105 replies to this topic

[Inkarnus]

still to some degree i cant see how playing a fairgame unrigged game when 4 ppl are death within 2 minutes into the game
and you mostly out ther fighting 4vs8
happening alot especially when US players get up to a very lesser extend the EU player base
so i still think most games are rigged with premades
since under 50 damage in an assault mech is just BS from 4 guys wich happened
alot lately happened same with WOT too syncdrop in farm the mony and so on
its easy too make fake accounts and get a mech fast with the bonuses you get
especially the dudes that just disconnect for moneyfarming i hope they will have
there account wiped squidly clean soon

[juju2112]

Insanity does NOT mean doing the same thing over and over again. Here is the definition:

http://dictionary.re...se/insanity?s=t

[p00k]

Niko Snow, on 24 May 2013 - 05:49 PM, said:

Sorry you're having a rough time. Don't forget to check out the Guides & Strategy section of the forum, you can find some great tips on how to improve your survivability.

spoken like someone trying to gloss over a glaring fault with matchmaking. i guess i need to head to the guides and strategy section too, after rounds like these:






and i guess the other team needed to head over to the guides section to do better in this kind of matchup



and i'm totally sure it was the guides and strategy section that let snail come out on top after this round




oh right, this is PGI, matchmaker working as intended

Edited by p00k, 28 May 2013 - 11:29 PM.

[Sephlock]

Jonathan Paine, on 19 May 2013 - 07:30 PM, said:

Accusations of communism aside, the whole point is to reach a 1.0 win/loss ratio. For a while you might be higher or lower, but sooner or later you should be dropping against players your own level. Not communism, more like a system that eventually turns every game into your own superbowl. I, for one, prefer to watch a superbowl with two competitive teams where you don't know before the game who will win.

Of course, most MWO players are worried about having a fair fight - which explains a lot of forum crying.

P.S.
The current matchmaker is the least well programmed part of MWO. Expect suckage until they make it their #1 priority.

Quite.

[Drenaline]

Niko Snow, on 24 May 2013 - 05:49 PM, said:

Sorry you're having a rough time. Don't forget to check out the Guides & Strategy section of the forum, you can find some great tips on how to improve your survivability.

Hey Niko how about u actually get in a mech and become a pilot instead of hanging out on the forums making posts trying to sound cool.Then you might actually understand what Pook and a lot of other people are complaining about in regards to MM. And please don't respond about how many countless hours you put in the seat of mech like the devs do. I'll just have to call BS again.

[Jungle Rhino]

@ OP

There is a lot more to winning a game than doing damage and getting kills.

Indeed supporting your team-mates, NOT looking for kills is often more beneficial. Also if you are in a heavy/assault mech you do need to get involved in the fight. It is tragic to see your team getting bashed to pieces while a freindly Atlas is hiding at long range behind a building not exposing themself to the fight only to get dropped by the enemy team when he is the last one left. You need to contribute both offensively AND defensively, if you aren't taking a lot of damage during rounds consider playing a bit more aggressively and taking some hits for the team - you need to spread the damage around.

Unfortunately PGI's match score system seems to simply award merit primarily based on damage done which is a shame.

[Syllogy]

p00k, on 28 May 2013 - 11:28 PM, said:

spoken like someone trying to gloss over a glaring fault with matchmaking. i guess i need to head to the guides and strategy section too, after rounds like these:
oh right, this is PGI, matchmaker working as intended

Drenaline, on 29 May 2013 - 04:42 AM, said:

Hey Niko how about u actually get in a mech and become a pilot instead of hanging out on the forums making posts trying to sound cool.Then you might actually understand what Pook and a lot of other people are complaining about in regards to MM. And please don't respond about how many countless hours you put in the seat of mech like the devs do. I'll just have to call BS again.

Brilliant idea, grab a sharp stick and poke the guy who happens to be one of just a few that has complete, unrestricted access to your MWO account.

Elo comes down to probability to win or lose. It has nothing to do with skill, ability, or pure bad luck. Learn to play as a team, even when you are pugging, and you might just have a fighting chance.

