upgraded again to build more advanced mechs, the best example here is probably the Highlander. The HGN-732 is the original Star League design whereas the HGN-733 is a less advanced Successor State variant despite being newer. The return of technologies like gauss rifles allowed them to build the 732 again.

[Critical Rocket]

So when a factory or production plant was destroyed they could rebuild the plant elsewhere? Or was that it for that particular design. Since the Warhammer, Maruader and many others are star league era designs, did the successor states still have the ability to build a new plant to produce lowtech variants of these mechs? Or was it a case of carefully maintaining such units until the helm memory core discovery?

Thanks for the reply Stormwolf

[dal10]

they could repair plants to a degree, or if some of the equipment survived they could move it. but they couldn't build the assembly lines (they have issues with robots) to build a plant from scratch until after the clan invasion. hesperus for example was almost completely automated.

[Stormwolf]

James Heywood, on 18 May 2013 - 05:07 AM, said:

So when a factory or production plant was destroyed they could rebuild the plant elsewhere? Or was that it for that particular design. Since the Warhammer, Maruader and many others are star league era designs, did the successor states still have the ability to build a new plant to produce lowtech variants of these mechs? Or was it a case of carefully maintaining such units until the helm memory core discovery?

Thanks for the reply Stormwolf

It all depends on the mech type/variant and the components they used. The Crab for instance was a SLDF footsoldier design that could not be found among the Successor States, the blueprints pretty much remained in the hands of the SLDF, Comstar and later the Clans (note that the Clans have the full SL database but don't build the Crab since it's outdated). Comstar/Word of Blake eventually restarted production again after the 2nd Star League went belly up (though this type is more advanced then the SL model).

Other models like the original Titan were lost forever and only saw new life in a followup model.

This should provide some more info on the status quo:
http://www.sarna.net...ion_Holy_Shroud
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Level_1
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Level_2
http://www.sarna.net...elm_Memory_Core

[Critical Rocket]

Awesome stuff, thank you very much Stormwolf and dal10 Sorry to be a pain with my nooby questions, but it was something I was interested in because the lore to the BT universe makes for a very interesting read.

[Stormwolf]

James Heywood, on 18 May 2013 - 07:08 AM, said:

Awesome stuff, thank you very much Stormwolf and dal10 Sorry to be a pain with my nooby questions, but it was something I was interested in because the lore to the BT universe makes for a very interesting read.

No problem

[Soy]

I'm not really sure if I'm saying this right cuz all I know is stuff from sarna and whatnot, but... I'd also think that some of the plants and companies are, you know, businesses, so a lot of times they are thinking about just making straight cash homey, they don't really concern themselves all the time with what mech some house really needs or whatever...

[Kyone Akashi]

Hmm. Yes, I would suspect that the various corporations keeping their specs and designs a secret (so as to prevent competitors from copying them) may affect the propagation of this knowledge. When a company makes every effort to keep the information on product X in the plant that builds it, and said facility gets destroyed, well ...

The early Succession Wars also were of a massive, widespread devastation that later conflicts up until the Jihad in 3067 were unable to repeat - not in the least because this destruction directly affected the various Houses ability to rebuild their military capabilities. It reminds a little of that quote from Albert Einstein:
"I do not know how the Third World War will be fought, but I can tell you what they will use in the Fourth — rocks!"

The memory core mentioned by Stormwolf-san can be said to have triggered a renaissance, and ComStar's careful, controlled release of stored data also allowed various items of "lostech" (lost technology) to be rediscovered. Both the Jihad as well as the era of peace that followed it would again lead to a slight decline in practical knowhow, albeit nothing as serious as the Succession Wars.

[Skylarr]

I would like to note that some factories are owned by families. Some of these families own factpries in differnet realms. It does sound strange, but, money is money when you dea with Corporations. I know this because in a TT campain I am currently one of my retired character was related to one of these families. I do not have the time currently to show the proof. But, I will look for it later. I am sure there are others that can verify this.

[Skylarr]

All Factories are automated. Before the discover of the Helm Memory Core many of the factories were being held together by bubblegum and crazy glue. If one was severely damaged there was no were to get it back online. Some minor parts could be fixed, but, the Major parts could not. This is why some Vehicle Lines stopped production. The factories were to heavely damaged.

Mech Production List?

http://bg.battletech...p?topic=23288.0

Quote

Here's a list I compiled a few years ago from the House books only. I didn't bother about specific manufacturers, just listed them by world. Some sources gave yearly production figures and I've included them.

Federated Suns:
Marduk: GRF-1N Griffin, WVR-6R Wolverine
New Avalon: VLK-QA Valkyrie (130), WSP-1A Wasp, PXH-1 Phoenix Hawk, LCT-1V Locust
Talon: RFL-3N Rifleman, GRF-1N Griffin, ENF-4R Enforcer, JM6-S JagerMech
Quentin: AS7-D Atlas (5), JM6-S JagerMech, VTR-9B Victor (20), MAD-3R Marauder (20)
Panpour: CN9-A Centurion

Draconis Combine:
Irece: Stinger LAM
Jarett: PNT-9R Panther
Luthien: DRG-1N Dragon, CGR-1A1 Charger, QKD-4G Quickdraw
Al Na'ir: Unspecified ("only recently back to production")
Alshain: Unspecified ("small")

