63 replies to this topic

[GrimJim]

With the intro of the Awesome in addition to the Atlas I wonder if the remainder of the Assaults to be announced will all be +30kph ground sloggers (certainly many of the poll selections were 3/5 'Mechs like the King Crab, Highlander, Imp, Stalker, etc.).

This seems likely since the devs seem keen on the idea of "role" combat. Thus all assaults will be heavily armored & armed but slower than everything else on the field, despite the majority of assaults moving like 4/6 heavies (Banshee, Victor, Cyclops, Longbow, Zeus, Goliath, Battlemaster) or in one bizarre case a 5/8 medium (Charger). Certainly many of the heaviest 'Mechs originally broke the "assault mould" and played much differently than their traditional "role" would imply.

Does that mean these assaults won't make an appearance (at least until MASC devices even things out) or if they do, will they have more degraded performance than their lighter counterparts for the sake of "balance"?

(This will be a big deal when the Clans, who averaged +50kph movements appear!)

[Trevnor]

I'm going to assume that once the clans will appear, that most 'mechs would be able to get speed upgrades, even if it is just MASC. I could be wrong, but that's how I see it going. Also, additional 'mechs will be added to the game as time goes on, so we may yet see some of the designs you mentioned. Either way, the Lyrans will always be using Assaults for everything, so it doesn't really matter.

[Grithis]

Not sure what to make of thier selections, speed-wise. Both of the announced mediums are also disappointingly slow. Of what's announced, so far, I'm leaning heavily towards the Dragon. Not my favorite design, but I'll only drop to 64 kph for something more akin to a Marauder. Allowing myself to be slowed to 54 kph would take a very special mech, indeed. Even then.... (shudder).

Edited by Grithis, 30 March 2012 - 10:01 AM.

[Hayden]

I'd still like to see the Charger make the cut. It's faster (5/8 or 54kph/86kph), but only very lightly armed (5 small lasers). It would be fun to see this assault 'mech used in the intended scouting role, and MWO seems to be the perfect place for it.

[Sarriss]

I'm not sure how it will turn out, I'm sort of torn. If you make assaults too unmaneuverable or too slow then they become easily flanked and gunned down missile/laser platforms. However you make them an absolute beast with armour and firepower that's able to keep up with the tactics of a Jenner or Hunchback then they become living nightmares everyone is going to pilot. PGI is in a tough situation, make Assaults threatening and mean enough to warrant being assaults but make them beatable enough that every other class doesn't become useless. I'm sort of forgetting what the OP was asking/worried about but I trust PGI to make something balanced, fun and canon correct enough that in the end it doesn't matter.

[William Petersen]

GrimJim, on 30 March 2012 - 09:48 AM, said:

<OP>

A lot of those faster assaults paid the price in either having only marginally better armour than heavies, or having a relatively limited weapons array. Big engines are *very* heavy for higher-tonnage mechs.

[Seabear]

I do not expect to see blazing fast assaults any time soon. You will see most assaults are in the 3/5 or 4//6 range in the 3050TRO. These mechs are not designed for fast strikes or flanking movements. Other mechs are designed for such purposes. If an assault has the speed of a light or even a medium, the game becomes an arms race with everyone jumping into an assault no matter what the role, and the idea of every mech having a place on the battlefield goes belly up - FAST!

[GrimJim]

William Petersen, on 30 March 2012 - 10:34 AM, said:

A lot of those faster assaults paid the price in either having only marginally better armour than heavies, or having a relatively limited weapons array. Big engines are *very* heavy for higher-tonnage mechs.

Agreed, but their deadweight made them much better in melee combat (I know, I know... but they confirmed DFA & charges) and the 80-90 tonners either had average armor and superior firepower or vice versa (never both due to the speed). Some tradeoffs, making them mediocre assaults but REALLY good heavies (except the Charger). If you're running with mediums and heavies for your opponent you'd usually top them in two of three areas (speed/armor/firepower).

Seriously, would you take a Centurion over a Victor?

(PS: I loved you in Manhunter, dude.)

Edited by GrimJim, 30 March 2012 - 01:22 PM.

[Morashtak]

We've still yet to see a turning radius diagram of the various weight classes.

Most speculation is that the smaller the Mech the tighter the turning radius and maybe even acceleration to top speed.

Superior maneuverability is going to be the make or break difference between choosing the Centurion over the Dragon for me. And it's going to have to be noticeably better not just theoretically better for me to "downgrade" to the Cent.

At this point in time the Cent doesn't pass the smell check.