[p00k]

Syllogy, on 29 May 2013 - 05:20 AM, said:

Brilliant idea, grab a sharp stick and poke the guy who happens to be one of just a few that has complete, unrestricted access to your MWO account.

Elo comes down to probability to win or lose. It has nothing to do with skill, ability, or pure bad luck. Learn to play as a team, even when you are pugging, and you might just have a fighting chance.

if you're afraid to speak out against problems with the game for fear of retaliation from devs, then the game really isn't worth playing

also, considering skill, ability, or pure bad luck affects your probability to win or lose, i'd say elo has *something* to do with skill, ability, or pure bad luck.

[Kraven Kor]

p00k, on 29 May 2013 - 06:54 AM, said:

if you're afraid to speak out against problems with the game for fear of retaliation from devs, then the game really isn't worth playing

also, considering skill, ability, or pure bad luck affects your probability to win or lose, i'd say elo has *something* to do with skill, ability, or pure bad luck.

Nonetheless, calling out a mod like that was, well, a bit rude true or not, and unhelpful overall.

But, as usual around here, go right on being a complete jerk (note: may not apply to whoever I am quoteing here) to everyone that disagrees with you and I am sure you will win them over to your side of the argument. Seems foolproof.

Edited by Kraven Kor, 29 May 2013 - 07:18 AM.

[Raso]

Hammerfinn, on 18 May 2013 - 10:11 PM, said:

They actually have done this, it's called Elo, but it's invisible to players. It assigns you a score based on your wins and losses and the Elo of the other team. When you lose, it goes down, when you win, it goes up, so in theory you should eventually be matched with players who are at your approximate skill-level. It does take time and a lot of matches to get it to where it should be, but it does eventually do pretty well.

This is what I never got about how that works, though. If you're being matched with people far more skilled than you are than even if you do frequently end up dead the rest of your team should be at the very least semi-competent. No single player is that important that he can cause his entire team to lose by simply being present (ok, maybe if he were trying but still). That still leaves 7 other team members on your team who should be better than you and assuming you actually do pull your own weight just a bit it should average out to at least a 70% loss/30 win ratio.

Likewise if there are as many poor players in high ELO brackets as people keep insisting there are then eventually you should see some of these walking, robotic train-wrecks on the other team. You should be be seeing at least as many 8-0 wins as you do 8-0 losses with those being at the extreme end of a parabola displaying your wins and losses.

I've experienced these losing streaks myself, both PUGing and in 4 mans. Law of averages says there's no excuse for them so someone call the math police.

[Xie Belvoule]

You might find this video beneficial.




Suffice to say, if you do well, you will win. If you do poorly, you will lose. You are the deciding factor in whether you win or lose, no one else. I know this from personal experience, when I do poorly, we lose. When I do 600+ damage with 4 or 5 kills, we win. It really is that simple. You can't count on the rest of your team to win the match for you, its up to you alone to win the match for your team. You are the only constant, so you are the only reliably factor in the equation of whether you win or lose.

Edited by Xie Belvoule, 29 May 2013 - 10:22 AM.

[DaZur]

Xie Belvoule, on 29 May 2013 - 10:16 AM, said:

You are the only constant, so you are the only reliably factor in the equation of whether you win or lose.

If I was a dog... I'd dry-hump your leg for posting this.

I've long tried to explain the "own your Elo" philosophy to players for months now... Flipping brilliant.

Kudos.

Edited by DaZur, 29 May 2013 - 10:29 AM.

[Raso]

Xie Belvoule, on 29 May 2013 - 10:16 AM, said:

You might find this video beneficial.




Suffice to say, if you do well, you will win. If you do poorly, you will lose. You are the deciding factor in whether you win or lose, no one else. I know this from personal experience, when I do poorly, we lose. When I do 600+ damage with 4 or 5 kills, we win. It really is that simple. You can't count on the rest of your team to win the match for you, its up to you alone to win the match for your team.