Lyran Commonwealth:
Hesperus II: ZEU-6S Zeus, AS7-D Atlas, ARC-2R Archer, GRF-1N Griffin
Furillo: ZEU-6S Zeus, WSP-1A Wasp, LCT-1V Locust
Coventry: COM-2D Commando, VL-2T Vulcan, PXH-1 Phoenix Hawk, FS9-H Firestarter, STG-3R Stinger
Carlisle: MAD-3R Marauder, ARC-2R Archer
Sudeten: WHM-6R Warhammer, TDR-5S Thunderbolt
Tharkad: CRD-3R Crusader
Twycross: STK-3F Stalker, BLR-1G BattleMaster, RFL-3N Rifleman
Pandora: RFL-3N Rifleman, BLR-1G BattleMaster

Free Worlds League: (total yearly production 486)
Kalidasa: Hunchback (14), Trebuchet (8), Orion (17), Wasp (20)
Irian: Hermes II (14), Awesome (7)
Keystone: Griffin (18), BattleMaster (12), Phoenix Hawk (13), Stinger (27)
Calloway VI: Archer (15), Shadow Hawk (14), Stinger (15)
Shiro III: Stalker (11), Hermes II (20), Wasp (31)
Thermopolis: Rifleman (8), Wolverine M (18)
Kendall: Orion (25)
Gibson: Marauder M (8), Wolverine M (18), Cicada (6), Locust (16)
Oliver: Griffin (23), Crusader (7)
Tematagi: Warhammer (17), Spider (16), Vulcan (13)
Stewart: Trebuchet (8), Goliath (4), Locust (16)
Wallis: Marauder M (13), Warhammer (5)
Savannah: Quickdraw (9)

Capellan Confederation: (total yearly production 400)
Tikonov (90): Unspecified
Sirius (65): Unspecified
St. Ives (65): Unspecified
Sian (60): Unspecified
Grand Base (55): Unspecified
Betelgeuse (30): Unspecified
Ares (25): Unspecified
Aldebaran (10): Unspecified

Of these lists, I think the Davion, Steiner and Marik ones are pretty clear and accurate, with a few omissions at best. The Kurita one is a bit incomplete, but still rather easily fixed. The problem is the Liao list, which is not only most vague, but also conflicts with other canon sources, as mentioned above. I agree that Sirius should probably be Styk instead, and Aldebaran is perhaps Nanking (it's just one jump away). What's going on at Betelgeuse, I don't know, but perhaps instead of a factory producing new 'Mechs there's some sort of a repair/refit-base where Liao technicians rebuild old machines scrounged from battlefields and the CCAF counts these as new 'Mechs (they are getting pretty desperate by 3025, after all).

-Villain

[dal10]

st. ives produced victors i know that. (it was the only assault mech produced in the confederation 3SW til 4SW.)

[Nerroth]

There are also a few cases where 'Mechs or other units are "hand-crafted" one at a time, in places where assembly line production is not feasible.

One case in point is in the Niops Association, which had a workshop capable of building any of the 'Mechs in its database in this manner... at least until Bad Things happened to the Niopsians during the Jihad.

(I'm not sure if they've managed to restore the workshop by 3145, though.)

Edited by Nerroth, 20 May 2013 - 02:17 PM.

[Soy]

Nerroth, on 20 May 2013 - 02:16 PM, said:

There are also a few cases where 'Mechs or other units are "hand-crafted" one at a time, in places where assembly line production is not feasible.

yep...



Bander BattleMechs is a niche BattleMech refit company.


Owing its formation to the destruction of the Twelfth Star Guard mercenary unit during the Clan Invasion, the units former chief tech Felifious Bander realized defeating the invaders with Succession Wars era technology was an impossible task. Entering the safer and more lucrative BattleMech refitting business, Bander used his considerable reputation to convince other former mercenary techs to join his firm, quickly establishing a reputation for quality at competitive prices.^[1]
Using his customer's refits and his experience against the invaders, Bander also developed a BattleMech design, the Bandersnatch, which he boldly proclaimed to be the most versatile design in the Inner Sphere. However, due to the size of the company, each Bandersnatch is built by hand and takes approximately ten months to complete, with barely a half-dozen in existence by 3055.^[1]
It is unknown what became of the company during the Word of Blake Jihad. It is known that Terra Firma had joined the Word of Blake Protectorate by 3071.

Edited by Soy, 20 May 2013 - 02:21 PM.

[Stormwolf]

The Timber Wolf a.k.a. Mad Cat is hand crafted by Clan Wolf nowadays (3080+) since they no longer have any proper assembly lines for it.

[Skylarr]

Soy, on 20 May 2013 - 02:19 PM, said:

Nerroth, on 20 May 2013 - 02:16 PM, said:

There are also a few cases where 'Mechs or other units are "hand-crafted" one at a time, in places where assembly line production is not feasible.

One case in point is in the Niops Association, which had a workshop capable of building any of the 'Mechs in its database in this manner... at least until Bad Things happened to the Niopsians during the Jihad.

(I'm not sure if they've managed to restore the workshop by 3145, though.)

yep...

The Bandersnatch started production in 3052. After the introduction of the Helm Memmory Core.

Quote

The Succession Wars plunged the Inner Sphere into centuries of interstellar warfare soon afterwards. In this technological and cultural dark age of Lostech, the Successor States of humanity soon fought with 'Mechs and other equipment that was literally decades, if not centuries, old and in a sorry state of repair. Ancient automated factories continued to produce BattleMechs even when their technology was not understood anymore. Over time, equipment shortages, system failures and similar problems sparked innumerable variants of the classic designs. Field modifications and makeshift repairs became commonplace.

So, Mechs were not hand made until after the 3050s. I am sure you can find a handful of Mechs that were put together by hand by Techs that was genius and a llot of spare time on his hands.