[Lima Zulu]

Charger without melee ability will be totally fail

[GrimJim]

Morashtak, on 30 March 2012 - 01:31 PM, said:

Superior maneuverability is going to be the make or break difference between choosing the Centurion over the Dragon for me. And it's going to have to be noticeably better not just theoretically better for me to "downgrade" to the Cent.

At this point in time the Cent doesn't pass the smell check.

I'm just visualizing a buch of DCMS troops looking up and seeing a horde of Lyrans charging down the hill in Dragons.

[Watchit]

Personally I would like to see a slower, more heavily armored Assault class mech, I think it would be a fun

[The1WithTheGun]

I think the Stalker would make an ideal Assault mech in this game - with it's diversified weapon loadout it would make a good contrast between the sniper Awesome and brawler Atlas.

Then again - the Zeus is a quintessential Lyran mech - I'd like to see that in there as well.

Edited by The1WithTheGun, 30 March 2012 - 02:00 PM.

[Solis Obscuri]

I'm pretty sure the Ares Convention outlawed both poking and tickling assaults.

[Steamroller Stig]

Grithis, on 30 March 2012 - 10:00 AM, said:

Not sure what to make of thier selections, speed-wise. Both of the announced mediums are also disappointingly slow. Of what's announced, so far, I'm leaning heavily towards the Dragon. Not my favorite design, but I'll only drop to 64 kph for something more akin to a Marauder. Allowing myself to be slowed to 54 kph would take a very special mech, indeed. Even then.... (shudder).

Out of curiosity if speeds are canon based what would be the point of the meds when the dragon could out run, out gun, and out tank them?

[Felbombling]

Something to note would be the fact that PGI has decided to make rear-firing weapons front-firing, so Mechs that would otherwise have rear-mounted weapons to deter little fellas from sneaking around for a back shot no longer have that luxury. I'm pretty sure the Atlas and Centurion had Medium Laser[s] for this reason. This may also tweak the heat burden on said Mechs, as an extra 6 heat from two 'bonus' forward mounted medium lasers were not built into the heatsink totals.

[SMDMadCow]

Steamroller Stig, on 30 March 2012 - 03:49 PM, said:

Out of curiosity if speeds are canon based what would be the point of the meds when the dragon could out run, out gun, and out tank them?

Because it cant. While the Dragon is quick there are plenty of mediums that can out gun it - mostly in the 55 ton range, and it only has 10 tons of armor. But its a heavy not assault.

I'd like to see the Zeus and Banshee personally.

[Atlai]

Lt Trevnor, on 30 March 2012 - 09:55 AM, said:

I'm going to assume that once the clans will appear, that most 'mechs would be able to get speed upgrades, even if it is just MASC. I could be wrong, but that's how I see it going. Also, additional 'mechs will be added to the game as time goes on, so we may yet see some of the designs you mentioned. Either way, the Lyrans will always be using Assaults for everything, so it doesn't really matter.

So True

Edited by Mason West, 30 March 2012 - 05:37 PM.

[The1WithTheGun]

Steamroller Stig, on 30 March 2012 - 03:49 PM, said:

Out of curiosity if speeds are canon based what would be the point of the meds when the dragon could out run, out gun, and out tank them?

In universe/fluff? Because mediums are cheaper. You can build more "specialized" mediums than you can "generalist" heavies - and the Dragon is a "barely heavy" generalist - built to perform many roles, from fire support to interdiction to harrassment, etc.

While individually it performs these roles in a mediocre way (and several mediums can outperform it in those specific capacities), remember that the Dragon is built to be used with horde tactics - whole batallions of Dragons that can self-support each other.

So in the board game mediums have their place - as does the Dragon if used properly.

As for this game? I'm guessing the mediums will still be cheaper. But as for tactics? Not sure how everything will work out untill we all start playing.

[GDL Irishwarrior]

Well, out of our current choices, we have:
Atlas - Slow, heavily-armed and -armored. Ideal for brawling, but it can deal decent damage at any range.
Awesome - Slow, heavily-armed and -armored direct fire support 'Mech

So, things like the Stalker, Zeus or Banshee would be largely redundant - our current assault 'Mechs can do the same things, and in some cases do them better. The weight class needs something new. I figure more maneuverability and/or a specialization in command would be perfect.

Personally, I support the Cyclops as the next new assault (because it has both extra speed and a command specialization not yet seen in ANY of our 'Mechs), and the Victor after that (because of the maneuverability granted by its jump jets). If those are put in, I figure anything's up for grabs afterwards; we just need to have something unique before we start adding assaults that do the same things as what we already have.

Edited by GDL Irishwarrior, 30 March 2012 - 06:26 PM.