That's a fallacy. Yes, you play a role in weather or not you get better and yes your contribution to each match is important but when there are 7 other people on your team, frankly put, none of you are the team's savior. So what's the deal with the other 7 people on your team? Why can't any one of them do any better? Why are YOU the deciding factor when you're nothing more than 1 of 8 on your team? Weather you live to the end or die quickly, weather you contribute significant damage or not you're still just a single mech you're not meant to carry the whole team. There are seven other people on your team or are just as much the deciding factor as you are. If there are so many poor players in the mid ELO range than odds are there should be several spread through out both teams but that's seldom the case.

This argument is always taken from a personal perspective. It never takes into account the other members of your team (several of which are likely assigned randomly by an algorithm). It's always one side saying "you suck so just get better" while the other side says "I'm better than the other players on my team!" but that's not the problem.

The problem is that while you might be getting better you're still losing several games in a row so your ELO continues to plummet. Were all things averaged out and the algorithm was balanced properly you shouldn't see these 30 game losing streaks. But proud, macho and competitive people are in the habit of refusing to except that out side influences and variables can affect the outcome of our skill. It's why they hate crits so much it's all about "I'm the best because I'm awesome". And that's a great mindset and it's important to have. But don't let that cloud your vision when looking at things.

Something is up and it needs to be addressed. It could simply be that ELO, as implemented, does not work with a game as complex as MWO. Perhaps the complexity of the game's combat mechanics and map layouts make team play much more susceptible to catastrophic domino effects. Who knows. But to simply writing the problem off as "you suck get better" is not the answer. This is a more complicated matter and it should be looked into a something other than bad players crying.

[Sug]

After 2700 games my Winloss ratio is 47/53 with pure pugging. Pretty close to 50/50. Though honestly a 50% chance to win sucks. It just sucks. Why not just sit at my desk and flip a coin.

The only thing that makes it bearable is that most of those losses are 0-8 blowouts where my team got completely rolled and my brain doesn't even register those as actual games. I just block them out.

Hopefully with CW we'll see some real organized gameplay. There's no reason a good team can't have a 70, 80 or even 90% win rate.

[xDeityx]

Why do people on these forums insist on turning Elo into an acronym? What do you think it stands for?

If you want an acronym use ERS for Elo Rating System. Elo is a man's surname.

Anyway...

Xie Belvoule, on 29 May 2013 - 10:16 AM, said:

Suffice to say, if you do well, you will win. If you do poorly, you will lose. You are the deciding factor in whether you win or lose, no one else. I know this from personal experience, when I do poorly, we lose. When I do 600+ damage with 4 or 5 kills, we win. It really is that simple. You can't count on the rest of your team to win the match for you, its up to you alone to win the match for your team. You are the only constant, so you are the only reliably factor in the equation of whether you win or lose.

This is only true over a very large sample of games. It is patently untrue for any single game. I'm sure we've all had plenty of rounds where we dominated the boards but lost the round, or played like crap and got annihilated early but still ended up winning the match.

Sug, on 29 May 2013 - 10:53 AM, said:

After 2700 games my Winloss ratio is 47/53 with pure pugging. Pretty close to 50/50. Though honestly a 50% chance to win sucks. It just sucks. Why not just sit at my desk and flip a coin.

The 50/50 win/loss ratio is a symptom of the goal of Elo, which is to create close games. The idea behind Elo is that close games are much more fun than blowouts. The problem is that we don't have enough of a population for Elo to actually work, so instead of having close games you get games where it's basically your turn to lose or your turn to win.

[Jack Lowe]

Sorry for the text wall, I can't make paragraphs seems I'm suffering from a bug in the forum and it hates my enter key. I'm not gonna tell u to change your play style or bash u for needing to l2p. That's crap, I will ask you to consider a few things. As has been mentioned some people play certain chassis types better than others, they tend to complement their playing style. However each chassis takes some time to grow accustomed to, I still sometimes have trouble the first match or two switching out from my cent to my stalker. When the match gets serious I, and I'm sure u, will work on instinct more than thought. I will find myself expecting my stalker to move and turn like my cent. in extreme circumstances I'll expect totally different weapons to fire because I'm thinking about my cent. weapons layout. Second if I'm having a bad run I notice I tend to get sloppy, most often I become over aggressive. I wind up taking chances that are tactically unwise, they turn out most often to be bad for my health. I also consider the strengths and weaknesses of any build I make. I already envision it's role and how it will become part of a team, even pugs. I try and watch what my group does try and put myself in the position to be most helpful to the team without making myself the sacrificial lamb. I also remember they are pugs and try to ensure I have an out incase they do something.... unexpected. If I see them hammering a target I join in, if I see a weak target I take it out. I will tear a target up on occasion and leave it for a team mate that I know is close by in order to deal with a situation that is dangerous to the entire team, although I don't make it a habit. Finally as the meta changes some mechs become weaker or more difficult to use others easier, I went to a jager with duel gauss because during the last LRM and PPC zerg my cent. was more a target than a useful help in that meta. These are just factors to consider when your having a bad run, nothing more. With all that you'll still have those matches where one or two people just can't wait to see how fast they can improve the enemies K/D and they totally screw you and the team, all you can do is sigh cuss and soldier on, those rare occasions when you pull out an improbable win will be the matches you will remember most fondly with great pride. Good Luck keep fighting the good fight.

Edited by Jack Lowe, 29 May 2013 - 11:07 AM.

[PappySmurf]

sharkbait689, on 18 May 2013 - 09:20 PM, said:

Okay, im going to try to post this without seeming too salty. I just played 9 games and lost 8 of them. A few weeks ago i went on a 20 game losing streak. Neither of those are anomalies, I lose far more than I win. Now before people say its me (even if i were terrible I would think the win ratio would be better than 10%) I almost always pull my weight in matches (i.e. get at least one kill or a few assists at least). However, the vast majority of the time my team gets outplayed. Its frankly getting very irritating. Its not fun to play when you know youre just going to keep losing over and over. A win/loss ratio for a game, for all players, should be 50/50 or thereabouts.

So, my suggestion is, why dont they implement some sort of experience indicator, like how many games/kills/deaths a player has, and assign players accordingly so both teams are equally-ish matched.

I say this because the way it is now, i really dont want to continue playing the game. Ive poured alot of hours into this game, and im a huge MW fan, but losing constantly is just too frustrating to be fun.

Im in the same boat as you but now I quit playing because all I do is crash a lot. But I was thinking maybe for the average players PGI should make a dual mode Stock Mechs for what we have now in Matchmaking and place Custom builds in a Private game mode where players can have private matches and leagues and tournaments that way its more balanced in a way I would prefer playing stock mostly and play custom when I want a higher level of gameplay.To many times I see almost half the team blown away in under a minute and the games become a rout. Being the players after this event is a crazy 8 VS 4 or even worse 8 vs2 at this point I just log out your not even going to get a kill or and damage before your blown apart in 5 seconds.

Edited by PappySmurf, 29 May 2013 - 11:07 AM.

[Demosthones]

Hey man

It sucks that you are not having a good time.. I would suggest looking up the Templars in the merc page http://mwomercs.com/...hool-new-blood/.

We have an in depth initiate program where we pair you 1 on 1 with a Knight Mentor. We use ventrilo, so you would need a mic of some kind. These guys know thier stuff and take a lot of personal time to help out guys just like you. Also when you play with us you will win more than you lose.

Hope to see you out there.

-Demos-

[Sephlock]

You just need to learn how to take charge of a situation.

[mack sabbath]

I just lost 5 in a row today where I got all but two of the kills for once, did the top three damage everytime and NOBODY would cap an empty base before we lost.

One match, we killed 7.

Everyone wants to pad their epeen stats and no matter how much you beg them, at 150kph, they'd rather play with enemy mechs than win.

I too, am about to give this up...2 days, no wins, my assault isn't supposed to leave the fighting and go recap an empty base.

Edited by Die Primate Die, 29 May 2013 - 03:48 PM.